>almost 2019 >not carrying a 357, God's gift to mankind
What is your excuse Jow Forums? Sure 9mm is adequate, I guess... 45 is big and won wars, no arguing there. But dat 357 smokes both out of the water in power, penetration through barriers and reliability. Recoil is less than a 40 short and weak, while having the same capacity and much more power.
Hell even 10mm loads usually come in with less power than the good 357 shit. And don't get me started on the recoil of that thing. Yikes. Would not want to have to sling a couple fast rounds into a charging Tyrone with that thing.
>10mm usually comes with less power than good 357 >10mm has more recoil Nigger, do you even understand physics? how can a round have more power, but less recoil? That makes zero fucking sense.
Ayden Perry
This is actually an option I've been looking into because Fuck it why not.
Cameron Allen
Avatar posting is a bannable offense.
Luke Martin
>10x25 dillon > read the numbers > poor imitation of muh 327 feels good to be a gangster
Angel Ward
>10x25 dillon No such thing.
>Nigger, do you even understand physics? Do you? Kinetic energy is ½mv2; recoil is just mv (ignoring the momentum of propellant gas). A half-mass bullet travelling 50% faster has 12% more energy, but 25% less recoil.
Cooper Russell
>When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.
Literally the 3rd law of physics. You arent going to magically going to have a more powerful projectile out of the same handgun that magically has less recoil.
Recoil is kinetic energy. it doesnt follow some different equation. Fucking retard.
Nicholas Collins
After years of terminal ballistics research as a hobby i've realized this is more or less right. Until somebody comes out with a 7.2x22mm round or something like that offering mild expansion and reliably a bit over 2000fps allowing for meaningful wounding from TSC with acceptable recoil the best calibers for the non recoil adverse are going to be .357 sig and .45 acp. The former offers the best available post barrier performance, energy/velocity on target, while allowing for plentiful capacity, controllable recoil, and even usage of meme rounds with well over 2000FPS velocity. The latter makes the most sense for situations where post barrier performance and capacity aren't crucial concerns(aka almost all civilian CCW use) due to its massive expansion with adequate penetration. 9mms only real place is for those larping about capacity(realistically a non issue for civilians) and those who simply cant handle the recoil of more potent calibers. >357 sig at 1319fps That isn't even an honest comparison. Also: >dying gel "wound tracks" like gel actually depicts real world wound volumes 9x25D is TBQH shit with ANY loading i've seen chrono'd when you take barrel length into account. Were talking like a 50fps gain over .357 sig with same manufacturer and weight loadings for dealing with its numerous drawbacks.
Ryder Williams
>What is your excuse Jow Forums? I'm not retarded or trying to justify a purchase to random jerkoffs on 4chin.
Adam Ross
Another thread, OP?
Grayson Ross
>"ah yes, here we have the keyboard ballistics expert in it's natural environment."
Julian White
>gel test >because we only shoot blocks of gel This is why the FBI got BTFO'd in Miami.
Adrian Nelson
They're called sidearms for a reason user.
Jason Flores
>be patrician, shoot Underwood Xtreme Defender in 10mm, just as the Lord intended >be manlet, shoot .357 SIG which is just 9mm +P, but with Sig’s name attached to it
Lmaoing at you.
Matthew Bennett
>After years of terminal ballistics research as a hobby i've realized this is more or less right. Until somebody comes out with a 7.2x22mm round or something like that offering mild expansion and reliably a bit over 2000fps allowing for meaningful wounding from TSC with acceptable recoil the best calibers for the non recoil adverse are going to be .357 sig and .45 acp
>When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body. Right on. Same force. And work is force times distance, right? That force (let's say 1200 pounds for convenience) is applied to the bullet accelerating it through a distance of, say, 4 inches; the work done to, and thus the kinetic energy gained by, the bullet is: (1200 pounds)(4 inches) = 400 ft*lb Meanwhile, the slide and barrel are accelerated in the opposite direction by the same 1200lb, but due to their greater mass, move a shorter distance, about 0.1". The work done on, and thus the energy gained by, the slide and barrel, is: (1200 pounds)(0.1 inch) = 10 ft*lb
TL;DR: Recoil is momentum, not kinetic energy, and you're the fucking retard.
Jacob Cruz
Feel free to start arguing at any time. Im conversant in everything from fackler or GKR to dimaio or courtney & courtney with a whole lot inbetween, i've literally got folders of actual ballistics studies and journals i've managed to scrounge up over the years to base my opinions on. >1700fps from a 6" bbl >super mcmanly >2100fps out of a 4" bbl >manlet Oh and inb4 you try to act like the extra 90ftlbs somehow makes up for that when you're talking about a cavitating bullet design that's much more so reliant on velocity than anything else. FYI out of a same length barrel the .357sig would be hitting about 2300fps with slightly more energy than the 10mm.
Logan Peterson
>the manlet just makes up numbers with no source to appease his (((Cohen))) masters
Beautiful.
Aiden Taylor
Reaction images have been part of board culture since the beginning, faggot. So has spotty rule enforcement.
energy that a body possesses by virtue of being in motion.
Both the bullet and firearm have momentum and kinetic energy you retard. Im not disputing that. What im saying is that its impossible for a projectile to have more energy and create less recoil.
>What im saying is that its impossible for a projectile to have more energy and create less recoil. And that's wrong, and I showed you why it's wrong, but you can't understand it because you're an idiot.
For fuck's sake, if you can't handle the math, go fucking shoot a gun sometime. Shoot a 9mm with some 147gr and some Liberty or Lehigh meme bullets, and feel the difference in recoil.
Jeremiah Cooper
>still no sources other than noncontextual, noncredited screenshots Here you go. I did the work for you. Enjoy your overpriced Jew round. youtu.be/P3lKNo2GbXo youtu.be/ughIFOrIP_w
Christian Thomas
>oh look, I can make an apples-to-oranges comparison to make the round I don't like look bad Yeah, you wanna see my comparison of 10mm FBI loads to XD .357sig? Of course you don't because that would be stupid. Now take those hollow-points and stuff them up your nose.
And those screenshots from Underwood's website? Yeah, they're obviously from Underwood's website.
Samuel Howard
>recoil hurts his babby wrists >”it’s a meme round!”
Every time.
Zachary Hughes
You stupid ass faggot, they have LESS recoil than 147gr. You really are a noguns retard, aren't you?
Henry Miller
>mocking someone over recoil I bet you don't even shoot slugs out of 12 gauge pistols, fag
Alexander Flores
Why would you intentionally slow down your followup shots by sometimes as much as a quarter second for a negligable gain in outbound damage? You're gonna shoot the dude a bunch anyway, it's not like 7 rounds of 9mm is going to do significantly less damage than 7 rounds of whatever the fuck else. >inb4 "lol dudes have taken 15 rounds to the chest" etc It's not actually a significant difference with handguns
Nolan Powell
Ive shot a lot of different ammo. And oddly enough, the rounds with more energy, recoiled harder. Who wouldve fucking guessed? My USP recoiled harder than my glock 19. Hmmm. I really wonder why. The 9mm projectile is moving faster but has a lighter round. With your autistic logic, my USP shouldnt have more recoil. Which is even stranger because the USP is objectively heavier, the slide moves objectively further, and the recoil spring is objectively better. Those 3 things should make it recoil even less. But for some fuck odd reason, this gun that is firing an objectively more energetic round consistently, with a 100% success rate, recoils harder than the glock 19.
Connor Mitchell
because you’re most likely going to draw and just fucking rapid fire from no more that five feet away. If you’re in a situation where you have the time to assume proper stance and perform proper technique, then you have time to book it. CC is meant as an absolute last resort. Not as a first resort nor as an excuse to play hero.
Cooper Anderson
>you're just going to draw and rapid fire so get the less controllable round Ok
William Adams
>What im saying is that its impossible for a projectile to have more energy and create less recoil. Was it shooting a lighter bullet at higher velocity? No, of course not. It was shooting a heavier bullet at similar velocity, so of course it recoils more. I suggested you compare heavy+slow vs. light+fast bullets in the same gun, but you're comparing heavy+slow in one gun vs. even heavier+slow in a different gun. It's like you're deliberately choosing not to understand anything I say, almost as if you were pretending to be retarded.
Brody Price
If it's so good how come no one uses it?
Nicholas Rodriguez
>if you have the 1 second it takes to use your sights you should just run bro! >you'll never have a threat inside your own home >or when you're cornered >or have to defend a loved one >or have to deal with a spree shooter >lol, you dont need to aim, just RUN BRO Leave any time
Jace Gonzalez
Okay fine, shooting 147 grain +p out of my glock 19 always recoiled harder than 115 grain.
115 gr @1125 FPS always had softer recoil than the 147 grain round @1050 FPS.
One round is objectively lighter and faster than the other. One round is objectively less energetic than the other. One round had objectively less recoil than the other.
Those 3 statements have one thing in common.
>pro tip Theyre only applicable to one of the two cartridges I listed.
Julian Phillips
It's literally the fucking source you originally posted. another user even made screenshots. You really shouldn't be calling other people a jew RN.
Hunter White
>literally a 9mm +P >only has the capacity of .40 >bullet set back is a thing you need to watch for or else you kaboom
Aiden Gutierrez
>115gr plinking ammo Way to cherry pick. Did you miss where I said Liberty or Lehigh? You know, light fast rounds that AREN'T underloaded junk? Ones that have MORE energy than 147gr, and yet recoil the same or less?
Elijah Wilson
>compare two different bullets one of which is lighter and faster than the other
>NO NOT THOSE ONES REEEEEEEEE
Nicholas Martinez
That's it. I'm done. You know I said that clear back in , so you're just pretending you can't read now. Fuck you, you miserable faggot.
Aiden Smith
Sorry, fag. Details do matter. You don't get to just gloss over details when it's convenient to you.
Adam Moore
>I’m going to put more energy into this lighter object over the same distance as this heavy object but somehow the energy that is pushing back is going to be less.
>this lighter projectile with more energy is somehow going to produce less recoil than this other projectile with less energy.
Luis Butler
>several LEAs including the secret service >If it's so good how come no one uses it? wut? >literally a 9mm +P >9mm +p is aprx 124gr at 1200fps >.357 sig is aprx 125 grs at 1500fps no >bullet set back is a thing you need to watch for or else you kaboom Honestly never been a problem for me, i always eyeball my rounds before/after chambering and haven't really had set back issues with .357, .40, .45, or 9mm. but then i make it a point to only chamber a round a dozen or so times before cycling it out. Only notable "issue" i've had is .45 JHPs proclivity for getting noticeably more beat up than other calibers. Thinks its a combination of the large frontal area, feed angle, and maybe slightly softer materials for expansion at lower velocity.
Bentley Clark
>how can a round have more power, but less recoil? That makes zero fucking sense. But it's true.If it makes no sense to you, well, that says more about you than about physics.
Note the 125@1450 load has more energy than 140@1323 or 158@1250, yet recoils considerably less. Also note that 140@1323 and 158@1250 are within 1% muzzle energy, but 158@1250 has 10% more recoil.
this, and it's always the glockfag boomers that are posting about 10mm and .357 sig
Eli Rodriguez
nigger do I look like a camera
Jaxson Gutierrez
>39923169 Nogunz, ignored, no more (You)s for you.
Eli Parker
I don't need to prove a damn thing to you, kiddo
David Carter
10mm faggit
Nicholas Collins
Did you mean 9?
Mason Nelson
> .357 Sig > 6.5x55/CM/Grendel, bur never .260 Rem or .264 Win Mag > Tikka rifles > PSA rifles > 77gr TMKs Not saying these are good or bad, just compiling a list of stuff Jow Forums seems to talk about more than other gun sites or forums.
I would have put .327 Fed Mag on there, but I don't think we have enough revolver anons.
James Barnes
Brainlet detected
Holy wew
Liberty 10mm 60 gr. Fucking railgun
How do you conceal that mag though? Will say though, that scene in Snatch when the pikeys unload with super short sawed offs was lit. Definitely concealable
Logan Morales
Alright well I’m gonna go with the laws of motion that have been proven for over 3 centuries rather than some random retard with a .com.
Dylan Moore
Faster lighter bullets always recoil less than comparably loaded heavier and slower ones.
Joseph Fisher
why not just shoot what you can afford and are comfortable shooting with
Ian Long
arguing about and carrying woman calibers shameful display
Hmm I wonder why. Could be the fact that lighter rounds tend to require less force to get them going faster than their heavier counterparts.
Colton Ross
This.
Andrew Russell
>I'm gonna go with the laws of motion >doesn't understand the laws of motion Fuck off, retard.
Andrew Baker
.357 sig has widely available compressed loads that are more resistant to set back than 9, .40, .45 etc. For that matter you should check any rounds for set back anyways as all calibers are susceptible. Acting like setback is a critical flaw of .357 sig reeks of ignorance or attempting to make mountains out of mole hills to justify your pre existing bias. >People who actually kill other people use 9s What? people who kill people use everything from .32 to 10mm including .357 sig. That's a complete non argument.
Gabriel Scott
Necked handgun ammo is stupid.
Cooper Ward
>Liberty 10mm 60 gr. Fucking railgun this. 357SIG fags firmly but fairly btfo
Hudson Rogers
The laws of motion strictly state that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So to propel a projectile in one direction with more energy, be it through velocity or weight, there is going to be more energy going in the opposite direction. More energy = more recoil.
People with the option to kill people with whatever they like overwhelmingly use 9s*
Better?
Kevin Gomez
Because needle dicks who don't actually shoot need to feel special with snowflake calibers. And yes, I know you fags don't shoot, look at how they actually handle the recoil they brag about at Jow Forums meetups. >Loosing controlled grip on 45aarp while shooting >"lol wristlet" online >This is the same person The fact is, handguns suck at energy delivery. The all do, till you get to serious magnum energy, or lower level magnums out of rifle length barrels t. Michigander living south enough to have to take dear with a .357 lever gat Handguns need to hit the CNS for a one shot drop most of the time. Dumping 300ft lbs or 480ft lbs of energy isn't typically going to matter half as much as a round that will reliably hit the spine through clothing and flesh, and if you carry as part of your job, light barricades. It's faggots arguing like faggots. Carry the round that you shoot best in the gun you shoot best, and preferably with enough ammunition where you can dump well aimed follow up shots. Anything else is just talk from people who spend more time riding dragon dildos than shooting.
Newton's 3rd law applies to mass times velocity, my dude. KE is half the mass times velocity square. I can throw a 7kg bowling ball at .85 m/s for the same momentum (i.e. recoil) as throwing a .15kg baseball at 40m/s. But there's more energy required to get that baseball moving and to stop it, if you accept KE as a valid metric for effectiveness.
Isaiah Gray
>.45 THE meme caliber >muh two wrol wors >muh stoppan powa
Depending on barrel length 9x25 is about 150-225 fps faster than 357sig (125gr gold dots). 800ftlbs vs 600 ftlbs. Maybe you should go back to ballistics school.
