Alright fellas so heres the deal. Im in the market for a rifle, no specific purpose other than a rifle caliber firearm. Im not looking to do mag dumps or anything wild. Just something to shoot a box or two at the range for fun with friends. I dont want a cheap AR because all my buddies also have AR's and i can just shoot theirs. What ive found is below:
SU16-CA Pros I can take it anywhere in the US and its legal...for now. Cheap, fair amount of parts and DIY stuff. For its price can afford more parts like an optic. Cons General rumors of poor reliability among Kel-Tec firearms. Poor accuracy after the barrel gets warm.
RDB Pros It looks neat and will probably catch some attention. Cons Same as above. Lack of support. Poor accuracy.
RFB-(used) Pros .308 pretty much same as RDB Cons Issues with using various ammunition. Poor accuracy.
Theres a few oddballs too. Recently at auction i caught a vz58 and a l1a1 for roughly $700. These guys are kinda dream guns for me but they are fairly old and worn in appearance. I can save a bit of money buying them and score some pretty neat guns, but the price for potential repairs can be a killing factor. I have pictures if anyone is interested. There were also SKS and vz52 but i dont wanna get stuff thats too old.
If anyone has owned any of these guys chime in. Im curious what your opinions are.
>SU-16 for 1k Are you sure you aren’t over paying? Even Cabela’s has those for half price and they nickel n dime you.
Xavier Ross
Its 500. i said i can spend the extra 500 on a really nice optic and some extra accessories.
Dylan Robinson
Get a lever gun or some milsurp.
Adam Nguyen
if you do go for the vz58, get a czechpoint made one, not a centruy vz2000. speaking of which, out of all your choices the vz52 would be my choice. its the most "practical" rifle out of the group. also, i think its kind of underrated as a firearm in general.
Leo Barnes
Marlin repeaters are like 1k for a gun that shoots handgun ammo. Same with winchester 94's. Waste of money for something thats purely novelty. Same with some milsurp rifle from the early 20th century. Id probably get a M1903 though if i had to choose. Represent. >Pic Related
Your opinion was factually incorrect you fucking moron.
Jayden Hughes
>I dont have to buy an AR when my family owns AR. I can literally go over to their house any time to shoot their AR im not going to waste my money. you aren't wasting your money by buying your own AR instead of planning to borrow someone else's.
seriously. buy what you want, but for a first rifle of your own, AR15 is the only choice. you are living in a time when extremely high quality ARs are as cheap as dirt. buying some contrarian shit right now is absolutely plebeian.
owning your own AR allows you to customize it to your liking, while teaching you the care, maintenance, and operation of the most common rifle in the most common rifle caliber in america today.
Ayden Gonzalez
Forgot to mention but yeah your right theyre kinda cheaper than i said, but they are also lever action, and have the max capacity of some handguns.
Samuel Russell
im pretty sure thats a vz2000, but im not completely sure. the 2000 isnt a bad gun either, its just that theyve crept up in price and now theyre only a few hundred away from the "real deal"
Caleb Cook
Ive shot plenty of AR and you learn the platform you own. I dont gain anything buy buying an AR other than owning an AR. Im not new to rifles, this is just the first rifle i will actually own to my name. Cant believe this is a difficult concept for some people.
The L1A1 was roughly the same price. Would really like one and dunno, maybe they will be rare in 20 or so years.
Give the ares / fightlite SCR a look. Supports any AR Upper while not technically being an AR Lower. I've seen these for 6 - 800 depending on the seller. Great option for those of us in shitty blue states.
Landon Rivera
Yeah i was looking at those new Berettas but im a little iff on actually holding one. They look beefy as fuck. Kinda forgot about them after seeing them once
>handgun ammo So get a Henry Long Ranger in .308, or a Marlin 1895 in .45-70.
Benjamin Harris
you know how to operate an AR, but do you know how to maintain one? do you understand how to tune them? have you ever shot one that's customized to your preferences of optic, weight, stock type, gas length, accessories?
seriously, if you want to waste your money, go ahead. in terms of value for money, you cannot beat an AR right now. you're going to buy some crappier gun and figure out it isn't as good as an AR in a few months, or become a stubborn neofudd who convinces himself that his tavor is justasgood and retard your progress as a rifle user.
>L1A1 jesus fuck
Sebastian Martinez
Just throwing ideas out there. Clearview Investments AMD-65s aren't a bad deal either. Only problem is the barrels won't hold up long term, but if you're not mag dumping/firing off a lot of ammo it shouldn't be a problem.
Looks neat but i dont like it. Would make an interesting pistol. I remember seeing a video where a man fired it and reported it was unwieldy due to its grip.
You guys like arguing dont you?
Not a bad idea.
I saw a Galil at the local gun store and it was really pretty. Not too sure how it handles but its not really concerning. If i was interested in accuracy id just get a ruger precision rifle.
Since nobody else chimed in on the l1a1 yet, avoid the FUCK out of that thing FAL pattern rifles come in two main flavors: metric pattern, and inch pattern. The two types have some modifications and other clearance differences, but Century didnt let that stop them! They slapped together a horrible, frankensteinish mismash of the two that will eventually blow up and constantly malfunction in the meantime
If you want a battle rifle, buy a PTR91 NOW WITH ORIGINAL SPEC COCKING TUBES FUCK YES I'M SO HAPPY MY BITCHING WASN'T FOR NOTHING
I just bought an SU16ca. Not OP by the way but a Mini 14 was $200 out of my price range.
Ian Garcia
Think I might settle for a su16ca. It's easy to carry in a bag.
Jaxon Davis
>extra 500 on a really nice optic
I hate to break it to you boss but $500 is nowhere close to "really nice" optic money.
Landon Bennett
Majority of Jow Forums are poorfags who complain about budget guns and pretend they own decent guns by just regurgitating what their favorite streamers say about them. Jow Forumschimps are basically entitled redditfags with their virginity still intact. You might as well just have your local fudd choose a rifle for you
I like hearing everyones opinions. Seems like everyones a fudd. I hear that term thrown around for literally anything opposite to someone's opinion. So long as it can punch holes in a target it does it job imo.
Jackson Ward
>I dont want an AR, the cheapest and best of the options for my purpose, solely to be a contratian. Fuck off faggot. >all my buddies have ARs You dont have friends, but if you did, and they had ARs, you'd want to be running the same system as them.
Juan Allen
Oh God no optic tier -
Dominic Rivera
You're not going to change my opinion at that rate. Might as well hide my thread. I've already heard the talking points and I have my reasons. I'm not interested in owning an AR at the moment.
Nathan Hughes
I already gave tour thread 3 seconds, troll threads arent allowed out side /b/
Hudson Ward
>cucked state
>SKS >VEPR sporter config in 5.45, 7.62, 5.56, ect >older Marlins >Henry or Winchester >milsurp >those hunter style ARs >Ruger American >CZ 527 >Savage Axis with some peeps or optics
Why are optics so expensive? What are you getting in a $1500 optic you're not getting in a $500 optic?
Henry Mitchell
>Why do nice standup mirrors cost $1000, I can just go to Target during campus move in and get one for $15 Glass and mirrors how do they work?
Kayden Gray
That's not an answer to the question. What are you paying the extra $1,000 for? Is it better QC, better designs? Better materials? Better workmanship? Or are these just legacy prices from when some guy had to build scopes by hand before automated precision machining became widespread?
Leo Young
Yeah nobody really knows, they just pay it because they have to if they want a good optic. A $3,000 scope still only has like $30 worth of parts in it
Andrew Torres
Everyone that complies to the new california gun laws are cowards and should just neck yourselves.
Brayden Murphy
OP here I just like how kel-tec rifles stow/carry easy.
Isaac Bennett
1) materials: quality of the glass itself. Optical glass is a whole different beast from a beer bottle.
2) quality and composition of the coatings applied to the glass. Cheap optics have no or cheap coatings. Good optics have good coatings.
3) Workmanship, especially precision. Quality lenses will be held to incredibly tight tolerances. A lens requires much more than 0.001" precision.
The workmanship also matters in terms of assembly. Is it assembled by trained experts in cleanrooms? Or is it assembled by a commie political reeducation prisoner in a prison who doesn't give a fuck if your reticle is a little tilted?
...there is very little innovation in terms of scopes. It's really all about materials and precision of workmanship.
Zachary Johnson
Good luck finding one in stock. I snagged mine the day my LGS' distributor got them in stock again.
Jack Barnes
SKS can be pretty fun and use the same round as an AK but are MUCH cheaper!
have you not compared different scopes, either at a gun shop or perhaps on different rifles that you, your family, your friends, whatever, own? The difference between cheap optics and nice optics is HUGE.
And I hate to say it, but a lot of the Chinese brands are becoming good value for money. No, they are not as nice as a high-end brand, but they do perform better than their price would imply. I have Hawkes on two of my air rifles and I am happy with them.
Luis Phillips
>Thats not an answer It is an answer you're just too retarded to read between the lines. That isn't surprising though considering your track record of questions
Mason Johnson
I've literally only ever shot irons, which is why I'm asking questions. I don't know, and wish to learn.
Jaxon Cook
they had alot of untouched sks at the auction house. gotta avoid online shopping to find a good sks.
Julian Carter
Isn't that a fucking Soviet at rifle He asked for a regular rifle
Jordan Stewart
good lord, there's no way that thing doesn't sock ya in the eye with every round
I love the angle at which the ACOG seems to be mounted relative to the barrel. I can't tell if it's supposed to be zeroed at 6 inches or if it's meant to volley fire at 1500 yards.
Kevin Lopez
And nobody mentions the optic costs more than the entire rifle?
Asher Watson
Most of my optics cost more than the rifles they are on.
Though I will agree that is a particularly egregious difference in price.
Hudson Clark
I don't really have a problem with it to be honest, it's a fine rifle and a fine optic, I just wish the guy would have mounted it correctly
Don't listen to that fag op, there's nothing wrong with just wanting something different for a change. A man can only have chili and beer for dinner so many times before he wants something else. It ain't because the chili is bad, or that beer is bad, it's just because it gets boring. Guns are the same. ARs are boring. I will never understand this no matter how many times people explain it. A car costs as much as a "medium tier" optic where I live according to this. I can, and have, go out right now and buy a car off some schmuck that'll last me 3-4 years for $600-1000, yet opticfags will shit on anything less than $600. Call me a poorfag all you want, because it's true, but it just don't make no sense to my low iq brain. I can't see any possible process that would make it so goddamn expensive.
ive also seriously debated getting an RFB but the only relevant info I can get is that its a battle rifle-lite that shoots .308. I'd like to build an AR-10 maybe some time in the future but I'm a little burnt out on the platform as a whole
Brody Jenkins
>I can't see any possible process that would make it so goddamn expensive.
Do you have any clue how many millions it takes to buy a machine capable of making high grade lenses, or the cost of making the right kind of glass to the right level of purity? That is seriously high tech shit.
As for your car prices, around here that kind of money will get you a car that barely runs, but is about as reliable as a drunken teenager, and it will look, smell, and drive like shit.
Jeremiah Clark
I get it, but I don't.
Tyler Morgan
I have a lot of moderately high end optics and some low end optics as well. These days with the stuff turned out by Primary Arms and Vortex the average person can be perfectly fine with a sub-$500 optic. And if you go with something like the PA prism scopes I wouldn't even worry about durability, those things are invincible. You do get better quality with a more expensive optic though. While the glass in cheaper optics is definitely usable these days and has come a really long way it still isn't as crisp or as sharp as what you get in higher end optics, especially on the edges. If you get a really high magnification cheap scope you will be able to see how different color bands don't quite match up with each other, this can make target ID very difficult, and even being able to tell exactly where the target is very difficult. If you are at a gun show or something pick up a chinesium 30x scope to see what I am talking about in its most extreme case.
Turrets are another area where spending a lot of money is very worthwhile. It takes very precise machining to make sure each click is exactly .1moa and to make sure if you spin it around a few times then spin it back the same number of clicks it goes to exactly the same spot. With holdover reticles where you never have to worry about dialing this is less of an issue though so if you get a cheap scope I suggest something like the PA ACSS reticles. Then all you have to worry about is that the turrets stay put and the zero doesn't wander. They do a solid job of making sure their products are durable though.
Finally durability is an issue on cheaper optics as well, at least the ones that aren't a PA prism scope lol. Being able to be banged around against armored vehicles, dropped, etc without breaking or losing zero is highly important for a combat ready optic. For range use or hunting this is less critical.
Aaron White
>For range use or hunting this is less critical. Keep in mind that cheapo scopes can also have issues with the zero moving around due to recoil, and that's something that every shooter has to be concerned with, even if you're just hunting or shooting off a bench.
Thomas Perez
That is why I recomment Primary Arms or Vortex. They don't have this issue. People even put PA stuff on SCARs which are optics destroying rifles.
Joshua Mitchell
consider the psa gf3 ak. cheap ammo and supposedly the best us made ak right now.
Robert Nguyen
this is bullshit. it's like saying "scrap steel only costs a few dollars a ton, why are cars so expensive" there is fucking multi million dollar machines that spend their whole lives making these things. not to mention 50+ hours of skilled labor in each optic. people with decades of experience are hand lapping lenses for submicron flatness. adjusting threads are individually gauged to make sure that a click on the knob actually makes the correct adjustment. none of that shit happens in cheap optics, they just throw it together with garbage optical quality and no reliability.
