Glass basics. > [YouTube] Budget Vs. Quality Rifle Scopes (embed)
Some guy that thinks he is a Dinosaur, Sawry. Sniper 101 link for the lazy crowd. > [YouTube] SNIPER 101 Part 1 - Introduction - Rex Reviews (embed) Playlist. > [YouTube] SNIPER 101 Part 1 - Introduction - Rex Reviews (embed)
>jbmballistics Shooterscalculator/com is goo d for you guys that want a more streamlined one. It is going to depened on what your barrel likes. 17g might hold a more open pattern than 168g. Also you should re-zero from lot# to lot# since all the dies don't make the same production runs.
>So you think it will like the 168 more? Not necessarily. 168g is just the drops in that photo.
It's like this. You and I could both pick up to rifles that are in sequential numerical production order. Yours may like 175g while mine shoots 168g in a tighter pattern. It just happens like that. The best advice I can give is by a bunch of brands and grains and see what does best.
Neat little card. >I too want to see this channel WugWus WDHMBT
Yeah I'm going for a nice big variety. Found a local indoor range that goes out to 100 yards and that rents sleds. Going to go end of this coming week or the week after this coming one. I would prefer to zero at 100m, but I should be fine to zero at 100 yards so long as I correct for it right?
>WDHMBT >none of your youtube links work >38341273 (You) Are you going to be shooting out of a sled? If you are firing prone zero prone, same for sitting. 100yd/m is good, you are always going to be dialing up and don't have to worry about dialing down or to stops if shooting closer. Some guns are one inch guns, some barrels are 1/4inch. If you just plan on shooting plates don't worry about "chasing" a zero if two out of three are close the same goes for five shots.
>/prg/ started by /arg/ proving /arg/ knows fuck all but mag dumping at 5 yards Fixed
Jaxon Hill
>can't easily dial paralax wat
Ian Garcia
No, I have a 26" 308 that shoots 168gr projectiles into 5/8 minute ten round groups at 2810fps... No amount of fag talk will make a 16" barrel not retarded...
Brody Perry
Objective paralax adjustment is pretty much garbage since you have to lift your head from shooting position.
Carter Ortiz
I always shoot at the same range on any given day, it's pretty much a non issue for me
Alexander Miller
>No >fag talk We don't care what caliber you shoot or what your preferred barrel is here in /PSG/. We don't care about your groups unless you are uploading a picture of them. You can stay and help others are you can come off like a "hur dur fudd" it doesn't really matter in the long run.
>Shut up I don't have a Anti-cant device you called me. I have also made long range shots in the real world that actually count without them when they matter. Pro-tip kids just aim a half Mil right on your 1k+ shots in the Northern Hemisphere.
Or you know, post some groups instead of truck bed pictures for your facebook friends.. That sun shade could have been replaced with $3 worth of duct tape.
>$3 worth of duct tape. Military spending ladies and gentlemen...
Ayden Smith
.50 This is very true. However if we want to help others they sholudn't need to spend $40 on their no scope specials.
Lincoln Cook
Sorry about the links. There wasn't a /prg/ thread and so I just copied the content from the OP of the archived one.
There are a lot of 16" .308s dude.
Why precision shooting as opposed to precision rifle general? Is anyone doing precision shooting with anything other than a rifle? Not trying to start shit, just curious. I'm new here.
Can you do everything by paper and book? I prefer not to rely on my phone.
>Sorry about the links. It was more out of curiosity. A WhatGrip?WhatStock? satirical channel would be better than a GrandFlannel one. >Why precision shooting as opposed to precision rifle general? Anyone shooting "precision' is shooting with a one MOA if hunting or greater if plate punching, i didn't pick the name I just lurk the threads. >Bad ass. It was ok, the mortars stopped and the driver and two others went, well they went wherever they go. That all being said, "don't chase a zero" you will burn yourself out doing it. Just find some ammo your girl will eat and keep feeding her it. Save the ammo lot numbers and re-zero every now and then.
Will 200 .308 grain subsonic stabilize sufficiently out of a 1:10 16" not to cause baffle strikes?
Thanks!
Damn. What platforms were you using? Yeah I'm just going to zero at 100yards, then make my tables based off of that even though I want to do everything in mils and meters. Like I said I'm super new to this. Why save the ammo lot numbers? Just to keep track?
>What platforms were you using? M107 Baffle strikes are caused by not aligning a suppressor to the barrel. You should save the lot numbers to keep track yes. It is like building a dope book. You are looking at hundreds of millions of rounds produced conservatively. > armymunitions.tpub.com/mm0145a/Lot-Number-8.htm
With that being said your "killers and straight lead dealers" are sometimes using a 1.5-2MOA rifle" and if they can you can.
>Why save the ammo lot numbers? Not that dumb ass, but different lot numbers can be produced on different days by different people on different machinery so it must be qa/qc'd by you... After seeing some "snipers" shoot, I wonder how 90% of them don't die... Probably the close air support radio calls...
Christian Collins
How critical to developing my dope book is an accurate muzzle velocity figure for my ammo? What if I don't have access to a chrono and can't find the exact ammo, lot number and all that I'm shooting with the same barrel length and gas system, suppressor stuff etc?
I think the M107 is so freaking bad. I thought it was more for anti material stuff though? I've heard that .50 isn't good for precision This might come off as an awfully ignorant question so forgive me, but with the 107 do you think a well trained shooter could put multiple rounds in a slow moving car at distance? 700m? 1000m?
Dominic Edwards
>mils and meters Are easy. If you can count Ten Pennies in a Dime and Ten Dimes in a Dollar, you have mastered Mils.
That is it.
There is no secret formula. Mils are Dimes and MOA adjustments are Quarters. Is one finer? Yes, However you have to look at what you are doing with the math. There is always a math that is more "precise" specifically when we start getting into fractions, however for plate punching, hunting, and more so Tactical Interdiction, a MIL spread is fine. >different machinery Is the key.
Probably just different brass head stamp... As an inverse to 223, 308 is generally higher pressure to 7.62x51.
Jose Price
>slow moving car at distance? 700m? 1000m? Yes of course it has still one of the best BC's to date 6.5 might have some kick however right now no one is dropping 338/300Norma for it. However we were tasked with a over watch area an told we could take what we wanted to over watch that area. it sucked it was avg 130ish F, and you are correct the 107 has shitty ergonomics with relations to ballistic however the big green is learning along the way.
Liam Johnson
>see /prg/ in catalogue and decide to check it out on a whim >minor shitposting but generally good info and contributions from a real world end user
Can't believe I stumbled onto a quality general thread on Jow Forums...
Kevin Wilson
How critical to developing my dope book is an accurate muzzle velocity figure for my ammo? What if I don't have access to a chrono and can't find the exact ammo, lot number and all that I'm shooting with the same barrel length and gas system, suppressor stuff etc?
I have never handled an M107, I was just saying that I think they are freaking bad ass. So you would say that a trained shooter could put multiple rounds on a slow moving vehicle at 700m or 1000m with one though? I saved your images to, very interesting.
Gavin Taylor
Super noob question
For getting an idea for how accurate my DMR is should I do 3 or 5 shot groups? What about 4 shot groups?
What about 5 three shot groups then one 5 shot group to eat up a box of 20 rounds?
Im I shoot 3-5 for zero, then 2 5rnd, and 1 10rnd, just for my books. I have something like a page each of different boxes of ammo for my rifle and scope. All from cold bore, and about a cool time the amount it takes to walk down and back from my target. Once I figure out what ammo groups the best out to 100yds, I get another box and shoot them out to 200, 300, all the way out to 900yds, which is as far as I can shoot in my region. For my 308 rifle, I usually only shoot out to 600 max, anything further and I switch out to my 300winmag.
William Garcia
Sierra match king is a different bullet from a different manufacturer federal uses, out of the 5 rifles I have, none of them shoot good distance groups with matchking. They are strictly target shooting bullets because they are thin as hell jacket. You can always try gameking, but that shit doesnt group well for me past 400.
If youre going for pure accurracy and smallest groups as far as you can shoot, stick with anything that is normal match ammo.
If you want stuff for hunting, not even joking, remington corelokt has been my go to. Even though it dirties up the rifle like a motherfucker.
Colton Cook
Thanks for the input, I'll skip the matchking then! Not hunting hear, just trying to get a measurement of my build's precision.
Mils are dimensionless, my dude. You can mil with yards just as well as meters. It's an angular measure, not an SI unit of distance.
Benjamin Cook
lmao, same dude, just answering as i scroll up. Knowing your numbers takes alot of guess work out of what distance you can shoot out to. But its not entirely necessary if you are able to use your own targets at the range or out in the wilderness or wherever you shoot. Just get some phone books, place them out minimum 500yds, if it can pierce 2-3inches, youre getting enough out of the bullet to be effective at whatever ranges. There are better ways of testing, but thats cheap and the first thing that came to mind lol.
When you start making your own loads, I highly recommend getting your own chrono so you dont waste ammo.
Make sure to do your testing with and without supressor because it will definitely be different.
Wyatt Roberts
Is it correct that a hotter temperature bullet travels faster or slower?
I understand that, I was just curious as to whether or not a 100 yard vs. 100m zero would then affect my dope, make my adjustments less "even" if my adjustments are mils and my ranging done in meters.
>Just get some phone books, place them out minimum 500yds, if it can pierce 2-3inches, youre getting enough out of the bullet to be effective at whatever ranges. I'm not a hunter, but thank you. I was more concerned with accurate muzzle velocity numbers just for purposes of correctly developing dope data.
Justin Flores
Ya, without a chrono, youre gonna be guesstimating proper numbers when plugging numbers in. So it might just be better to figure out your ranges, and just record your holdovers or however many mils or moa youre moving to hit at specific distances. If you are able to, set up as many targets as you can in 25 or 50yd increments if youre really OCD about it like I was before I bought my first chrono.
And yes, the hotter the air temperature, the less dense the air is, and the faster your bullet will travel.
Since it seems youre new to long distance precision shooting, just be realistic with your groups.
Eli Gonzalez
>Hotter the air is I meant hotter temperature bullets, like the bullet itself being hotter. >Developing dope without chrono through trial and error I'm not going to be doing any hand-loading, so will be using all factory ammo. Hopefully I can find some relatively accurate data for the factory ammo I settle on out of a setup similar to my own. I guess I'm wondering how similar the setup will have to be for the factory ammo muzzle velocity data to be accurate enough to develop good dope? Like a bolt gun vs. an AR10, suppressor or not, etc.
William Johnson
Like hotter powder? The velocity will increase.
The only issue I see with trying to compare your rifles data with whats stated on the ammos site for their numbers, are that there are so many variables, of course you got barrel length, but then you dont know thickness, twist, muzzle device, shooting environment, etc. But since youre sticking with factory ammo, trial and error will work just fine. Just do what I recommended with the one box of each match ammo to figure out which factory ammo to stock up on and do testing on first.
I dont have a semi auto precision rifle myself, just a bolt rifle with a good chassis and scope, but my friend has a SW mp10 in 308 with a pencil barrel, and his has the same barrel length as mine, but records higher velocities than mine. However my groups are tighter at further ranges. So what im trying to get at, is there are alot of variations between everything and the numbers on the box are just what they get with their rifles.
>rem 700 sps aac sd 20in 1:10 308 heavy contour barrel >xlr element chasss >precision armament scope base >seekins rings >athlon ares btr 2-15x >harris bipod
Ive only been able to shoot out to 700 yards, im getting sub moa with 175gr hornady match at 5 1/2 inch group average, with the largest being 6 3/4 inch.
I think ive been lucky with this rifle, I got it for $250 out of a dudes trunk. Guy never shot it, and it only had surface scratches on the barrel, crown was perfect. Got the scope for cheap from my buddy, and the chassis was the most expensive purchase for me. This is a designated long range rifle to shoot prone and from a bench. I have a seperate hunting rifle. I kind of wish I had it in 6.5cm, but it was too cheap to pass on at the time.
Grayson Turner
How's ppu brass? My options are getting ppu ammo for 60c a round, hornady for 1.30, or improved Norma for 1.60. Definitely not a sharpshooter or anything, but I'd like to improve and reach out farther.
Oliver Ramirez
Ive seen the ppu "match" ammo connect at 900yd regularly. It seems fairly consistent.
Parker Campbell
I've always had good experience with ppu.
Andrew Evans
Hot damn, gotta get myself a Tac-50
Liam Smith
>not a Browning M2 Casual
Kevin Butler
How can you tell if a group sucks because of the gun/ammo, or if it sucks because it's you?
What are reasonable calibers for mile plus shots? We have pushed out to 1300 yards, but I ran out of scope elevation on my 6.5 creedmoor and velocity on my 308. I bought a 40MOA rail that should get me out to 1500-1600 where my loading will crap out. My friend found a place 6 miles from his property where we can shoot a mile so I may need more gun... He is using 338lapua and the other guy is building a 7mm rem mag... I'm not as financially affluent as they are so spending $3a shot isn't really an option.
Hey guys, Can someone tell me if I'm on the right track or not? I'm looking into building a 6.5 rifle from Howa parts, wondering if I should put my money in a better place or not. I might be shooting out to 2k once the local range opens up.
Barreled Action Var Hvy Blue 6.5 Creedmoor 26" #6 Threaded $390 Howa 1500 S/A 180-Xray Chassis Black $590 Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard SA 20 MOA scope base, $50 Vortex rings, $40 Vortex PST 6-24x30, Illum, FPF, EBR-1 MRAD, $750 any anti-cant device, $30 grand total just under $1900
Juan Powell
.50 bmg 300 win-mag 408 Chey-Tac 416 Barrett
The 7mm, 6.5 and 338 you mentioned are good choices as well. However, long-range shooting is an inherently expensive option to an already expensive hobby, if youre shying away from spending 3/shot get into reloading
Leo Rodriguez
If you re-use brass you can get 338 lapua with less expensive match bullets under $1/per
Adam Campbell
I already load for 308 and 6.5 but supply costs for those is a lot lower. I wonder if I could get a single shot 50bmg... That could be cool...
Luis Rodriguez
Quality ammo will all shoot good enough. But you'll have to just shoot a bunch to find out what your gun likes the most. Trial and error, my friend. That's the fun part.
Ryder Nguyen
Cool. It's still just 308 tho. Like being the smartest kid that has to wear a helmet to school.
Mason Johnson
That utv looks sharp man!
Adrian Phillips
The gen 1 pst doesn't really have enough elevation adjustment. Look at the sfwa options. I like my fixed 16 more than my gen 6-24 pat. Also buy a 20+ moa rail to get more elevation and be optically centered at longer ranges.
Daniel Flores
168 gr has higher velocity, so it is less affected by wind, but will become trans sonic sooner than 175 gr.
175 gr will go further but the time in flight will leave it in the wind much longer, making it difficult to call.
The best for you depends on your shooting conditions and distance. As a general rule, if you can get there with 168 gr, use that.
Both have their place in the 308 bullet selection, neither is as effective at range as 6.5 Creedmoor.
William Harris
Some people are fine with 3, some think that 5 is needed to really say. And define accuracy ? Are you just shooting at 100 yards or something? how good of a shooter are you makes a whole lot of difference.
Adrian Nelson
Oh, you already listed the rail, my bad. Do the howas use 700 chassis?
Jack Nguyen
>Thoughts on zeroing with M80 ball if that is what I'll be using the most?
Zero with 165/175 (whichever you prefer) then mark your turrets or take a picture.
Then adjust for M80 and cap the turrets, or take a picture with your phone and leave it there.
That's what I do; I just use hold overs in my reticle for M80 since I'm fucking around for grins when I shoot it.
When I'm using FGMM 168 gr I want to have my zero set and dial off of it.
Easton Edwards
No but MDT makes some very nice Howa chassis. Bell and Carlson also makes a great stock.
They're some of the best kept secrets in precision shooting (Howas)
>Pinned barrel/recevier >CHF barrel >machined recoil lugs >comes with factory 2 stage match trigger >affordable detachable box mag kits
The mags are the only weak link, they're a little chintzy. A good chasses will convert them to AICS for pmags though.
Nicholas Jones
16" 308 gas guns with suppressor are SO HOT right now.
What easy to find .22lr ammo is the most consistent? Only tried CCI standard and federal automatch through Former was alright but the latter was a joke
Caleb Jackson
CCI is generally the best big box ammo.
You have to get into serious Gucci to get significant improvements: Lapua, Swarktlip, Eley, Olin Bal, et al.
Elijah Richardson
I do really well with 40gr Winchester Super X, oddly enough.Given my experiences I've had with literally any other Winchester ammo in any other caliber, I'd have never thought it would perform worth a shit.
Nolan Campbell
My LGS always has a bunch of bricks of Eley of various kinds, I'll probably pick one up next time. Huh, that's interesting. I'll try that too since it's so cheap.
Bentley Walker
>LGS always has a bunch of bricks of Eley of various kinds
You have a ballin' LGS tbqh user.
Daniel Smith
Cci standard for cheap, greentag for more expensive you can actually find. I'm not sure if you can still get wolf match or not but that was good and cheap. Blazer is usually on the top of my good and cheap list but I haven't seen bulk amounts of it lately...
Gabriel Carter
Yeah they're breddy cool. You'll get some attitude at first but if they start recognizing you as a regular and not a cunt they'll make you deals, throw free shit at you and do you favors all the time. I didn't even know blazer made 22lr
Michael Hernandez
I imagine this is a common question, but should I as a beginner to long range shooting get a .308 or 6.5CM rifle?
Joshua White
Both have their pros and cons.
The 308 will have a lot more barrel life and cheap ammo for you to learn on.
The 6.5 CM will be easier to shoot and more capable of you have the range to shoot.
You won't go wrong with either, but plan to re-barrel the 6.5CM probably right when you feel comfortable shooting it. Or plan to sell the 308 and buy a 6.5 CM at the same point.
Elijah Davis
6.5 is easy mode, you will learn more about judging distance and wind with the 308 and unless you are really hot roding it, the 308 barrel should last forever. Wait for the cabelas savage 12fv sale to coincide with the savage $100 rebate and buy both...
Ian Gomez
I was thinking of getting one of the heavy barreled Savage 12s in .308, so changing calibers is relatively easy if I understand how their barrel nut system works. I was more or less thinking, like you said, .308 and upgrading to CM after getting better.
Charles Ward
When does that rebate normally come up? That's exactly the rifle I was thinking of.
Ian Allen
some people say 3 shot groups are to test the gun, 5 shots to test the person and 10 to test for everything
the case wall on the 762x51 is thicker compared to the 308 so if you use that to reload with you will not be able to use the same load data that you would for normal 308 stuff.
