Chinese equipment

Honest thoughts on Chinese military equipment.

Is it good or shit?

Speaking more broadly do you think the Chinese military is a good fighting force?

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equipment good
>mfw you even asked if the Chinese have a Good fighting force

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God, I freaking want one of those, even if they are shitty. Thanks for the import ban, Blowjob Bill. You leafs need to count your blessings of easy access to chinkshit.

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All their kit can be described as "Good enough"

The QBZ is a perfect example. It's light, small, reliable, decently accurate, retard-easy to use, while also being dirt cheap and easy to manufacture.

It's got no bells and whistles but literally who cares? That shit's wasted on a Chicom conscript anyway. It flings an intermediate cartridge as well as anything else.

The ergos aren't the best but you can make it work.

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For a conscript army a bullpup is perfect, it fills all roles while being very maneuverable. The trigger isn't bad due to being striker fired, better than most M4 and M16 triggers I've used.
>t.Marueen that crossed trained
Ergos are trash though, but the Chinese designers were told to make the fire selector separate from the safety, the concern being that automatic fire would be accidentally used in a firefight, wasting ammunition. For the longest time, Chinese infantry doctrine was focused on accurate rifle fire, then overwhelming the enemy with massed bayonet charge.

Lolwut
What fucking AR triggers have you even used?

A light, handy bullpup is great for the small chinese mechanized troopers it's meant for, definitely.

>Ergos are trash though, but the Chinese designers were told to make the fire selector separate from the safety

It's not though. The fire selector is a safe/semi/auto switch like anything else.
But it's in the BUTTSTOCK.

The designer was an engineer, but not a *Firearms* engineer. That this placement was unusually awkward probably didn't even occur to him until it went into field trials, and by then it was too late to do any radical redesigns because they wanted them in the hands of troopers in time for Hong Kong.

The updated version, the QBZ-95-1 has a fire control hand thumb-switch like most modern rifles.

I wouldn't describe the trigger as "better" because it has no break.

But it's not bad. It's very light, very smooth, and the rifle just goes off at some point in the pull, which might be be better for under-trained troopers. I don't think that's an intentional feature, though.

Try military M4 and M16A4 triggers, those are REALLY BAD. We snap in for a reason.

>have cheap yet high quailty improved AK that has a lower MOA than a M16A4 and can be modified to be equipped as such
>replace it with an unergonomic bullpup thing in strange ching chong round
Why?

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Calling it now, QBZ-95 is gonna be the new AKM in a decade or two and we're gonna start seeing it fighting itself in every third-world shithole from Mexico to Mali.

>tfw Canadian
It's nice, but nothing too special.

>fire selector
Sorry, bit drunk right now firing HAND not fire selector.

Thanks for confirming what everyone else has already said

You're welcome, I own one so just ask if you have any questions.

I've been thinking as such, and here's my version.
Type 99
Virtually identical to the Type 95, the only change is the magazine and caliber to 7.62x39mm and using all AKM style mags.

From what I've heard, the reason for the straneg ching-chong round is the same reason why
won't happen.

Word on the street is that PLA Generals were selling their stockpiles of x39 on the black market. Solution: Use a weirdo ching-chong round and not sell it to anyone, so there will be no buyers.

Their military export versions are in 5.56, and only a few countries have picked them up, like Pakistan, Sudan, and Cambodia I think.

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The 5.8x42mm was selected so in case of invasion any enemy can't use their ammunition, and the Chinese were preparing for war aganst a enemy with body armor.

That's the official line, yes

This, milspec M16/M4 triggers are the worst I've ever used.

Partly because they're not very good quality, partly because nobody ever cleans the trigger assembly on most M16s and M4s that get issued to non-SOF peeps since it'sapparently too complex for PFC Schmuckatelli to do on his own without breaking something.

The trigger on the M4 I got issued at my first duty station was so bad you could hear it creak as you pulled it.

Brought it up to our armory after having several others double-check it and having it almost cause me to unk on the range, turns out the whole assembly was rusted out because nobody bothered to clean it ever.

Yeah I was thinking some monkey model export version in a more common caliber since the Chinese have now started pushing their newer military hardware to Africa pretty heavily.

>hey let's change our ammunition, requiring massive amounts of research, retooling and years of production to produce!
>wait why ching?
>because chong is selling all his ammo, and he bought a yacht full of blow and Thai Hookers
>fuck chong
Please tell me you aren't this stupid, cause this is some U.S. Army levels of stupid.

The Vietnamese Army kicked the Chinese Army's ass

>Norinco was literally making arms deals with American gangs for like RPGs and shit iirc.
This is an exaggeration. They were making direct deals for shit with some shady people but the worst of it was a few full auto AKs.

What they really got slammed for was not going through the proper channels when they did the sales, not what they were selling.

>preparing for war against an enemy with body armor
Their soviet-designed x39 was more than adequate for body armor of that era, and I seriously doubt the 5.8 is magically going to be going through modern plate carriers, just like every other intermediate. I'm willing to bet that corruption was a big factor, along with domestic production PR, and wanting to get away from Soviet designs because fuck you Stalinists we Maoist now.

I wonder how long it will be until we start seeing people shoot at American troops with those. I'm surprised more chinese weapons havent popped up in the ME, mainly rockets, old AK-knockoffs, and mortars in the hands of insurgents.

Their bullpups are shit, their military is designed to either kill their own people or fight against Taiwan/Vietnam/India and even then they probably wouldn't come close to winning.

The J20 turned out to be a 4.5 low observable strike bomber with shitty engines that cant super-cruise.

Their new carrier is another training carrier and it has a ramp...

Their subs are loud as fuck.

They lack effective ASW platforms in significant enough numbers.

Their DD's are shit.

the list goes on and on

>I'm surprised more chinese weapons havent popped up in the ME, mainly rockets, old AK-knockoffs, and mortars in the hands of insurgents.
The Chinese need plausible deniability right now since they're heavily tied to Western business and trade. That's why we aren't seeing their top-of-the-line shit in the hands of our enemies yet.

Also, places like Afghanistan still have stockpiles of the older Soviet-era weapons systems so until those run dry we won't be seeing any big changes.

>hey let's change our ammunition, requiring massive amounts of research, retooling and years of production to produce!

NATO had the 5.56, the Soviets had 5.45, they wanted something similar, and they could kill two birds with one stone in the process. Why is this surprising?

I mean I've seen at least some footage and reports (I think RAND put one out) on Chinese weapons being placed in Syrian and Iranian units, as well as like Sudan. they LOVE the Chinese stuff, since it's apparently cheaper than the Russian or American stuff (duh) and the Chinese stuff has some strengths over the Russian equipment (namely, apparently it's still often designed for barely-literate conscripts for that "it just werks" quality).

>wanting to use ammunition that your enemy uses
Only Finland did that, but if any of their ammunition got captured the war was lost anyway. China has been invaded before, and will be again, this mentality has affected the strategy of the Chinese, that's why they've started the build islands and to expand their Navy.

There's plenty of Chinese weapons in the ME, its just not immediately apparent that they're Chinese sometimes.

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Who the fuck is insane enough to invade China? You would have to have the country be heavily weakened internally before any military accomplishment could be fruitful there.

(1/2)
Based on my experience with Chinese guns here in Leafland, their equipment is rough around the edges, but it'll get the job done. These were the guns I've handled, and my experiences with them.
>M305
The ubiquitous M14 clone, this is a decent entry level semi-auto .308. Accuracy isn't spectacular (2-3" @ 100m), but for $700 it's a reliable piece. The stocks are shit, they feel like they're made of recycled milk jugs, but they can be swapped out for wood ones. There are also a number of relatively inexpensive modifications you can make to improve both accuracy and reliability.
>T97.
It's a striker fired bullpup. I'll compare it to the Tavor, because that's basically the premier bullpup available on the Canadian market, and it'll give you Americans a frame of reference. Fit and finish vs the Tar 21 is terrible; it also feels like milk jugs, and it rattles around like a damn Mattel toy (if watch the Forgotten Weapons video on it, you can hear it rattling around in Ian's hands). It also has issues with STANAG magazines; sometimes they drop free, other times they don't. Sometimes they get stuck, and it seems to come down to each individual rifle which magazines will work and which ones won't. This can usually be remedied by filing the back of the magwell. The stock ergonomics are also a joke; the magazine release is a pencil-eraser sized button, the safety is behind the magazine release (I still don't know what they were thinking?), and the sights are pretty terrible. On the plus side, accuracy is not bad at all; about 2-3" @ 100m, depending on the ammo. Here's a neckbeard doing a shooting test with a heavily modified T97: youtu.be/i908VCPdwQE?t=4m53s
So it's accuracy is about the same as a Tar 21, if not a little better, for about 1/4 the cost. While I was criticizing the magazines earlier, once you have ones that work, it's a reliable rifle. Not as reliable as a Tar 21, but you can shoot hundreds of rounds through it with no issues.

>it rattles around like a damn Mattel toy

This is actually due to the cleaning kit in the pistol grip. It's pretty handy, and includes sight tools, punches for popping out roll pins in the bolt, etc. But it rattles around! Remove it and the rifle is just about silent.

>the magazine release is a pencil-eraser sized button, the safety is behind the magazine release (I still don't know what they were thinking?)

They were probably thinking it's the simplest solution, and it's more common than you'd think. The FAMAS G2 does the same thing.

At first glance, the QBZ looks like it's a FAMAS.
Then you open it up, and you see it's not a FAMAS at all, but a weird AK.
...But then there's a few things it seems to borrow from the FAMAS after all, like the recoil buffer, or how the plastic shell goes together. I wonder how much influence it actually had.

>T97 continued
For me, the highlight of the T97 is it's trigger. For a $700 Made in China bullpup, it's better than it has any business being. It's appreciably superior to the Tar-21's stock trigger, which isn't saying much, but this is on a rifle that costs 1/4 the price. Also, in Canad you can actually buy a ton of aftermarket parts (pic related) that will give it a flat top upper, improved safety and fore end, and there's even improved magazine releases. This will basically double the price of the rifle when all is said and done though, so you'd have to decide for yourself if it's worth it for what is at it's core a cheap rifle.
>CQ-A
These are comparable to an M&P Sport II in terms of quality. They make a solid entry level AR, decent accuracy, very reliable, and you get to access the AR aftermarket. What's weird about this is that the drop free mags work just fine on the CQ-A, so I don't get why they couldn't get them to work more consistently on the T97; it's not like drop free mags were new to them at that point. Used to be one of the cheapest ARs on our market, but the M&P Sport II cost came down recently and now it's about the same.
>Norinco 1911
Not much to say about this; it's a 1911. Trigger isn't rough, but you can use your choice of 1911 aftermarket trigger if you so choose. No more or less reliable than any other 1911 I've seen. Costs about $300 CAD, so you can probably see the appeal.

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I don't know, pretty much EVERYONE.
Europe did it, Japan did it, fuck even the Mongols did it. China has always been internally weak, each polititan and general is only out for himself, and revolution is just around the corner.

Answer to question "What is China?"

I mean now, not pre-1949. Everyone you mentioned is weakened to the core. Mongolians are literally just random dudes in a desert. Between the reforms and the “corruption clensings”, it’s pledge to Xi or leave. Let’s not forget that the Americans thought about ‘nam what you think about China.

Now or then? Then, pre-1949, China was weaker than dirt. Warlords ran the show by the time Europeand came by. 1949 - early 2000s, reforms out the ass, only lately becoming relativey modern. Now? Modern reforms that I fear are USA carbon copies or at least attempts at such.

>China has always been internally weak, each polititan and general is only out for himself, and revolution is just around the corner.

It really depends when you attack China. They do run on a somewhat predictable schedule.

>Norinco 1911
They have a FORGED frame and slide, which make the metal really hard. Great for base builds just swapping out the cast parts. Some $1000 1911's still have cast frames, so it's really worth it even if you find one in the US for $700

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Also, as an addendum, it's worth mentioning that Norinco actually altered and resubmitted the T97 after the RCMP decided it was too easy to convert to full auto. I can't think of any other time a gun company redesigned and resubmitted a gun after getting rejected the first time. As far as I know, everyone else has just said "screw it, it was worth a shot".

Sounds good. Unfortunately up here you can only take pistols to the range, so I haven't gotten the chance to see how well it could hold up to a beating compared to other 1911s. A lot of 1911s are finnicky with ammo, but from what I saw this one wasn't.

5.8x42mm round is allegedly pretty good. And the Type 95 is aesthetic as fuck. Everything else is literal paper tiger.

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All those countries aren't actively waging war on the US right now.

I was talking about why Tommy Taliban and Sammy Somali aren't walking around with brand new QBZs or those weird grenade launcher rifles and are still using old shit.

Whlie a lot of their shit is of Chinese origin, its so old and outdated China can always say "We never sold it to them, where are proofs? They got it second or third hand from somebody else." to avoid any incidents.

I'll take things that never happened in 1979 for 500 please.

ANNNNNND the village retard has arrived.

>after the RCMP decided it was too easy to convert to full auto.

This is also the only time where the RCMP might have been right. From a photo a guy took of the inside of his rifle back in the day, it looked like it still had the autosear in it, haha. You'd just have to file a notch in the selector switch and you'd be good to go.

NORINCO 1911s sells for a premium in the US for several reasons

1) rare
2) metal quality is superb. That's due to China's (at the time) low labor cost and being the world's largest supplier of tungsten and tool steel maker.

>Mongolians are literally just random dudes in a desert.
that managed to carve out the largest empire known to Man at the time.
And let's not forget that it wasn't just the Mongols against the "Chinese". It was a bunch of splinter Chinese and Mongols against the Chinese. The Jin dynasty and Southern Song were fighting against each other.

Such a nice looking rifle, even if the controls are kind of crap.

Anyway, the PLA, PLAN, PLAF, etc. are not to be underestimated. That is never a wise thing to do because of perceived technological, ideological, or even racial inferiority of a foe. Overall they may not be able to wage a war across the world, but fighting them in mainland Asia would suck because they could be a competent force. They have some tricks up their sleeve and their common weapons are decent enough that it's not just a few units given good stuff (as one may have expected to see within the USSR or Warsaw Pact as a whole). They have some effective support weapons, good armor, and enough specialized forces.
Their navy is good enough that they could defend their own waters for a time and pose a significant threat to Taiwan in the event of war- they could probably capture it and then it would have to be wrestled from their control like the Falklands (where the same strategy of an Exclusion Zone may be the best bet to keeping Chinese reinforcements away.) Out on the open ocean, I wouldn't put my money on the PLAN. They wouldn't be able to stop every American carrier and US/NATO subs are nothing to scoff at. China would do well enough defending its land with its army, and it would be a helluva fight to push them back to the point of encirclement or surrender. Every other aspect of a war would be won by the US/NATO/Asian allies, but it wouldn't be a cakewalk.

5.8 itself was China joining Russia, America and Western Europe with a modern SCHV cartridge.

The Vietnamese hold the border but nobody won that war.

Because being Norinco makes them unobtanium.

They seem to be more into economic expansion though anyway. They are willing to do business with regimes the west finds unsavory without imposing demands like not genociding your own people and shit. This builds goodwill with said countries and avoids nasty military commitments.

Dude knows his shit. They probably have decent anti-ship missiles though.

Is it that time again?

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No, he’s a fucking moron.

It has one of the worst safeties on the world. All the way in your armpit, and the recoil is super spongy. The guys at t97ca make an aluminium lower with a proper safety.

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The romance quickly fades when you realize the ergonomics are fucking terrible, the safety placement is god awful, the trigger is shit, the plastic stock feels like utter shit, the sights are shit, the mag well is too tight for pmags, you might have to do your own fucking polish up on the feed ramps to make it work properly...

Despite all this I still want one. They LOOK so fucking cool. It's pure aesthetics that make me want one. Regardless, you guys are fortunate to have a much wider selection of things down there. FALs, G3s, AKs, easy access to ARs... the chinkpup doesn't come close to any of that fun stuff

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the T97 Gen 2.
It fixes all these issues.

Kills the aesthetic, at least for myself. Part of the reason the T97 is intriguing is because of its exotic appearance.

>their military is designed to either kill their own people or
Literally since dawn of time the institutionalized military has primarily been there to keep ones own peasants in line, tangling with foreign kings has always been a secondary use..

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that's a nice video.

one can really see how fast the reload for the domestic version is.

thats been the modus operandi for all conscript armies since ww2

Except the PLA isnt a conscript army, but a massive volunteer army.

Joining the PLA brings benefits that poor peasants (and increasingly city boys) really want so badly that they even bribe the recruiters to let them join.

China migth have a conscription law, but they have never instituted a draft in 70 years since the founding of the Communist Republic.
Even during wartime, such as Korean War, there were more than enough volunteers and seasoned veterans of the previous civil war who would go into battle.

ok equipment personnel wise, vehicle wise some good new stuff but a lot of outdated trash.
They're probably not a very good fighting force because they never fight so they have to rely on training alone.

China wanted an improvement over x39's ballistics beyond 300m, the Type 81 may have been very accurate (it is after all basically a product improved SKS - which is much more accurate than an AKM) but the same M16A4 it outshoots can perform 300m+ alot better.

They also saw the writing on the wall, the AK-74 was a vast improvement in AK accuracy and performance at range.

And yeah the generals selling x39 is probable as well, case in point the chinese stuff that ended up in Iraq for IA middle manned through Albania

Not sure about this at all, the chinese export models are possible, but there is also no shortage of AK makers making product improved variants

Let's go by the earlier Vietnam War standards where we judge by kill counts.

The Vietnamese pushed China's shit in, unless you actually believe the CPC's bullshit claims, I'm 10x more inclined to believe the Vietnamese figures, they were the ones winning most of the engagements and they have less reason to lie, being infringed upon by China

You’re a fucking moron. Look at the damage done to northern Vietnam in 79. They were still recovering well into the 90s.

China sent Cat B units to fight a VPA that refused pitched battles while the Cat A units were at the Soviet border ready to blunt an armored thrust.

>they have less reason to lie AHAHAHAHAHA
Baka

Yeah like China had that big a effect on a nation that had just 40 years of continuous warfare and lost millions of it's own people, that America finally started bombing the utter shit out of in the final stage of the war going full carpet bombing.
Get fucking real chink shill, China got it's shit pushed in, precisely because the Vietnamese denied the Chinese pitched engagements and exterminated them in depth and at their rear

Not that guy, but wasn't the Sino Vietnam War a political ploy by Deng? China reached Hanoi then retreated, declaring it had succeeded. Then he used the fuck ups to fire some of the old guard who were resisting reforms.

Is there a kit to convert the Canadian version to paddle release

I don't know man, Canucks may get to import cool shit but they're subjected to castrated magazines, at least in America you can freely own 30rdrs is most places.

The Russians have spent pretty the entirety of the Cold War pretty much praying to Lenin for the Chinese to give them an excuse.

I'll do you one better: Why is China?

The future is cheap Chinese plastic. If they started ramping production I bet China and whoever they allow to locally produce it could produce Type 95s for pennies on the dollar compared to AKs and older slavshit.

Yeah, you'll always have diehard AKfags parroting the "steel is real" meme but when you're poor as fuck and just need to equip all your barely-trained mooks with something reasonably effective but still very cheap, that's where something like the Type 95 shines.

I think it's kinda cute

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You know "chinko" means dick in Japanese, yeah? Like a hard one.

You’re fucking retarded. Go read a book dumb shit.

Bullshit, and you know it. Or you’re retarded.
Soviet response to a nascent Chinese nuclear capability was “maybe we should nuke Lop Nor”. Soviet response to 1963 -68 was “let’s not escalate”. You fail to realize exactly what NATO would do if the USSR actually committed to a full blow land war against china.

Now that I think about it, you might really be retarded.

EVERYTHING
THAT
COMES
FROM
CHINA
IS
COMPLETE
AND
UTTER
SHIT

/thread

Everything that came out of your mother’s cavernous vagina is 100% pure unadulterated retardation.
/yourself

I would dick her

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You also can't get AKs in Leafland, so...

I think being able to get WASRs/Arsenals is a fair tradeoff for not being able to get a middling bullpup at best. Of course, I'd rather be able to buy everything, sporting clauses and import bans be damned.

It’s just as shitty as the Soviet gear it was based on.

The Chinese lost a lot of dudes, but they captured some clay for that war and reached Hanoi. The only reason they pulled back, was fear of Soviet involvement.

The sport models that you can get in Leafland are pretty nice. In the US, we only got the milspec GIish clones, as well as a small batch of 4.25" barrel Commanders, before imports were cut off.

But in other countries, I believe they have 9mm versions: even a double stock copy that accepts (IIRC) Bersa Thunder magazines.

made by chinese children when they are not practicing math for a shit army that defends shit countries like north korea
their guns and army suck
better dead then read

>better dead then read
>read
well clearly this explains your continued existence.

Our M4s just got back from services. Converted to M4A1, new barrel and trigger group. Trigger is a lot better than they were, I'd estimate down to 4-5 lbs

There is one chink on this board that is constantly making threads glorifying Chinese military equipment. It’s plastic crap, get over it. Take out the poos in India and get a notch in your belt then we’ll talk.

C L A M S H E L L

>There is one chink
he's white and he's baiting retards like you, retard.

No one really knows. Its a political Frankenstein, should've never worked but some how managed to always work. Imagine all of western and central Europe as one country, that is what China is.

I dunno about any of the other stuff mentioned in ITT, but I love my chinese dragunov

They fixed most of this with the g2, which had a flat top rail as standard.

I’ve actually collected a decent amount of equipment from the US China and Russia and I’m currently putting together Australian equipment so I’ve had a decent amount of experience with the equipment issued to a PLA infantry man and I can best compared to US lbvs issued during the late 80s and mid 90s given that its light and functional however the quality is meh by comparison to other major powers and the pla type 07 camo pattern is total shit and only works in urban environments China’s personal equipment is on par with places like India and Uzbekistan the only difference being it cost way more.

did this thing ever get issued?
or was it just a prototype that never got out of development

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