I had an interesting conservation with my city's police firearms instructor today...

>we stopped a criminal
>he lived to trial

I can see how cops would think that's a bad thing.

You should ask your friend if they use regulations FBI q style targets for qualification, or just kenneled dogs.

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.45 has less recoil than 9mm

How is that relevant? If you are reloading and you aren't behind cover then you are in an incredibly bad situation. It doesn't matter how high speed you are.
It's all about being able to put a round into your target's vitals before you need to reload.

Your daily reminder that ballistics gelatin is an outdated testing medium and the test mean NOTHING
It's like putting a NASCAR on the same rope and pulley system they used to measure horsepower a few hundred years ago.

I do ballistics as part of my job, so here's the tl;dr
>I carry a 9x19 124gr standard pressure HST
>.45 ACP is fine, the differences are scientifically negligible at best
>a gunfight is not a laboratory environment with controls, CRAZY shit happens. I've seen bullets of multiple calibers bounce off belt buckles, and heavy clothing. I've seen a 7.62x39 123gr FMJ hit a guy in the wrist eviscerate his forearm and blow a fragment of his ulna up through the top of his skull killing him instantly. I've seen a man survive an unopened wad of #4 buck to the face from 2 feet away, I've seen a .25 auto go through a windshield ricochet off the fabric interior roof, and travel into a child in the backseat in a baby seat; please attempt to recreate these with your youtube so called "ballistics gel" tests.
>bottom line for self defense -9mm in modern hollow point loadings is decent at everything. Is it the best at anything? You need to take into account your mission objectives. Barrier penetration; glass, wood, IIIA body armor, background, overpenetration, underpenetration, chance of ricochet, undertrained operator flinch, muzzle flash, blast, terminal effects, muzzle velocity, temporary and permanent cavitation, and so on...
>tl;dr you need to consider the application for your tool. There are better handgun rounds for every one of these applications, but 9mm basically gets a B+ to C- in ALL of them. A passing grade in all subjects, here's your diploma.

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So you are a spaz that cant reload in under a second and needs 20 plus rounds to hit center mass.
Got it.

What is your personal opinion on the 44mm Backface Signature that NIJ currently allows?

Confirmed noguns

Do you get food poisoning a lot?

It's pretty much toward the bottom end of the spectrum of as far as subcutaneous tissue kinetic protection goes, but it will almost* certainly stop what its rated for. NIJ tests are pretty extensive, basically all that means is that jacket will never touch your skin if all goes as planned.
*I say almost because again- crazy shit happens. Also, most people, not even law enforcement people dont know that fabric vests expire. Despite being clearly printed on them.

I was more curious if you thought the 44mm allowance was too much - that it allowed too much Blunt Force Trauma. I am under the impression that the DoD is ignoring the 44mm standard and is going entirely their own direction at this point because they think that 44mm is too much.

I couldn't really give you a straight answer on that because I've never been shot. Pain is subjective.

I will say that it is basically the bare minimum, so my instinct is to lean towards yes. It does what its advertised to do, but I know there have been officers who have lost internal organs and permanent injury being shot while wearing those vests. However, they would be dead had they not been. I'm not an expert on armor, terminal is my field.

>I'm not an expert on armor
Your limited scope comeback is appreciated.

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If part of the past reaso to switch to .45aarp was because of one guy and him being cooked up on drugs, then id suggest moving away as far as possible from your city

>shame the man SURVIVED! to stand trial...
Yeah, this shit right here is what’s wrong with fucking cops. Judge, Jury and executioner, huh?

How many magazine can you carry?

>Suspect survived 60 shots
While that is crazy, I would love to know how many were actually in vital, non-limb locations. Police officers are, in general mediocre shots.
Despite the anomalies, that you have witnessed, they are just that - anomalies. You can’t plan for things like that. The most important thing for a cartridge to do is penetrate. Period. Don’t let anyone tell you different. Cavitation or expansion is secondary. Both of those are superior in cartridges like the .40 S&W and the .45 Acp and no amount of FBI testing or “weird shit I’ve just seen” will change physics. If you can’t handle the recoil, switch to a metal frame gun and workout. Don’t blame the cartridge.

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>60 bullets penetrate a man
>he doesn't bleed to death

bullshit in its rawest form

Master Sgt. Roy P. Benavidez would like a word with you

>On the morning of 2 May 1968, a 12-man Special Forces Reconnaissance Team was inserted by helicopters in a dense jungle area west of Loc Ninh, Vietnam to gather intelligence information about confirmed large-scale enemy activity.

>This area was controlled and routinely patrolled by the North Vietnamese Army.

> After a short period of time on the ground, the team met heavy enemy resistance, and requested emergency extraction.

> Three helicopters attempted extraction, but were unable to land due to intense enemy small arms and anti-aircraft fire.

>Sergeant BENAVIDEZ was at the Forward Operating Base in Loc Ninh monitoring the operation by radio when these helicopters returned to off-load wounded crew members and to assess aircraft damage.

> Sergeant Benavidez voluntarily boarded a returning aircraft to assist in another extraction attempt.

> Realizing that all the team members were either dead or wounded and unable to move to the pickup zone, he directed the aircraft to a nearby clearing where he jumped from the hovering helicopter, and ran approximately 75 meters under withering small arms fire to the crippled team.

>Prior to even reaching the team's position he was wounded in his right leg, face, and head.

> Despite these painful injuries, he took charge, repositioning the team members and directing their fire to facilitate the landing of an extraction aircraft, and the loading of wounded and dead team members.

> He then threw smoke canisters to direct the aircraft to the team's position.

> Despite his severe wounds and under intense enemy fire, he carried and dragged half of the wounded team members to the awaiting aircraft.

> He then provided protective fire by running alongside the aircraft as it moved to pick up the remaining team members.

> As the enemy's fire intensified, he hurried to recover the body and classified documents on the dead team leader.

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>When he reached the leader's body, Sergeant Benavidez was severely wounded by small arms fire in the abdomen and grenade fragments in his back.

> At nearly the same moment, the aircraft pilot was fatally wounded, and his helicopter crashed.

>Although in extremely critical condition due to his multiple gunshot and shrapnel wounds, Sergeant Benavidez secured the classified documents and made his way back to the flaming wreckage, where he aided the wounded out of the overturned aircraft, and gathered the survivors into a defensive perimeter.

> Under increasing enemy automatic weapons and grenade fire, he moved around the perimeter distributing water and ammunition to his weary men, reinstilling in them a will to live and fight.

>Facing a buildup of enemy opposition with a beleaguered team, Sergeant BENAVIDEZ mustered his strength, began calling in danger close air strikes and directed the fire from supporting gunships to suppress the enemy's fire and so permit another extraction attempt.

>He was wounded again in his thigh by small arms fire while administering first aid to a wounded team member just before another extraction helicopter was able to land.

> His indomitable spirit kept him going as he began to ferry his comrades to the craft.

> On his second trip with the wounded, he was clubbed from behind by an enemy soldier. His jaw and skull were shattered.

> In the ensuing hand-to-hand combat, he sustained additional bayonet wounds to his head, face, and arms before killing his adversary

> He then continued under devastating fire to carry the wounded to the helicopter. It was later found out that in the confusion he loaded two enemy bodies into the helicopter because "I couldn't see a damn thing, I was bleeding from my eyes, and I wanted to make damn sure I didn't leave anyone behind"

>Upon reaching the aircraft, he spotted and killed two enemy soldiers who were rushing the craft from an angle that prevented the aircraft door gunner from firing upon them.

>With little strength remaining, he made one last trip to the perimeter to ensure that all classified material had been collected or destroyed, and to bring in the remaining wounded.

>Only then, in extremely serious condition from numerous wounds and loss of blood, did he allow himself to be pulled into the extraction aircraft.

>Sergeant BENAVIDEZS' gallant choice to join voluntarily his comrades who were in critical straits, to expose himself constantly to withering enemy fire, and his refusal to be stopped despite numerous severe wounds, saved the lives of at least eight men.

>He was evacuated to the base camp, examined, and thought to be dead. As he was placed in a body bag among the other dead in body bags, he was suddenly recognized by a friend who called for help. A doctor came and examined him and he too believed Benavidez was dead. The doctor was about to zipper up the bag when Benavidez managed to spit in his face, alerting the doctor that he was still alive. Benavidez had a total of 37 separate bullet, bayonet, and grenade wounds from the six hour fight with the enemy battalion

____________________________________

>Prior to his attachment to the 5th SFG

>He stepped on a land mine during a patrol and was evacuated to the United States, where doctors at Fort Sam Houston concluded he would never walk again and began preparing his medical discharge papers.

>As Benavidez noted in his 1981 MOH acceptance speech, stung by the diagnosis, as well as flag burnings and media criticism of the US military presence in Vietnam he saw on TV, he began an unsanctioned nightly training ritual in an attempt to redevelop his ability to walk.

>Getting out of bed at night (against doctors orders), Benavidez would crawl using his elbows and chin to a wall near his bedside and (with the encouragement of his fellow patients, many of whom were permanently paralyzed and/or missing limbs), he would prop himself against the wall and attempt to lift himself unaided, starting by wiggling his toes, then his feet, and then eventually (after several months of excruciating practice that by his own admission often left him in tears) pushing himself up the wall with his ankles and legs.

>After over a year of hospitalization, Benavidez walked out of the hospital in July 1966, with his wife at his side, determined to return to combat in Vietnam.

>Benavidez returned to Fort Bragg and began training for the elite Army Special Forces.

>Once qualified and accepted, he became a member of the 5th Special Forces Group; and the Studies and Observations Group (SOG).

>Despite constant pain from his wounds, he returned to South Vietnam in January 1968.

youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs
youtube.com/watch?v=VIJzqDBMObQ

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More than enough.

what a fucking legend