Why

...are US made AK's reportedly so terrible?

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because they cheaped out on materials and failed to make components correctly

Comparative Advantage
You should've learned this in high school Econ

Former commieblock countries have the tooling to mass produce AKs. We dont have that in the US so they are way more expensive to manufacture and quality is sacrificed

/thread

Comparative Advantage was obvious since it's... you know... Local. Still shitty cop out guns.

the gommunists didn't cheap out on metallurgy when they made their AKs. They put millions into the process of milling forgings and then heat treating them for decades of reliable service.

US companies mostly just mill them from 4140 bar stock because they have to keep the costs down in the $600-900 range

Book leanin' is for liberals.

Econ is for proper citizens

So...not Trumpkins?

Why do we have to have this topic 2-3x a day?

Because I wanted some damn info about US AK's. This is a board about weapons. The stars aligned for me.

100% agree, but US buyers' unwillingness to accept that our current domestic AK manufacturing base cannot put out sub $800 AKs isn't doing anyone any favors either.

Because they are not built to fight capitalist pigs. They are built by capitalist pigs.

To be fair, I agree with them. Now if someone in the US were to put out a truly superior product, it could command a premium price but this is a pretty old design that is already made incredibly well in other places.

It's simply not possible to justify paying more for an American AK (even a good one) than you would for a Bulgarian SLR.

American AKs will suck until someone in the States reinvents the AK (ala Galil or the M75) or somehow starts making more modern incarnations. Which will cost a fortune and probably never turn a profit.

TL:DR Never going to happen in the states. AR is king.

OP has made decision. I shall either save for foreign Kalash, or get an AR lower and build the rest over time. P.S. Will be first rifle.

WASRs are ~$700, Arsenals are around ~$1000.
If a US manufacturer tried to make an identical AK with all US made parts it would cost $2000+. The market for AKs in the US is smaller than you probably think. The market for $2000 AKs in the US is so small it's basically non-existent.

The US made AKs in the market today that try to compete with the imports' price points are scams. They prey on the ignorant who want an AK, for whatever reason want it to be US made, and will probably never shoot it enough to find out it's dogshit.

Imagine a small foreign company that tried to make an AR-15 from scratch that tried to compete with US made ARs that sell for $400 -$600. There's no way it would be as nice or as functional as the US made AR for the same price. A Russian company made an AR-15 recently and it costs $2040. And they had to import the forgings.

not enough competition and demand
if people will buy shit, there's little reason to improve your product if there is no competition

>2000 dollars
all you need is a press/ drillpress and a jig to drill the holes

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Did you build your own AK's to confirm this?

Are you legitimately fucking retarded or did you just not read the thread?

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>If a US manufacturer tried to make an identical AK with all US made parts it would cost $2000+.
This, it would be even worse if everything was done in house. Barrels are expensive as fuck to make, the machines cost a small fortune. You'd need to sell 500 rifles just to cover the cost of the machine itself. That's not counting the tooling and labor to run it, let alone all the other costs in the rifle because it sure as fuck isn't $2000 of profit.

GFM hammer forges run an excess of 1.5 million dollars.
The hammers used to forge the barrel blanks are $3,000 each
The carbide mandrels used to make the rifling are around 3,000- $5000 each

Button rifling is a bit cheaper, that's what I was using.

Lurk more. This topic is a new thread every 3rd day, always with the same answers. It should be on the fucking sticky

We don't drink enough vodka to make proper slavshit.

Yes

I know all that stuff cost over that much but you should own it anyways non mechanically inclined people don't belong on Jow Forums

>Bending a fucking receiver is the same as making the whole thing from scratch

>americans don't have the capacity to bend 1mm metal
>americans can't cast there own trunion
>americans can't run a lathe to mass produce gas pistons

I wouldn't know. I own a Serbian AK myself.
That AK in OP looks abominable though.

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Can you explain how to position the gas port in the barrel, and how to calculate the size of the port for correct cycling?

I have a 2015 DDI with about 1200 rounds through it, no issues.

This was when they were using Bulgarian parts kits still though, idk if I'm sitting on a time bomb or not, I just give all the rivets and wear points a once over after firing.

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*2016 actually

This.

99% of this thread is retards. Typically, the problem with US AKs is that they make everything out of the same steel, they heat-treat everything, or they ship them without perfect headspacing.
AKs are NOT expensive to manufacture. Neither are barrels. Otherwise Green Mountain would be out of business and every gun, ever, would cost $2000. Idiots.
The problem is like when the hammer is as tough as the bolt, it deforms the bolt. The hammer should be softer metal. It's little things like that where the US manufacturers screw up.

Kalashnikov USA is coming out with AKs with forged steel trunnions

I've never had a problem with my century arms ras-47. Excellent build quality compared to my romanian and yugo ak's, and more reliable as well.

Wouldn't be hard most post are a few thousands over a 8th inch I ussaly just line the tube up and use an extended drill through the tube to do it

you won't be saying that in 5000 rounds when the shitty cast steel pieces break

2nd

>Econ is
B U L L S H I T

wubba lubba dub dub

PSA about american AK's because most people here don't actually know shit.

If the AKOU, MAC, ARG, and numerous smaller channels videos of failing rifles don't convince you, I'm here to change that!

I owned a RAS47 for 2 years with a total of 3,000-4000rds through the bitch.

>Bought the gun
>Defended it like crazy
>Malfunctions start happening
>Bolt looks like shit
>Send rifle into century
>New bolt and carrier, hand-written note saying "Bad Magazines" Great fucking fix century
>Malfunctions persist but I learn to clear them faster and continue to defend the gun
>Start working behind gun counter
>Have long conversations about build quality, see all the shit that century pushes out, learn to shut the fuck up and just listen to people
>Start criticizing my rifle, requiring it does better
>Start buying better guns
>Keep shooting my RAS hoping it turns around
>Finally notice chip in right trunnion locking lug
>Sold that shit to someone who never shoots so I don't feel that bad
>Bought a WASR
>Happiness has been achieved

It's not about the accuracy or fit and finish, an AK comes down to reliability and durability. Most American AKs have neither.

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>>Econ is
>B U L L S H I T

youtube.com/watch?v=h7yfaSTSxBQ&list=PL5itZsLYIIJt2x9iZLxgBmt-cfS5GEhoE&t=0s&index=11

1930s era manufacturing technology means the rifle is expensive to produce, citizens typically aren't willing to pay $1,500+ for an AK, and there are no police/government contracts to pay for them.

The 1960s/70s manufacturing technology the AR-15 is designed for works quite well in 2018.

When is the last time you used an honest to god riveted together stamped sheet steel machine?

Even cars are sometimes made of plastic and aluminum these days, and riveting is mostly antiquated outside of special applications, in favor of welding or fasteners.

Or I could be wrong, who cares.

Is the Century AK-63 decent?

>sold them an unexploded bomb

Nice.

I wonder how much a mosin would cost to make from scratch these days.

Kalashnikov USA was shut down for investigation in regards to violating Russian sanctions and continuing to import Russian kits and parts through the Israeli conglomerate that owns the company.

They don't get blessed before leaving the factory

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>he doesn't know about cast turnnions

youtube.com/watch?v=i03Kic5gaRs&t=528s

my wasr runs circles around your pos india casted turd, i could forge trunnions out of dog turds that would hold pressure better than century's poo made potmetal

I have one of those too. their parts kits are just fine, its just their made in america ones that suck.

Russia is capitalist as fuck now

reeeeeeee i'm so sick of this "Ebil russia" horseshit, how does getting rid of such a small part of their economy even hurt them, they continue to export large amounts of raw goods to the u.s, it's just backdoor gun control wrapped in a banner of patriotardom and fudd-boomer lore

>They don't get blessed before leaving the factory
Imagine if something this happened in the US.. there'd be riots, there'd be investigations, people would get fired, factory workers would be laid off, CEO would be brought in front of congress, Twitter would be outraged, Libtards would losing their shit and would scream "WE ARE ALL MUSLIM", media jews would rub their dirty greedy hands and would call for an impeachment.... I'm sure I'm missing a lot.

Bear with it, both parties will use this russia shit for ages. Russia is too convenient for this, it is mostly white, so no one is afraid of racism blaming, it is not communist, so that both left and right can scold it.

I'd probably be somewhat like when they found out there were references to bible verses on military ACOGs.

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It also doesn't happen that the Kalashnikov USA HQ was like 13 miles away from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School so obvious misplaced outrage because the kid happened to buy an AK variant in the months prior.

The investigation will probably come up with stone cold nothing but it probably put the nail in the coffin for the company because they were unable to manufacture or distribute anything during the investigation and probably won't want to sink the money into starting it back up.

I know you can find some of their 7.62 receivers that you can build a kit around but god knows what will actually fit them. I'm mostly disappointed because I was looking forward to their Vityaz variant. I'm not sold on the Draco 9mm but looks like that's were I'm going to have to land.

If I went to Russia and found a way to get a surplus ak and I cut it up to add spec could I ship it back to my house?

ATF * not add

You can not just buy the gun in Russia, too much legal hassle.

That's why I said found a way to obtain it I didn't say is obtain it legally i just want to know if I band saw or torch cut into the peices could I import it even with the sanctions since i already own it i wouldn't be buying it from russia

No, but people do it. By the way, the ATF doesn't allow saw cut kits anymore, although i've seen new "single saw cut kits" shipping from eastern europe.

"why are AKs so terrible?"

FTFY

>ARs
FIFY

Kek only 1,200 rounds. Shoot more.

If it's a parts kit you shouldn't look that much at the rivets, you should pay close attention at the hammer and trigger pin holes since the receiver might be shit, unhardened properly.

Accedently drilled into my rivet can I just weld it and it will be ok?

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Not that much, it's just a matter of simply machining on some basic lathe and mills some stock steel rods

drill here next time 5mm & 7mm.

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I was just using the ak builder jig

Casting the trunions is why theyre shit.

>casting ^cheap trunions is why theyre shit
FIFY if they went to a good foundry they wouldnt have this problem

Would American cast AKs hold up better if they were chambered in 5.56/.223?

Probably not since 5.56 NATO is a higher pressure round putting more stress on the system.

5.56x45mm=55,000 PSI
7.62x39mm=45,010 PSI

That gun reminded me of the Chinese gun...........
type 81,it’s not a copy of the ak 47 tho.

I don't think its a good idea to cast ak trunions period. It was designed to be a forging however that would be expansive, US manufactures should mill from bar stock.

This. It's always someone who just doesn't give enough of a fuck.

Century made AKs? Horrible
But if Ruger gave it a try, I think they'd be able to do it just fine.

There's nothing like a capitalist killing a communist with his own weapon.

Maybe like 500 to 600 dollars or so, at the most.

You STILL wouldn't get the same strength. Forgings, regardless of metal used, are a whole degree higher in strength than most anything you will find made from bar stock.

And with the wonky as fuck way the AK47 was engineered, with the kind of round it fires, there is no good way to work around this.

Companies are infinitely better off just buying the forged components from Bulgaria or Russia, though that currently is off the table, if these companies would sell them the components at all because why sell components if you can sell rifles through century, for dollars on the penny.

People have the stereotype of the AK as being this extremely cheap rifle. Which is sort of true, if you manufacture them in the hundreds of thousands. The AK is designed to benefit from economy of scale. But if you're a small shop that's producing a limited number of rifles for the civilian market, the AR is actually vastly more economical to manufacture. As a result, ARs are incredibly cheap now. This is a problem for the AK, because the main advantage that it used to have is now gone. Now the only people who are going to buy AKs are rappers and people who really like AKs. The people who really like AKs are always going to prefer ones that were originally manufactured in Warsaw Pact Nations. Which means the market you're left with as an American company trying to produce AKs is predominantly wannabe rappers and white trash. Both of these demographics are poor as shit, which means you have to keep the price down as much as possible. And the fact of the matter is that a small shop simply cannot manufacture an AK to the standard of quality that people expect while still competing with the AR on price.

And so all the US made AKs are shitty because that's the only way the manufacturer can break even.

I AM GOING TO BUY ONE NOW AND SEE HOW BAD OR BETTER THEY HAVE BECOME COME AT ME

So this c39v2 is shit? When will it blow up?

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When it feels like blowing up.

Thx summer

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Conclusion: To have best AK's possible, we need either to take a Russian Gun Factory (along all employees and other capital), drop it somewhere ideal in the US (give them citizenship) and convince a few million people to buy said AK's, or have the import bans lifted. If neither are feasible, then it's AR-15, WASR 10, anything that isn't a US AK, or bust.

Import bans would be the easiest out of all that.

As long as this political Red Shift continues in the Supreme Court, and areas related to commerce and arms trade continues up to 2020 then we'll have some decent AK's.

>ruger ak
fuck, now i want this to exist

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We'd have to get past some protectionist sentiments of the Reps first, and also the whole MUH RUSSIA of the Dems. It'll be possible, but it's not going to be easy.

Trump getting to nominate two supreme court judges can possibly be very powerful though.

Well Ruger might be able to make a decent one, but even though they do really good casting I'm still not sure it would hold up.

Says the retard who bought a c39v2 and a fucking JTS 12. Lurk moar faggot your guns are shit

They could do it, if anyone could make an investment cast AK receiver, it would be them.
Some parts might be non-standard, but it'll probably be a decent rifle.

The question is, if they make one in 5.56mm (or .300BLK), will it use AR15 magazines, will it use an existing pattern of 5.56mm AK magazines, or will they use Mini-14 magazines, since they would readily fit the AK style (natural curve, all steel, rock-in insertion).
I'd be fine with any of these possibilities.

We could always lift the import bans of other AK countries, and have the bans only affect Russia as a compromise. Not perfect but it could work.

No need, mini 30's already exist.

yeah but those are trash

They're the leading experts in investment castings in North America, so I would actually trust them to give it a good shot, certainly more than I would Century.

They might do a non-standard receiver setup (perhaps using a bit more of an AR15 style of attaching a barrel, in which case, maybe the receiver can be made of aluminum), but they might also just go with a forged trunnion. This is all speculation though.

People aren't exactly rushing out to buy Mini-30s, with an AK, they would be able to fill this lingering market gap that Century is busy taking a shit into.
Ruger has changed a lot in the 21st century, who knows that they'll do.

Well, who else is import banned? China? The protectionists will absolutely fight that.
Norinco AKs would be very good value though.

>mini 30

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Blessings in Orthodoxy and Catholicism can't be transferred by sale.
It works for military property (not actually sold)
Not civilian purchase.
The civvy would have to take it to their local priest