For the final /PFG/ that I will create, the topic(s) will focus around RIMPAC 2018 and the implications it will have in the pacific theater. As well other notable developments that have taken place in the past few months.
Here are sources to get you all up to speed on what has been happening in the past 3 months. Including deployments and exercise Spoiler, the USN has been very, very busy.
The United States, has very suddenly woken up to the reality of the threat that China poses, and has been adapting a FUCKton of policy and doctrine accordingly, specifically emphasis on Forward Deployed (Naval) Forces, high end training exercises, and an increased emphasis on multinational flotillas working with each other. Starting with the juiciest news >news.usni.org/2018/05/16/cno-dynamic-force-employment-allow-high-end-training-strike-groups >“Maybe we increase naval power by bringing the strike group back a little early and we do high-end strike-group-on-strike-group exercises or training like that, and then you really kind of enter a, I’m trying out some things that are really on the cutting edge of naval warfare. And then the strike group pulls in and they get a little time with their families, time to go to schools, that sort of thing, and then maybe they surge forward – so you’re not gone for that long period of time, maybe you can do a little maintenance, and so we see there’s opportunities.” >“What about dual strike group operations on the same team? What about strike group operations opposing? And maybe as the (French aircraft carrier), Charles de Gaulle strike group comes up to speed (after its maintenance availability ends this summer), when we’re over in 6th Fleet or something we work them into the routine as well. So just a lot of opportunities there.” Yes. You read that right. The USN is going to be training it’s CSGs against the highest end threats again, sometimes as a Dual CSG, sometimes pitting CSGs against each other.
>usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018-05/fleet-must-be-able-fight >As we contemplate peer-level maritime adversaries, we need to recall the Navy’s foundational strength and resiliency. In response, we have focused the Pacific Fleet into full-spectrum and multi-domain numbered fleets within theater-level warfighting organizations capable of overmatching any adversary. Careful focus at the operational level of war is necessary to craft and wield this force.
>news.usni.org/2018/05/31/34016 >"When asked by members of the press corps about U.S. military planners concern over a potential long-term threat to navigation posed by the South China Sea island building, McKenzie referenced the U.S. island hopping strategy employed in World War II to repel the advancement of Japan’s military. “It’s just a fact we have a lot of experience in the Second World War taking out small islands that are isolated. That’s a core competency of the US military that we’ve done before,” McKenzie said. “You shouldn’t read anything more into that than a simple statement of historical fact.”
>news.usni.org/2018/05/02/navy-increases-tour-lengths-for-first-term-forward-deployed-sailors Guam, Japan, and Spain are drastically increasing the length of deployments/base rotations for forward deployed sailors in an attempt to provide continuity for manning forward deployed ships, being that forward deployed fleets are woefully undermanned once compared to their CONTUS counterparts.
>english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2018/04/08/0200000000AEN20180408003400315.html >Among the U.S. assets mobilized for this exercise were the USS Wasp, a 40,500-ton multipurpose amphibious assault ship, and the USS Bonhomme Richard, another vessel of the same class. Wasp was carrying several F-35B stealth fighter jets capable of vertical take-off and landing. >For the combined exercise, South Korea and U.S. originally planned to mobilize their naval and marine forces to stage the so-called D-Day landing operation, reminiscent of the Invasion of Normandy, on a beach of the southern coastal city of Pohang on Thursday. The operation, however, was cancelled due to adverse weather. >The number of participating troops hasn't been announced. The Ssangyong practice is held annually, but it is conducted on a larger scale every two years, involving more than 10,000 American marines, mostly based in Okinawa, and thousands of South Korean marines. This was the largest Amphibious Landing exercise in the better part of a decade, at least in the Pacific.
>navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=104613 >participants include USS Antietam (CG 54), USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG 54), USS Benfold (DDG 65), USS Mustin (DDG 89), JS Fuyuzuki (DD-118), and a number of subsurface and other special units.
"MultiSail 2018 provide us a valuable opportunity to increase JMSDF tactical capabilities and to strengthen our interoperability with our U.S. Navy allies," said Cmdr. Kazuteru Hirano, JS Fuyuzuki's commanding officer. "The Japan-U.S. alliance is stronger than it has ever been, and it is growing stronger."
The USS Ronald Reagan, Ticonderogas USS Chancellorsville and Antietam, Burke Class USS Benfold, 688I, Hyuga Class JS Ise, Takanami Class JS Suzunami, Akizuki Class JS Fuyuzuki, Indian Corvette Kamorta, Indian Frigate that I forget the name of, and an Indian Fleet Replenishment Ship Shakti were all participants
Note: I do not know if I got all of the recent naval exersies in this list since I made this thread a little more hastily than usual /PFG/s my apologies.
>navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=106081 >The guided-missile destroyer USS Mustin (DDG 89), expeditionary fast transport USNS Brunswick (T-EPF 6), diving and salvage ship USNS Salvor (T-ARS 52) and a P-8 Poseidon maritime surveillance aircraft operated alongside Royal Thai Navy frigates HTMS Taskin, HTMS Naresuan and HTMS Bangprakong in cooperative evolutions in the Gulf of Thailand. Exercises included a gunnery exercise to maintain Sailors' readiness with on-board weapon systems, diving operations to promote mutual efficiency underwater, and an air defense exercise aimed to increase proficiency in air and missile defense.
>U.S. Marines from Golf Company, 2nd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment underwent jungle survival training with the Royal Thai Marines learning survival techniques on how to find water sources and identify edible vegetation, animals and insects, along with other events including live-fire events and small boat operations. "There's a comradery there that we share knowing that we're all fighting, training and learning with each other for a common good," said Capt. Brandon Bocian, commander of Golf Company, 2nd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment.
For RIMPAC itself, there has not yet been all that much declared about what is going to happen other than this RIMPAC is going to be geared towards higher end, more complex exercises, being that very large portion of the Ships that are being sent to it by the United States have been conducting a large amount of exercises, I think it is safe to assume this RIMPAC will be a little different than previous ones. The JS Izumo left Yokosuka about a week ago so chances are that it’s going to attend as well.
The Carl Vinson, to my surprise is going to be the US CVN that will be leading the exercises. This will mark the 3rd deployment that the Vinson has been tasked with in one single year. Definitely signaling that the change of doctrine is already taking effect.
It should also be noted that the Reagan CSG, although currently deployed, is not partaking in RIMPAC. This was somewhat surprising to me due to the assumption that this would of been the first time that the USN was going to do it's high end CSG v CSG exercise, but turns out the Reagan will just patrol the Pacific as RIMPAC carries out. What would be neat to see, however, would be the Reagan doing a joint JMSDF FONOPs drill near some Chinese island bases during the high end portions of RIMPAC, intimidating the Chinese for lack of better words. Due the fact that the PLAN was uninvited to RIMPAC just a month before it started. thanks for the kind words, I actually really appreciate it.
Pic: HMS Sutherland doing Naval Drills with the JMSDF.
>The USN is going to be training it’s CSGs against the highest end threats again, Didnt they already do that?
Cameron Mitchell
I think they've just started actually training against a PLAN threat in the form of a CSG or large naval engagement with allies..
Easton Ortiz
What are they doing to counter the advancements in Chinese technology?
Why do they still focus on Carriers when they are so vulnerable?
Can the US project force onto the Asian mainland?
Carson Moore
>What are they doing to counter the advancements in Chinese technology? >Why do they still focus on Carriers when they are so vulnerable? >Can the US project force onto the Asian mainland? Nice try cheng
William Edwards
Fuck yeah. Love these threads. I only have like one question. Does the US have navy ships in Korea?
Ian Reed
Not in the way that they will be conducting training. I don't even know the last time the United States Navy actually pitted their CSGs against each other. >What are they doing to counter the advancements in Chinese technology? news.usni.org/2018/06/21/34520 As of right now not that much, for the time being we're only officially recognizing all the gray area shit that China has been doing against the West. Hard to tell desu since nothing is actually public, from what I know. >Why do they still focus on Carriers when they are so vulnerable? idk but it seems that USN CSGs will be in a much more favorable position than the PLAN ones, espeically in the coming years when we start seeing the product of these CSG v CSG drills. >Can the US project force onto the Asian mainland? uh.. maybe? That kind of goes completely against US Doctrine and Strategy.
Also I forgot to add. Do not feed trolls in this thread, point blank. No replies or anything. I'll handle them
Yes, mostly in and around Busan, there's a DESCRON squadron as well as attack subs making regular port calls there.
Chase Lewis
What is the bigger threat to the US navy in the Pacific? Chinese subs or Chinese Carriers?
John Bell
Neither
Landon Lopez
For the time being, Subs without a doubt, granted from what I have read Chinese subs aren't exactly intimidating, but they certainly pose a threat. It should be noted though that in any actual flash point or would be confrontation with the Chinese would see multiple Navies participating, each one specializing in countering a certain threat. US/JMSDF SSN/SSKs are not to be overlooked regarding a would be confrontation.
Do not underplay the threat the a rising China will pose. There is a reason that the USN is going through such thorough revamp. This is the main reason why the USN is putting such intense emphasis on multinational coalitions Not saying they aren't overrated, but you do not create policy and doctrine on wishful thinking.
You replied to me twice Rising China is a threat, that's for sure, but thinking at their current level they couldn't be swatted easily at the whim of the USN is just plain wrong.
Aaron Adams
They've designed their naval and air arm to try and deny the USN an area to operate for long enough to achieve whatever political goal they want.
They wouldn't be swatted easily, it would take the USN and its allies, however they will lose if they try to confront allied forces conventionally.
Austin Anderson
Thinking they can be easily swatted is extremely optimistic. A2/AD isn't just a meme and littoral defense isn't that hard.
Ayden Jenkins
As someone in the shipbuilding industry, thanks for making these. There seem to be too few naval threads around here.
> but thinking at their current level they couldn't be swatted easily at the whim of the USN is just plain wrong.
Don't get me wrong, it is without a doubt that at the current moment the PLAN doesn't really hold a candle to the United States Navy, but that isn't how you look at it. One must look at what's currently underway in the Pacific, what is tied up in maintenance, what will be deploy-able in the coming month or two, and so on. We will not see 75% of all USN ships fighting China in any realistic conflict, because in all honesty a flashpoint with the Chinese would not last more than 2 months, MAX. If China was able to surge it's Navy during the typical lull period 7th Fleet goes through in the winter, the US would indeed be hard pressed to surge forces in theater for that conflict. Again, this is why there has been so much incentive to do high end training with the Japanese and others. These conflicts will not happen in a vacuum.
What have you been making of the recent incentives in revitalizing our shipyards? Is it enough? Also if I may ask, what exactly do you do?
I wish they had incorporated that into the ship merchandise they used to sell. Or better yet, the ship’s crest. Would have been great. Instead we got this.
>Hey my sister is on the Lincoln what should I send her? A cervix pillow.
Landon Morris
You mean a "cervical" pillow or...
Carson Parker
I’m all for more business for they shipyards, won’t affect NNS too much though as our schedule is already pretty well set. Biggest thing will be if we get the two carrier buy (which seems like it’s going to happen) and shorten the carrier construction time considerably.
I’m a nuclear engineer for the new construction projects, so Ford and VCS. Since NNS won’t be launching any Columbia class subs, we won’t be getting to do any of those sadly, that’ll all be EB.
Andrew Kelly
Their 055 destroyers and a few others have an "Aegis Equivalent" but no one knows how effective it is, even if it is almost as good as they state it is, I highly doubt it would rival Aegis.
100% accurate. ASIO has been shouting from the rooftops about it for the last year and a half.
James Ward
eh, is possible. they have been lobbying with for themselves in Canada so i guess it wouldnt be too much of a stretch. but the problem is that dispite location, the aussie military is way closer with the US than Canada.
Asher Brooks
lol
Nathan Walker
Australia is pushing back and starting to crunch down on this pretty hard actually, from what I have read. The Chinese are trying some things but there is no realistic chance it will happen. Oh neat, but I was under the assumption that HASC was still undecided about it, I remember reading an article on USNI that said that they were still looking into it and a report would come out about it by the end of the summer. But I agree, shaving off 2 years for CVN shipbuilding is huge.
Did anything concrete come out of that carrier visit to Vietnam?
Thomas Torres
They are. I’m in the same building as our VP of CVN80/81 construction and it’s been nonstop meetings since January between our upper level executives and different Navy officials and congressman. There’s still a lot of negotiating going on, but the general consensus is that with discussions having been going on for so long it’s likely to go through. The company is even going to start an ad campaign for it in the DC area sometime soon. Then again, this is just the feeling those of us who have no inside knowledge of the matter have, so I could be completely wrong.
A copy of Indian BrahMos after fatniks been crying that supersonics aren't worth it compared to their derelict Harpoons.
Brayden Wood
>Affordable
AHAHAHA The Kh-35 costs $200K
Caleb Wright
The Carrier visit in itself has a lot of implications on how much Vietnan and the US have warned relations. Safe to say they will be at least sympathetic to the US in the coming years Yeah I was trying to imply that it wasnt written on paper. The navy would be foolish to not do the 2 carrier block buy. I remember reading that its hypersonic
How does the type 45 DD and some of the other anti air DDs and FFs from Europe compare with the Burke's and Ticos. Are there systems as good as Aegis?
Thomas Parker
How does the change of appointment of ADM. Henry Harris to the South Korean Ambassadorship from the Australian one effect U.S.-Australian relations? How well do you expect naval/military officers to act as diplomats?
Jordan Cox
>Marked troll.
>Put them in their place >Gets called a troll Yeah, sure.
Joseph Hughes
and it also misses like crazy
Luis Butler
OP, what do you think of the Philippine Navy's involvement in this year's Rimpac? Can the flip navy make great cannon fodder?
Joseph Stewart
Op you should use an anchor post for marked trolls. Could be useful
Levi Morris
I heard that these new sub launched missiles are actually hypersonic and the US tested a production grade version from a sub off hawaii a few months ago.
Brody Murphy
Would a Naval conflict with china spiral into a land war? Perhaps on the Korean peninsula?
Cooper Martin
>this extraordinarily secret Sub specific ASM is an Indian copy xd Last (you) you're getting So far they're bringing a dock platform ship and an old frigate. So probably focus on anti piracy and other types of lower end ops. Their Navy is (starting) to modernize promisingly. Pretty sure they're talking to the ROK or JMSDF for procuring some modern SSKs. I remember reading that it was hypersonic too actually. A lot depends on the scenario in question. You guys need to be quite specific with these questions.
Having military officers conducting major diplomatic relations outside of military affairs is kinda wasteful. The fucking State Department is supposed to handle non-military stuff and taking military officers to conduct standard diplomatic relations is a drain on military capability.
Joseph Cooper
Yes I missed you
Chase Wright
The 7 ate 9 ( zywica?)
Jace Nguyen
Thanks for spy data off reagan
Joshua Anderson
Heyooo you left some juicy parts out but ima fill some US stuff in for ya. This is from the DOD public contract announcements.
>June 20 >Lockheed Martin, Rotary and Mission System is awarded a cost-plus-incentive-fee modification to a previously awarded contract to exercise options for Aegis Baseline 9 capability development, studies, initiatives and support and Technical Insertion-08 CG upgrade. The contract provides for the completion of the development and fielding of the Aegis Baseline 9 Aegis weapon system and integrated Aegis combat system on the remaining Aegis TI 12 configured destroyers as well as TI 12 and TI 08 configured cruisers. Work is expected to be completed by July 2019. >AKA AEGIS Combat System contract to upgrade the remaining DDG/CGs that have not been upgraded to new Baseline.
>Southern Research Institute, is awarded a $9,679,480 cost-plus-fixed-fee contract to provide thermo-mechanical and aero-thermal ground testing of thermal protection system materials in ballistic re-entry and re-entry-like environments, and fabrication of flight hardware for submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) re-entry systems. >AKA Trident II MIRV warhead upgrade with regards to new materials and warhead design.
> Lockheed Martin Sippican, Marion, Massachusetts, is awarded cost-plus-incentive-fee modification to a previously awarded contract to exercise engineering and maintenance services for the heavyweight Mk 48 torpedo program at the Intermediate Maintenance Activity, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Lockheed Martin Sippican will provide planning, technical and torpedo handling support, maintenance, repair and testing of torpedo components and torpedo maintenance-related task. Work will be performed in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and is expected to be completed by March 2019. >AKA Mk 48 torpedoes getting depot maintenance and upgrades
Ryan Adams
>this extraordinarily secret Sub specific ASM is an Indian copy xd
>Extraordinarily secret >Gets a 1:24 scale playtoy >Looks eerily close to an indian BrahMos with the same specs too
In terms of innovation, we already know that America has fallen on the wayside just like the Russians. China has the innovation speed to catch up and overtake America in the next 5 years.
Christopher Reed
They actually calling the new training exercises "Fleet Problems".
The Australian government's final begun funding of the AIR7000 Phase 1B acquisition program, with $1.4 billion being put towards the procurement of the first one or two MQ-4C Triton UAVs
These drones have 24+ hours of on-station endurance, a 360-degree rotating AESA, one of the biggest EO/IR turrets you'll find on any aircraft today, and a decent ESM suite for monitoring ship traffic, performing ELINT, etc.
To put things in perspective, in a single flight a Triton (using its AESA and sweeping back and forth across the continent) can scan 1/2 to 2/3 of Australia's entire land mass. It'll be a while until they enter service with the RAAF, but they'll be very useful for border patrol and for monitoring ship movements and performing surveillance up north in South East / East Asia, as their max range is >9550nmi, meaning they could literally have it take off from RAAF Base Edinburgh and then fly to Beijing and back without stopping. Or more realistically, it could land at RAAF Base Tindal (which is being upgraded to facilitate forward-deployed Tritons) and then fly to the Spratly islands and loiter around there for something like >18 hours at a time.
They have been trying, but the government is finally getting proactive about trying to halt it (China hasn't been pleased with Turnbull recently). The Australian markets, etc however are getting progressively controlled by Chinese influences, but I wouldn't be surprised if policy changes in the near future to try and limit that.
There has been talk in Norway of getting drones for sea surveilance alongside P-8's to replace our P-3's. Do you think these drones would be suited to it?
Nolan Rivera
>final /PFG/ Plz don't go
Connor Green
>There seem to be too few naval threads around here. Sadly true
Luis Lewis
>Chinese subs aren't exactly intimidating
Confirmed as a frog in a well, don't know how high the sky is and how deep the ground is.
They do compliment aircraft like the P-8 well; for Norway I don't know if the Triton is all that necessary, but as climate change opens up the Arctic it could be useful for patrolling the entirety of the Arctic Circle (all the way to Alaska, etc).
Brandon Clark
YJ-18/YJ-12
David Moore
>In terms of innovation, we already know that America has fallen on the wayside just like the Russians. China has the innovation speed to catch up and overtake America in the next 5 years. Is that why China is developing carriers with ramps and conventionally powered carriers? What innovation.
Go away, /pfg/ does not care for your unscrupulous behavior or spam.
Isaiah Evans
>Australian economy only booms because of China's trade >Australia shits on China at every opportunity it can get
China just stops buying your ores and you are literally finished. Australia literally has a third world economy based on commodity exports to industrial countries.
Blake Hughes
>BAAAW I WANT MY ECHO CHAMBER!
Enjoy more Chinese advances.
None of you can stand against the power of a literally facist nation that 100% commands all aspects of their people's productivity and is able to embark on one manhattan project after another without any bipartisan political disputes.
Looks way more original and innovative compared to an Indian BrahMos. The specs are way better too, as expected of China. Impressive.
Gabriel Rogers
I have no emotional problem with the PLA, it is just you. You've poisoned any discussion of the PLA into a propaganda spamfest that nobody remotely takes seriously.
Joshua Davis
No need to take me seriously, since I am just sharing established facts that makes the US and the MoDs of all Pacific Rim nations wet their pants.
Just goes to show that China has more intriguing prospects for innovation and their research and development is at an unprecedented pace. Clearly shows superior homogeneous community that is does not need to be tackling lgbt or black social problems to create technology for all.
That the Ford is at sea conducting carrier operations while the 001A is in drydock with the man in charge of its construction up on corruption charges.
China isnt homogenous. Rather, they are very adapt in evading the faults of usual authoritarian regimes, which is their habit of micromanaging everything.
The current Chinese system is, like Def Sec Mattis has already said, close to that of the Ming Dynasty - i.e. and authoritarian state that sets the rules, but literally a free market economic system.
This allows for innovation despite the political limitations.
After all, ancient China did all their earlier inventions under even harsher regimes than they have now.
>a sub launched AARGM. I like it, the AARGM is just a HARM body with a combination radar/HARM seeker, isn't it? That means it can be used against ships?
Sounds like it would work. HARMs hit and maintain mach 3 when their engines are lit.
