gentlemen of Jow Forums, i have come to assume that a lot of you have experience in military/air force/naval service.
i have come to inquire on your thoughts regarding the storyline of Star Wars: The last jedi where the topic of bad leadership and mutiny are central subjects. also a lot of bickering in the fanbase regarding chain of command.
to those of you who have watched this film, what did you think of it?
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fuck off back to /tv/
Just watched it last night actually. Poe Dameron did nothing wrong. Actually he did, he should have shot that bitch Holdo.
You mean a factional universe has perfectly tailored scenarios to (try to) ensure critical acclaim? Hold the presses.
Poe was CAG, which made him probably 3rd in command. Not telling him the plan was retarded.
Moreover, you can't command a bunch of volunteer rebels the same way as you command a professional army/navy
Dumb bitch has an evening gown and a fucking halo over her head.
It's a movie for children.
>Dumb bitch has an evening gown and a fucking halo over her head.
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
>gentlemen of Jow Forums, i have come to assume that a lot of you have experience in military/air force/naval service.
you would be wildly off base with that assumption
Just my edgy two cents but I would've executed her like said, there was no benefit to refusing to tell everyone the plan, it scared the shit out of anyone for zero benefit. And don't give me the "a spy could've told the empire", everyone on that ship thought they were gonna die, anyone loyal to the empire would've fucked off long ago.
Not at all. Every General should be dressed for cocktails and opera at all times!
youtube.com
Poe should have shot her desu.
It was bad leadership. See Vice-Admiral Sir Tryon. He was notorious for not telling those below him his intentions. That is, until an error in his judgement in one of his surprise orders resulted in a collision sinking HMS Victoria and killing 358 sailors in 1893.
It's deeper than that
Not only was there NO mention or fear of spies, Poe is not only a war hero but also one of the last officers left. They're facing certain death with multiple people trying to desert as seen with asian chick, and yet she still refuses to divulge there is a plan at all and instead ops to demean him
Then he successfuly stages a mutiny since everyone was on board with him instead. Yet the movie and Disney insists she was right despite painting the opposite picture in everyway
There was a complete lack of communication. She withheld her plan from the entirety of the crew under the guise of “not wanting to be a hero” (if I remember correctly, it’s been a while and the film was rough to watch) in a situation where actual present leadership was a necessity. Communication is arguably THE most important tool of war and she completely disregards it. If a modern day platoon leader led is men outside the wire with a plan only known to himself, he’d get fired soon at best and lose many lives, perhaps his own, at worst.
Difference being mercy's not in a military organization as of her default outfit. Her combat medic ziegler skin is much closer to being an actual military uniform.
The Last Jedi made me hate Leia. The pilot saved her ass and the entire fleet. He's a war hero, again, but the bitch slapped him. General Patton was relieved of command for slapping a malingerer. Leia should have stayed dead instead of pulling a Mary Poppins.
>a dumb ass dyed hair gender studies looking womyn fucks everything up
Is this a Freudian Slip moment?
>someone has to stay behind to pilot the ship
>In a universe that has perfected AI robot slaves
Makes total sense.
At least in the USN you would be hard pressed to find an officer who would launch a mutiny, even under terrible leadership like hers. What Poe did was definitely right, though. His only mistake was not immediately throwing Holdo and xer friends in the brig.
Holdo's speech about hope was the cringiest thing I've ever heard.
"Sometimes a commander may choose to share details of his plan, often he may not. In either case obedience must be instant and complete.
Such automatic response relies on trust between commander and those commanded and that trust can only be obtained through leadership."
Quote from an actual competent leader in Star Wars.
You call that a reference?
Stop trying to be funny, you talentless cunt.
>something something even A FUCKING SCENE of imperial remnants retaking the galaxy
>true no hope scenario because of a "real" reason like damaged hyperdrive forcing them to relativistic speed
>lea does in fact die in space
>no plan purple haired cunt gets executed in mutiny
or doesn't exist, but since she does she should take a bullet to the head
>Get hyperdrive almost working through chewing gum and duct tape, only one jump possible, which means you're still fucked because they'll just follow you
>resistance gets on smaller ships and transports
>Po Damron aloha ackbaring the ship with a .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 second hyper jump backwards causing his capital ship sized projectile to crash/ram the singular bad guy ship chasing them, destroying both.
>resistance putters on to new resistance base like in star wars 2/8 but also still fucked because the galaxy is now imperial controlled despite their herculean efforts blowing up that one big but not retardedly sized ship.
I personally look at this "Resistance" as noncombatant group, much similar to South American guerilla. Because it's never said that they represent some part of regular army, or they have government support. Just a bunch of freaks who can't stop killing stormtroopers, despite of the fact that war is over.
From such point of view I'm not surprised that they fight alone and such crappy commandment is their constant situation.
She’s a fucking dumbass and the meteor crater sized hole they made is truly a sight to see. Also I really want to know why they call themselves “The Resistance” when they already reformed the Republic and kicked the Imperials/First Order to the outer fringes of the galaxy, just doesn’t make any sense. But I suppose literally nothing of the new trilogy makes any sense.
t. Navy dental guy
>ULTRAMEGADEATHSTAR
What were they even thinking
Did you just assume my exeriance?
>Be Didney
>Buy massive franchise that includes tons of additional material to draw inspiration from
>The EU has too much 1-upsmanship of bigger and bigger ships, this is ridiculous and is no longer canon!
>Let's make our own even less-inspired bigger and bigger ships to fuel the nu space opera!
I really don't get what they had to gain by axing the expanded universe when they were just going to shit the lore up anyway.
>also a lot of bickering in the fanbase regarding chain of command.
???? what? Whats the argument?
Holdo can be considered a traitor, 100% of rebel casualties in the movie can be attributed to her choices alone, what it all so much makes it worse is that everything literally was going according to her plan.
Her plan literally was 'get everyone murdered'.
There is literally no other possible outcome for her actions.
>Oh! But she sacrificed her own life to attack the imperial fleet! Explain that one!!
This does not give any purpose to letting the imperials destroy literally every other ship in the flotilla first - The ramming attacks should've been the initial go-to action with no opportunity given to enemy to cause any casualties at all.
This has been discussed to death just watch whatever YouTube video from a year ago.
>just watch whatever YouTube video from a year ago.
They all discuss about why Holdo didn't clue in others to "the plan" when instead they should be discussing Holdo's complete lack of any plan what so ever.
>Throughout the course of the chase sequence when the resistance is fleeing from the First Order, several ships run out of fuel, forcing evacuation prior to their destruction.
>The First Order officers never acknowledge the existence of those transports, and their overconfident attitude implies they believed they destroyed the ship and everyone on board (at least that's how I felt it was implied).
>Holdo was already using her cloaking plan here. She knew the First Order wouldn't be searching for that type of ship - as evidenced when Leia explains the full plan at the end. Ultimately, she was right - the First Order never knew about those ships, which explains why someone had to stay back and pilot each ship that was shot down. This is the same thing Holdo was planning to do with the main cruiser.
Letting the enemy destroy _all_your_ships_ is not a a fucking plan. At very least its dereliction of duty, or worse.
>Women think this is good leadership
Right after the force awakens came out and everyone loved poe he came out as a progun conservative. As soon as he did I knew they would try to assasinate his charecter in the next movie. Sure enough they tried to play the "destructive male ego" vs. "I'm with her" narrative.
Oi, somebody got triggered.
Even contemplating that makes me want to shoot my brains out
If only it was. One of the reasons it's so fucking bad is because they filmed it to be "adult"
I'm kinda pissed that they did away with the whole buddy cop and or gaybois dynamic that Poe and Finn had; and shoehorned in their respective female romantic interests. I might not have gone into those movies wanting or expecting a gay romance but it would have been a better continuation of the narrative than the shit we got.
That certainly would’ve been better than the squat, angry little plumber who turned out to be a super ninja genius love interest.
>for me, it's "The Caine Mutiny."
Not to mention the very act of the Radice suicidebombing itself in hyperdrive to destroy the Imperial fleet is kinda bullshit since nowhere is it even mentioned in any other Star Wars movie as bejng possible. Hyperspace travel doesn’t work like that in Star Wars and never has or the Rebel forces in the OG trilogy could have just commandeered a ship with hyperspace travel capacities and did the same to the Death Stars weak spot
literally all she had to do was tell everyone the plan, rather then drift aimlessly through space while they were running out of fuel
IIRC there wasnt even a mention of spies, and even if there was they were trapped on the ship with them. Any escape pods or ships falling behind were shot by the empire. She could have told everyone the plan, and spend her last hours reminiscing as a hero and telling everyone what the plan was moving forward before facing her death like a badass. It would have made a better movie, but we also had finn and rose fucking around trying to free animals at some intergalactic las vegas, so theres that
Both were in the wrong. Holdo had a distant, authoritarian style of command that was completely unhelpful for the situation. Poe acted petty and entitled despite him commanding a fighter wing, not fleet operations, and having been demoted a couple hours prior.
The main problem with the conflict is that Holdo is presented to the audience as the typical "stuffed shirt" sort of officer which already primes us to dislike and disagree with her. The audience already knows and likes Poe, further compounded by the film keeping the entire focus on Poe rather than giving Holdo any real focus or development and not providing a satisfactory example of Holdo objectively making the right call over Poe. Furthermore, Poe's a goddamn idiot in the film, running an unsanctioned op, that apparently took the fleet's only hyperspace capable transport, on minimal intelligence comprised of the janitor and a guy he met 3 days ago, to meet a guy whose identity is unknown to them to sneak onboard the FO flagship to shutdown a theoretical tracking device so they could escape. A plan that would only work if he were in command of the ship, which meant he was planning a mutiny since the moment Holdo took command. He spent the entire film withholding vital information from his commanding officer because he didn't like her.
tl;dr: Both were wrong, but Poe was more wrong.
FTL travel does work that way in SW. You have to approach the speed of light before you're able to switch over to hyperspace. The ramming scene is far less setting breaking than people like to complain about. For starters, and it's really hard to tell due to the lack of things to compare it to, the Raddus is the size of a Star Destroyer, and two, gravity well projectors were made canon. The main headscratcher is that the Supremacy's support fleet was behind and not in front of it.
Ahh. Okay I can forgive that aspect of TLJ. Doesn’t mean the rest of it makes any fucking sense though and it certainly doesn’t make it not mediocre film and a Star wars one at that, but at least that makes sense now
It's a "meh" film and beyond that I could not give a shit. Just because it says "Star Wars" on the poster doesn't mean it has to take up a disproportionate amount of your brain power.
If this film was called "Space Warriors" no one would care.
When the empire fell, it didn't fall all together. A good amount of it became the first order. The republic made peace with the first order then covertly sponsored resistance groups
Or Disney just wanted rebels v empire again
It was the second thing.
This. Han even says to luke in the first movie if they hit a piece of space dust it will blow them into a million pieces across the galaxy. Problem is, they have droids that could a piloted the ship Holdo did not have to do it herself. Also, there is little reason for the FO's ships to have been travelling so close together that the ramming tactic would have hit more than one of them.
Accurate portrayal of US ships command culture
>You have to approach the speed of light before you're able to switch over to hyperspace.
If it works like this then theres absolutely no need to require such a large vessel to be used in a ramming; literally a convert an X-wing to large torpedo and it can put the Death Start out of commission with single impact.
1) The chain of command can only work if the plan of action is understood at all levels, even if certain information must be withheld for operational security. Failing to inform ranking officers in command of squadrons is a massive break in CoC. It endangers the mission and the lives of warfighters.
2) In support of point one, a failure to operate within the chain of command - especially in a top down fashion - is a dereliction of duty and grounds for courts martial. Holdo deliberately endangered those under her command and the entire war effort.
3) If the political backing of a military (Leia) ignores and supports a high ranking officer's dereliction of duty, it is treason. Complacency in unnecessary loss of lives is essentially support of an enemy war effort.
4) It is the duty of any subordinate officer to challenge and remand a superior officer in the event that they are found in dereliction of duty - especially if such dereliction results in loss of life and the failure of a mission.
Poe was right. Holdo and Leia betrayed the Resistance. He failed in his duty to correct the issue. Anyone who argues against this is a fool capable of mental gymnastics on a multi-dimensional scale.
They weren't resisting anything, that is until the FO FUCKING OBLITERATES CORUSCANT. It pisses me off to no end how they just gloss over this as just, "Oh gee, now we has a reason to fight! Hurrdurr!" The FO, in one attack, just destabilized the entire galaxy, decapitated the heads of billions of different states and governments, pretty much deleted untold amounts of information, severed galaxy-wide communications, sent several civilzations back into the stone age, and effectively created a galactic world war between fucking everyone in the Star Wars universe. This gaping, Mariana Trench of a plothole, is fucking egregious. And all the movie seems to care about is, "muh rebels".
Was that actually coruscant tho?
Pretty sure, they took out everything in the Coruscant's planetary system as well.
That wasn’t Coruscant, that was some star system the New Republic moved its capital to in a rotation system, kind of like how every so often there are new members of the UN Security Council rotated around. It’s still pretty fucking stupid how quickly it got roflstomped but that wasn’t anywhere close to Coruscant. But even then they still aren’t actively resisiting anything, they’re the dominant force in the galaxy, the First Order would be the rebels this time. In fact it is pretty ridiculous that some splinter group of the Empire managed to convert an entire goddamn planet into some sort of turbo Death Star and no one was any the wiser, even for Star Wars. This shit is so fucking stupid it hurts.
Way to fix the whole movie
>being chased by one big but not retard sized ship
>rebel ship is the high command of the resistance and escort, not entire resistance
because that's especially retarded in the disneyverse
>seriously got their shit wrecked in the opening attack that kills leah
>lower key constant harassing fighter combat the whole movie until the big end game gambit
>intercut galactic space battles and ground combat footage of nameless imperial remnants retaking the galaxy after the first order 9/11'd the galactic government.
this could and should have replaced the entire B plot of space tyrone and shortround
>if holdo has to exist, make her what she is. an incompetent bureaucrat whose plan will get everyone killed
>Po takes total command after mutiny and something something real plan to get to some republic military installation in the next system or something
>if hyperdrive fuckery is necessary as an asspull, make it crash the ship at normal relativistic speed into the one ship chasing them, causing the bad goys to get blown up
>Luke or Rey comes back with the millenium falcon and/or Xwing and blows something up han solo style to tie the two movie plots together even remotely
>disney movie 2 ends with a star wars 5 style window shot after seriously getting thrown on the ropes
>setup for triumphant from behind victory in movie 3
Jesus she ages like fine wine. I would slam that shit like a screen door in a hurricane
They killed Akbar and Leia, then introduced a new character to run shit. They had one chance at a first impression. They wasted it having her just be a passive-aggressive cunt. Literally anything would have been better.
"You can't know that, Poe, it's classified."
"I would appreciate your input, Poe, but the command decision must be kept in confidence under the circumstances."
"Poe, after that last stunt you're in the brig."
Literally anything. Keep secrets, sure, it's the military, even if it's an irregular one. Consult the staff, great, worked for star trek. Punish and demote Poe, why not, he just disobeyed orders in battle. Tell everyone you're about to surrender, awesome, that moves the plot and brings all the major characters to one place, I'm interested even though it's shit-stupid.
Instead they try to show us a competent, powerful woman, by showing us that she makes passive-aggressive insults and doesn't really do anything about anything. Then she gets butthurt no one in- or out-of-universe likes her. She didn't do anything even vaguely resembling what a commander should do, and since that immediately followed up on the audience being told that she was supposed to have a stellar in-universe reputation, the disconnect was jarring and broke suspension of disbelief.
To be fair, that's probably how Kathleen Kennedy ran the whole project in real life.
>what did you think of it
I was shocked to learn that that woman was the cutie from Jurassic Park. Fuck, time is a real bitch.
>FTL travel does work that way in SW. You have to approach the speed of light before you're able to switch over to hyperspace.
The issue most people have with that is the method by which the acceleration occurs. The regular engines aren't used in that acceleration or the rebel fleet in ROTJ would have just blasted to relativistic speeds out of the trap set by the emperor.
>The main headscratcher is that the Supremacy's support fleet was behind and not in front of it.
The actual main headscratcher is why the fuck didn't the flagship flotilla have at least one fucking interdictor cruiser that could have prevented the ENTIRE resistance fleet leaving the system? That would have made infinitely more sense than the retarded hyperfuel bullshit that they based the chase scene on.
Don’t forget Finn nearly sacrificed himself to buy the rebels more time if wasn’t for that fucking trash character of rose saying killing doesn’t win wars
A hard earned (you)
Shit. Not only did that garbage Rose character do that. She nearly killed the entire rebellion by crashing into Finn’s X-wing as he was driving himself into the Imperial laserthing in order to sacrifice himself for rhe cause of the Resistance. So that’s teice that she’s done that, and then the bitch had the gall to say some fay depity about how we don’t kill what we hate, but save what we love (never mind Finn was actually doing both at the same time). Jesus, what a shotty character and a shitty movie
I was about to type that if Ma-Rey Sue didn’t save their asses, the Resistance literally blame a fat Asian roastie and a purple-haired gender studies major general for their demise
>She nearly killed the entire rebellion by crashing into Finn’s X-wing
That wasn't an X-wing, it couldn't even get off the ground under its own power.
Also that crash should've killed them both, what the hell was she thinking?
On a rewatch, the film literally has no other alternatives to the Resistance dying other than Luke and Rey. Poe's plan had failed, Holdo's plan had failed, and, assuming Finn's plan to ram into a weapon to disable it by traveling up the fortress cracking laser beam actually worked, it would have best only bought them a couple of hours which would have been spent under full assault by a significantly larger force. The film is literally "the Resistance fails hard until Rey bails them out."
Even Luke did nothing. He didn't do anything. He stalled a whole of what? 5 minutes. What a waste of an amazing character. He showed up solely to get Kylo to strike him down in anger which only benefits himself. How selfish, what an incredibly vane way for such a great character and rolemodel to die.
>Be on warship not a luxury cruiser
>Heavy space combat
>Could experience hull breach and pressure loss at any second
>your Admiral is wearing a prom dress high heels and has her hair done up now take her seriously any doubts prove you hate women
>everyone on that ship thought they were gonna die
correctly, I might add. only like 12 people survived and at least four of them weren't on the ship most of the movie.
>it was actually some entirely new place you have even less reason to give a shit about
why
Who's that MILF?
Holdo's plan made no sense to me, and I'mnot even talking about the chain of command issues. As I understand it, her plan was, in it's entirety "get off the one big ship in many smaller ships". These ships are described as "cloaked", but based on the footage we see, the smaller ships remain visible to the eye, glowing engine exhaust and all, similar to how modern stealth aircraft don't appear on radar, but aren't physically invisible. So this isn't a star trek cloak where a ship could be breathing down your neck and you'd have no idea.
So why couldn't the first order guys have just looked out a window and seen these ships escaping, and then track them visually? Let's give the writers the benefit of the doubt, and assume that in that armada of impossibly advanced star destroyers, no one is using a thermal camera or zoom lense to track the rebel fleet, even though it make sense for the FO to have set up some kind of perimeter to catch escaping ships. Why couldn't my aging dad, armed with his trusty birdwatching binoculars, see the ships leaving the rebel ship?
Even if they can't see them, doesn't it make sense for the rebels to try and flee to the planet in the system with the heavy fortifications on the surface? I get that Holdo is in as desparate a situation as possible, and any plan from anyone in that situation is going to be more of a hail mary than anything else, but everyone passing it off as tactical genius was ignoring what was literally right before their eyes.
Yep, and the way we KNOW the gun emplacements work on star destroyers is that there were definitely people in the FO visually looking at the resistance ships.
>each star destroyer has like 1000 tie fighters
>there's like 30 star destroyers
>and one super giant extra thicc white supremacy star destroyer which probably has like a billion tie fighters
>send 3
>they successfully blow up the bridge and hangar of the ship
>they go back home
>never send any more.
the whole of the new trilogy is fucked now because they think they can wrap it all up with one more movie.
Ya I was triggered by your hack ass """"joke"""".
Sorry it wasn't the (you) you were looking for
>i-I wasn't triggered!!!
Redd*t is that way kiddo.
The L O R E says that it is so planets can get more representation in the new government or some shit. Of course how would anyone know that if they barely even fleshed anything out in the movies.
As far as I can tell he is technically correct
The best kind of correct
He should have led a coup. When your commanders are elderly cat lady types, it's time to put a bullet in their heads. When Leia was in pic related shape, she would be worthy of adding to your personal harem. Now, she's just bantha fodder.
>The L O R E says
Wait, the new movies had lore and plot??
Fooled me big time then!
Even worse, the ship they're being chased by is the Supremacy, the personal dreadnaught of Supreme Leader Snoke, a known Force user, along with his Sith-wannabe apprentice Kylo Ren, a Force user taught by Luke Skywalker.
From what information she had and what resources she knew she could utilize, her plan would have failed even if Poe, Finn and Rose didn't do anything.
You fags know what I just realized?
The movie makes it seem like the First Order new about the ships due to Guillermo Del Torro's character squealing on them. But how would he even know about it?
Finn and Rose didn't know about the plan with the transports. Poe certainly didn't know about it and let them all know by accident. which either means that Del Toro's guy was Psychic, the ships weren't actually cloaked like Holdo though, Snoak could force perceive the plan, or Rian Johnson is just a hack writer.
>Rian Johnson is just a hack writer.
Its sad really
>the plan with the transports.
Launching lifepods can hardly be called a plan, it's almost the same as surrendering
Yeah totally not a samefag....
Ok genius, explain the reference and show me how dumb I am.
Protip: you can't cuz u dumb
This a shitty explanation, yes light speed will in real life fuck shit up as shown in the movie and they do talk about hyperspace being dangerous, but if this ramming technique was viable at all then hqhy didn't anyone kamikaze any other ship for the last 7 fucking movies! No one thought of this. And there is only 1 logicaæ explanation for it, that it isn't possible to do it. But Disney had to surprise everyone and event something retarded.
If it was a viable tactic any problem could be solved with hyperspace ramming.. fuck that planet, hyperspace droid ship. Fuck that ship, hyperspace droid ship. Fuck anything big, hyperspace droid ship.
Tactically I don't think any of the rebels knew what they were doing:
>Opening attack
>Slow moving bombers flying unescorted against captial ships with heavy AAA
>Rebels get their shit pushed in
>Blames CAG because muh flybois despite shitty planning from senior leadership
Rest of the movie
>Allow the empire to outflank you
>Run away in a straight line
>No evasive manevours, no covering fire, no fighter harresment
>Not telling your CAG what your plan is, and being surprised when he doesnt just blindly go along with it
>But Disney had to surprise everyone and event something retarded.
"Here’s what I think I know. J.J. wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII & IX," Ridley said. "Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote TLJ entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy, but apart from that, every director writes and realizes his film in his own way."
JJ had his shit together and the new guy came and fucked it up.
Disney axed the new guy and JJ has to hit the next one out of the park, else Disney pulls the plug on the films and goes back to cartoons.
>JJ had his shit together
I stopped reading right there.
Well relatively speaking he probably at least had some sort of continuous narrative connecting them all. Which is certainly more "shit together" than the glorified fan fiction compilation we got.
About the only answer that would make sense is if the actual plan was to evacuate everyone and once the FO turned their attention to the transports ram the Supremacy with the Raddus.
I think that was a leftover from TFA's characterization of the FO, where aside from Star Killer they seem to have significantly less power available and can't use the Empire's "just throw more bodies at the problem" approach. But even then, the TIEs would only have to deal with the AA guns of the already massively undergunned Resistance ships.
You want a fanwank answer? Hyperspace ramming is a perfectly viable but situational tactic. Shielding on starships means that the amount of mass needed for it to work increases massively and any hyperspace ramming vessel is going to need sufficient shielding and sensors to protect itself from environmental hazards and enemy fire. Interdictor fields require any hyperspace rams have enough structural integrity to prevent it from ripping itself apart or destroying its engines and overlapping artificial gravity wells will more or less rip a ram to pieces. It's long, straight-line approach makes it highly vulnerable to enemy attack and they need a clear avenue of approach against a static enough target to successfully work. Furthermore, successful hyperspace rams fill the surrounding area with high speed debris which make it a poor option when you have forces in the vicinity of the target or are in orbit.
tl;dr: it's not hard to come up with reasons why hypersace ramming isn't the end-all, be-all tactic.
Honestly, you're better off complaining about the complete inconsistency of shields in SW. Even just sticking to issues within a single film, the hyperspace tracker is far more setting breaking.
I thought she was a FO spy/infiltrator with a last minute change of plans. Lets say she decided not to hyperspace ram. The Resistance'd be fucked as she relaxes on a shielded ship.
>It's only slightly less retarded in context than the completely retarded "hyperspace tracker" that spurred the entire B plot where tyrone and short round were able to easily flee the first order, fuck around for a bit and free some space horsedogs, sneak onto snokes super ship through fuck you don't ask questions, fail to disable the tracker which they told no one they were trying to disable, don't get summarily executed because reasons, then find a working ship after purple bitch aloha snackbar'd into the supremacy and shit blew up all around them.
if they had dogpiled into the ship tyrone took and ran the fuck away, more people from the (((resistance))) would be alive than at the end of the movie.
working in the framework of suck they've presented, to salvage the plot at all:
>broken hyperdrive after the first attack that kills Lea
or
>kylo wants to capture his mom, not knowing he already killed her because he's shit at the force, putting them in a mexican standoff where they can't hand over lea because she's dead and can't tell him she's dead because they'll get blown out of the sky
or
>first order chasing them and they need to get away before more ships show up
or
>real time hourish ship on ship fight intercut with weeks of rey's force training, where the resistance gets their shit wrecked and they're forced to retreat back to a base they have to flee hoth style from first order ground troops
or
>literally fucking anything besides what they did
>to those of you who have watched this film, what did you think of it?
Holdo is a legit retard and makes incredibly poor decisions which is funny since the movie literally tells us she is supposed to be a genius commander. They told us she was smart but showed us she was an idiot. And the entire First Order are a complete joke since Snoke died. They would either be run by a ginger who gets beaten by his crybaby daddy Kylo who is broken beyond belief.
Snoke was the 1 character in the film I was interested in and they just dropped his ass for this shit tier plot with kylo and rey.
It's just a bad movie with dumb writing and worse characters. Star wars has long been dead but this just confirms it.
>Shielding on starships means that the amount of mass needed for it to work increases massively
No. Star Wars ship shields can be defeated by ship mounted firepower, which is a tiny, miniscule fraction of the amount something moving near lightspeed has. (even if they weren't moving at actual light speed, no problem! Just load the ship full of the same bombs carried by image attached and target is kill 99,8/100 times)
>and any hyperspace ramming vessel is going to need sufficient shielding and sensors to protect itself from environmental hazards and enemy fire.
Au contraire mon capitan! The ramming maneuver _completely_ _bypasses_ any point-defense system or escort screen and delivers the payload to contact with enemy ship hull practically instantly.
>Interdictor fields
Not movie canon.
>require any hyperspace rams have enough structural integrity to prevent it from ripping itself apart or destroying its engines and overlapping artificial gravity wells will more or less rip a ram to pieces.
You don't have to care about your damn engines when the the ship is going to get atomized within milliseconds - Just get the payload to contact with enemy hull.
>It's long, straight-line approach makes it highly vulnerable to enemy attack and they need a clear avenue of approach against a static enough target to successfully work.
Au contraire mon capitan! The ramming maneuver _completely_ _bypasses_ any point-defense system or escort screen and delivers the payload to contact with enemy ship hull practically instantly.
2/2
>Furthermore, successful hyperspace rams fill the surrounding area with high speed debris which make it a poor option when you have forces in the vicinity of the target or are in orbit.
I don't think you have to care about orbits, unless theres a literal black hole behind the target, the velocity of the ship turned to plasma will far exceed escape velocity of the local system.
>tl;dr: it's not hard to come up with reasons why hypersace ramming isn't the end-all, be-all tactic.
Literally convert X-wings to heavy torpedoes and the imperials lose every single capital ship they commit in every single engagement.
>Honestly, you're better off complaining about the complete inconsistency of shields in SW. Even just sticking to issues within a single film,
The ramming method leaves a gaping hole in Star Wars, no way around it.
>the hyperspace tracker is far more setting breaking.
Star Wars _does_ have FTL communications.