Convince me

> .357 65gr bullet
> +2000fps
So, a varmint round? Not saying I want you to shoot me, but is the bullet even going to make it 3" inside the guy before completely coming apart?

Eh 5.7x28 goes about the same speed out of a P90 and that bullet has half the mass.

If you’re looking for the ultimate high-velocity megaglawk and concealability isn’t a concern, why not go with a G40 with a 9x25 Dillon barrel?

That said, as a .357 Sig glockfag (CCW is a G32 gen 3) I’ve been intrigued by this 65gr extreme defender round. Call me a fudd, but I’m not sure if I’m sold on such a lightweight solid copper projectile. If anyone here has experience with it, what advantages does it offer over Underwood’s 125gr GDHP to justify the 50% price increase?

youtube.com/watch?v=9eJqi1Vrdlw&t=2m46s

Here is a guy pushing that same round to 2100fps with a 9mm carbine. So that is the minimum performance, it would be traveling a few hundred fps more most likely

Also, you are missing the design of the bullet, it's not a lead core bullet so it's not exploding.

If 65gr penetrates 3” and stops, it’s dumping an excess of 700 ft lbs of energy if it’s going 2000 FPS. That’s blowing a 6” chunk out of someone, at least.

Aaaawwwww yeah, long Glock thread.

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17L is best 17

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Do it OP, all the best gums look like something RoboCop would use.

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Yep. My bad.

Which is why I'm skeptical about guys telling me to avoid ballistic tip ammo for my AR for home defense, despite shitty drywall everywhere. But I keep hearing "FBI says 12 inch pen or go fuck yourself" from guys who actually walked a beat, so I keep buying gold dots instead.

How goddamn big are you?

Right now the only thing that has me on the fence about it is the shooting my neighbors issue. The thing is any round that you miss a shot with has that risk, hollow points just plug up with drywall/wood and carry on like ball ammo at that point... *shrug* in the end it's part of the risk of firing a gun and you need to be really sure of your target. From what I've seen with this ammo is consistently penetrates around 18" and is LESS likely to overpenetrate because the bullet shape itself is what slows it down in flesh and it doesnt rely on anything like expansion that may or may not happen. Seems to be the most consistent.

Fat hairy Viking sized

Do it.

Why don't you just get a 9x25 dillon barrel instead and load it even hotter

USP expert match is close to that barrel length

Can only find a 357 conversion in Full size and compact though :( But ya, that was my preferred platform.

>17L is best L
Yes

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OP, get that. Then get the adapter for an AR buffer tube and get a brace for it.

Picture says 2,100fps, not easily 2,300.
I love .357sig but it looks like a dead caliber to me, guns aren't for sale at most shops and ammo is super expensive for plinking. To me that spells shrinking market share and possible supply problems in the future.
That long slide will not carry easy if you want it to.
You can get same energy with more mass from 10mm, although thicker gun.

IDK, I think it would be a badass pistol Op and I'd be a little jelly of it but wouldn't buy it myself.

2100 fps is presumably out of the SAAMI standard 4" test barrel. +100 fps per inch is about right.

Try for a 9"

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That's the point. 5.7 is basically the diameter of a .22LR while .357 has the frontal surface area of a 9mm

If you're going to be light and fast you need to be shaped to penetrate which .223/5.56 and 5.7 are (and 5.56 is still typically designed to fragment)

Nice numbers you pulled out of your ass.

I own a 357 sig and love it. I didn't know I could get a six inch barrel. This has to be mine.

Pretty much these
9x25 if your goal is insane handgun number.

Who cares about over penetration.

Try for a 16"

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People who live with other people. It's rare here, but it happens.

Maybe those people should of thought of that before they moved in or near OP.

Hence user asking if they'd put up those brick walls yet.

He shouldn't have to. Those people should expect that shit can happen, put those walls in their house or room before even moving in.

How reliable is this?

Friend has one. He's put probably about 2k rounds through it with no issue.

Why not a G40, the true big boi Glock?

I've read that they're reliable in roni or similar carbines (which is what they're really made for), but horribly unreliable in a normal pistol setup. But the described malfunctions sounded like limp-wristing; if it just makes it harder to avoid limp-wristing, then a lighter recoil spring would be the most you'd need.

On a normal pistol, or a carbine?

> convince me this isn't the best

BECAUSE
YOUR
PISTOL
LOOKS
FUCKING
STUPID
LIKE
IT
WAS
CAUGHT
IN
A
TAFFY
PULLER

FUCKING LOL

>if it goes in 3 inches it'll explode a chunk twice that size where it doesn't touch
can't you into physics even? did you really believe anyone would honestly think what you're saying has any basis in reality when they read that?
I mean can you please explain to me how science works in your personal world view where a regular pebble sized piece of copper alloy causes half a foot of stuff to explode by not moving?

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Yup.
Dunno why it’s not listed on their site, but an Underwood representative I spoke with confirmed that their published ballistic numbers (for .357 Sig rounds at least) are all obtained from a 4” test barrel.

Get a rifle.

That's assuming it's ice picks since it has the sectional density of a jellyfish

Mike Tyson never punched a chunk out of anyone because that isn't how energy works, nor do skeletons explode from the body when car accidents happens

Yeah and those people should totally just go out into the street and stop criminals before they commit crimes too

sectional density of 147gr hollowpoint, expanded to 0.75" diameter: 332 gr/in^2
sectional density of 65gr non-expanding bullet, .355" diameter: 273 gr/in^2
Not all that low, and at these velocities, that sectional density is plenty.
Here's a gel test of the same bullet going 2100fps from a 9mm carbine:
youtube.com/watch?v=9eJqi1Vrdlw
Goes straight through a (presumably 16") gel block. And with non-expanding bullets like this, more velocity means more penetration.

Hello fellow 357 SIG fanboy!

Forget the Glock 24. Get a 31 or 32, get it cut for a Docter sight or Deltapoint Pro and drop in a 6" or 9" barrel.

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Some of us actually own and shoot guns. I'm sure you look really cool though in your mall ninja fantasies with whatever tacticool compact you got.

>357sig HD
I don't think you need intense barrier penetration for hitting soft targets at 15 feet. Between the cost of the Match pistol, new barrel, and ammo it's better to just get a decent threaded barrel in a not-retarded caliber, a tax stamp, and a suppressor.

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the "gimmicky" flutes are for penetration.....not expansion.

shit b8

Don’t forget a “pistol brace.”

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Missing the point this much, the point is to try and hit rifle level effectiveness on targets in a pistol platform. Why would I want to lob some shitty 350ftlb subsonic shit at them. I already have a 45acp for that, 40sw and 9mm for that.

>Convince me why this isn't the best setup
No. Absolutely not. I've already talked to you about this before and it's a wonderful idea, nice to see this cartridge/caliber combination getting some love from somebody who isn't me. Only caveat i might make would be considering going with the 31 and just let the extra 1.5" hang out the end, but that's just preference.
Literally not comparable.
>larger gun
>worse performance
Why tho? if user wanted a shoulder fired gun hed be going with a rifle/shotgun obvi.
>magic flutes
>a gimmick at 2500fps
Nah senpai, not a huge fan of them at low velocity but they definitely do more work than RN or FN at high velocity.

full30.com/video/20437495d624b6be7456f87e1d40312b

full30.com/video/83fafb8fccd9c918aa476a9c96b86cce

Keep in mind these rounds were likely in the 2000 to 2300 fps range.
>apparently bullet construction doesnt matter and a bonded 5.56 round is "just a varmint round"
Are you new or just one of those rabid facklerites?
DESU fampai given the lower SD and higher velocity it might even tend to over penetrate less than common handgun rounds through typical housing materials. Wouldn't want to hang my hat on that without testing though.
Look at the actual loadings made for 9x25 some time and get back to me on that.
>i don't understand physics the post
I mean, that's why knocking somebody out is impossible, right? i mean one time i slowly applied pressure to my head that was greater than that!

I know this is vain, and it's just a little thing, but I wouldn't be able to deal with looking at this thing without some sort of compensator just to cover up the protruding barrel.

Thanks for those vid links, I'll have to check them out later tonight, been swamped with work

It's a non-expanding bullet, so you're half right. But the flutes aren't "for" penetration; a simple flat-nose would penetrate at least as well. They're to impart radial velocity to the target medium, supposedly causing tissue damage along the path. ("supposedly" in that I believe they do work in flesh, but I haven't yet seen enough evidence to conclusively prove it to those who disagree. Loading up 's videos now, maybe they're the evidence I need.)

Really? Cause I actually dig the skinny barrel look -- makes me want to put one of those barrels in a G22/G31 and press a front sight band onto the barrel for that P38 aesthetic. Unfortunately, that 9" barrel was either a custom or discontinued, can't find it on LW's website.

Not the original guy, but check this out... looks interesting

ebay.com/itm/Glock-16-Barrel-IGB-Austria-16-Inch-Barrel-for-Glock-17-Caliber-9x19-/232568834943

Might consider the 10" version in 357sig lol, it looks 'cool' and oh man... 10" 357sig barrel... I also like the idea of it being a shorter slide, less mass on the slide should reduce recoil, and obviously the added weight this setup would give at the tip of barrel would greatly reduce muzzle flip. Seems like this is designed to not interferior with standard height sights as well.

Gotta say I hate Glocks with a passion but that's a pretty bitchin looking range toy for that Detroit cyberpunk gimmick

Sorry, I thought you wanted something useful. 357SIG isn't going to be enough.

>shoot 62gr projectile at 2300 fps out of a 5.56 SBR
>USEFUL
>Shoot 65gr projectile out of a .357 long barreled pistol at 2300fps
>USELESS
Protip: calling something a "pistol" or "rifle" doesn't change it's damage stats like a fucking videogame or something.

What are you 357 Siglets going to do once UW releases their 9x25 65 grain load?

Make fun of the fact that all the velocity numbers are out of a 6" bbl which means it literally gains 50-100fps out of a comparable length bbl at the low low cost of 10 times less availability of platforms and ammo? oh, and the whole "for some reason boutique loaders thing it's a good idea to only use bullets designed for 9mm velocities in 9x25 loads" thing.

>only use bullets designed for 9mm velocities in 9x25 loads
Yeah, but this is a non-expanding solid copper thread, so that doesn't count.

In which case 9x25 will gain a resounding 50-100fps over .357 sig(apples to apples bbl wise) at the low low cost of not being able to fit in 9mm sized frames(EX g32), not being available in ANY brick/mortar stores, and not having ANY viable loadings on the market other than solid copper rounds.

In other words, with comparable bbl length .357 sig offers 98% of the memes and tangible benefits with almost none of the drawback of 9x25.

What barrel length did they test that velocity with?
It's probably already at least 6 inches or more. Manufacturers usually test their loads out of retarded long barrels just to inflate advertised velocities.

>is your house made of bricks
Why are American houses generally not made of bricks?

Wrong.
For UW loaded 124 grain bullets the velocity difference is much higher than 50-100 FPS. In fact, it’s 225 FPS - 1475 vs 1700. So if 357 is going 2100 9x25 would be approx 2325.

This may be more appropriate to a QTDDTOT thread, but this seems as appropriate a place as any.

Is there any way I can put a long slide/barrel on my 19? I'd love to put 34 or 17L length stoppin' powa with the slightly smaller grip in my pants.

Already came up a couple times in this thread, but all of Underwood’s 357 sig numbers come from a 4” test barrel.

Cost, and in some areas, seismic issues.

Does the bullet hold together at those velocities? I know there are some really hot 135gr jhp loads for 10mm that get sent around 14-1500fps which is screaming. The issue is the bullet doesn't hold together for penetration it just explodes. Don't get me wrong it would still be devastating but the lack of penetration is problematic for dropping the bad guy stone cold. I would be worried about the projectile integrity in this case as well.

Attached: 135gr.jpg (259x194, 4K)

Yes, it holds together no problem. It's not a jacketed bullet it's solid copper. These things can be shot through walls/bricks/whatever and maintain their shape/integrity just fine. They are pretty amazing. No matter what you do to the thing it always seems to deliver the same tissue damage and penetration depth.

Because this is a land of cheap traders

IIRC Lone Wolf sells an adapter piece that lets you use 17 slides on 19 frames. They also sell 17L length slides. That would be the simplest route. Or just buy a 17L and get a G19 length grip chop done.

Yep. You can use a standard 17, 34, or 17L slide and corresponding recoil spring, but you need a special aftermarket barrel with 19-type locking lug. (IIUC, a gen5 barrel is okay, too; they switched to using the 19-type locking lug for all barrel/slide lengths.) You don't need, but probably do want, a "slide adapter", basically a dust cover for the exposed portion of the recoil spring
Lone Wolf sells the barrels and slide adapter.
Barrels: lonewolfdist.com/Products.aspx?CAT=8128
Slide Adapter: lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=922564

when you think you can't make that gun uglier and you just keep going

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UW habitually under represents their .357 sig velocity while 9x25 is either right on the money or slightly high. Out of a 4" bbl I've never seen it average under 1510 FPS and i've seen it make averages as high as 1570 fps. That's a 130 to 190 fps advantage WITH AN EXTRA 2" OF BBL LENGTH. With a 4" bbl 9x25 would likely loose a good hundred fps or more, although i admit that im not aware of any real world data for 9x25 out of a 4" bbl.

youtube.com/watch?v=RRCBGfyx8Pk&t=697s

compare this to his tests of 9x25:

youtu.be/H_VXhkQkSz4?t=371

9x25 really doesn't offer all that much over .357 sig.
Solid copper, no issues there. somebody already posted a test in gel earlier.

Forgot to mention that all of those 9x25 loadings are using 9mm bullets as opposed to bullets actually designed for that velocity. It's doubtful that they would even hold together well enough to attain adequate penetration.

I'm sure Tyrone will appreciate your guns aesthetics while he's raping your husband.

What comp is that? Does it work well?

Thank you
That's exactly why I put it together
If only it had a giggle switch ;_;

>a physically bigger case that follows the same basic form factor of a .40 case head and a 9MM case mouth isn’t able to push bullets faster
Bruh.
>HP velocity windows in a solid bullet discussion
Bruh!

Carver Custom. And honestly it's pointless on a gun that long already shooting standard 9mm (haven't had the chance to shoot any really hot stuff). I just had this thing for wanting a ridiculously long pistol for a range toy for years, finally brake down and decided to.go for it, and a G17L with a ridiculous compensator was the longest thing I could find without expensive custom work. I've got an ALG mount in the mail to mount my T-1 to, so it will look like pic related, but even longer. It's such a stupid pointless gun, I love it.

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If I wanted that I would just buy ball ammo

>mean one time i slowly applied pressure to my head that was greater than that!
You do remember the part where it was claimed that load would blow chunks out of a guy after 3" Right

>just gonna go to the store and buy 2000fps+ ball ammo
Sure. Also see 's videos for real performance on these bullet designs in live meat.

Kek if you think .357 sig is within even 100 fps of 9x25 Dillon you need to stop huffing glue

WELL
MEME'D
MY
FINE
SIR
LOOOOOOOOOOOL
:DDDDDDDD

LOL
BRO
NONE
OF
THE
FIREARMS
I
OWN
LOOK
LIKE
THIS
AND
FOR
GOOD
REASON

THE
"GOOD"
REASON
IS
BECAUSE
YOU
HAVE
SHIT
TASTE

At that velocity though you're going to get at least carbine impact type temporary stretch and cavitation. Hydraulic shock and remote cns wounding/bleeding are only possible with rifle/carbine impact velocities. I'm more of a big and slow bullet fan, but you're talking m193/ss109 energy levels out of a pistol here. That's with a round that's 160% the diameter of the 5.56. I don't know that "lack of efficacy" would be my first worry with this particular firearm/ammo combination.