What went wrong?

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>40291841

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Garbage engine like most British land vehicles.

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Nothing really. When it was introduced in 1998 it was one of the best tanks in the world.

It's the oldest version of a western MBT in service at 21 years old so of course it's showing it's age. the somewhat overdue mid life upgrade will be a big step forward, and afterwards people will pick a different tank and ask 'What went wrong'

>mid life upgrade
>same engine
>same gun
Lol what went wrong?

Chosen over the better alternative of buying the Abrams/Leopard

There's nothing wrong with the engine and the mid life update has been expanded to include a new turret and gun.

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Are there any Bong tankers on Jow Forums? I know there was merkgunner and the leclerc crewman but seems to be a lack of Leopard and Chally crewmen.

absolutely sick pics my guy

Too heavily armoured for its engine with mediocre gun

Basically the British tank since ww2

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>Basically the British tank since ww2

Centurion has arguably been the most successful tank of the modern era. Hugely exported and involved in many wars, regularly being the best tank on the battlefield.

We really need /thg/ to be a thing again.

Don't know why they'd bother. Jow Forums has turned Jow Forums into a cespit. it's not worth their time to put any effort into a the board.

I actually thought about starting it up again and had started writing something up on the Olifant, but I don't think there'd be enough interest.

/thg/ was peak Jow Forums. I used to actually look forward to reading through it on the weekends. Rip /thg/guy

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Where are the pics and proofs? Not a single picture of that incident exists

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>DR47AA
Translated
>Drataa
No cool 1337 speak

Just stop already. Wet get it, you're an Anglophile, but no need to be delusional.

It's not delusional at all.

It was the best tank of the Korean war, it was the best tank in the indo-pakistani war, it was the best tank of the yom kippur war, at the valley of tears centurions held against 3 to one odds.

It was the first real MBT and was exported to many nations, and continuously upgraded, it's still in use in one form or another.

And if you dont agree with me you can listen to David Fletcher talking about it as he's one of the most knowledgeable tank experts in the world with many - possibly more than 100 - books published.

youtube.com/watch?v=FOmEOIt-nvY

The Leo 2 is 40 years old, introduced in the 70s.

More like 30 and it has had major updates since. I said oldest version not oldest tank.

As long as the Challenger 2 continues to use the same gun it will not be dethroned.

I thought the plan was to change to a smoothbore 120mm? What actually are the downsides of a rifled barrel?

see

You can't be dethroned if you never had the crown

>rifled gun
>two piece ammo
>no armored section in the turret seperating the crew from the ammo
>weak armor on the lower front of the hull

We still don't know if BAE or Rheinmetall won.

[citation needed]

This was while he was attending an MoD event and talking to MoD staff.

There won't be a press release until the competition reaches the next stage.

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This. Every time it gets brought up no one can provide any proof

>What actually are the downsides of a rifled barrel?
The spin fucks up HEAT as the centrifugal force pulls apart the copper jet. Probably doens't play nice with APFSDS either, fins and rotation might not agree with one another.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2905817.stm

Where are the pics?

Drummond is not a source and that isn't the Challenger 2 mid life upgrade program.

-shorter barrel life
-higher manufacturing cost
-higher mechanical deficiency
-each barrel needs a unique FCS tailoring
-jump rope and yaw effects

>Drummond the shill constantly advocates for 8x8s
>"Consultant" for KMW and Patria

why do you expect there to be pics?

He was speaking directly to the Mod, deal with it.

Oh and if you think LEP - 'Life Extension Program' - is not a mid life upgrade then you should just stop posting.

>He was speaking directly to the Mod

He would like you to think that since it improves his ability to earn money as an influencer/shill, I mean consultant.

That tank in the Berlin camo is not part of the Challenger 2 upgrade program, deal with it.

Why wouldn't there be pics? To claim that it survived 70rpg hits there should be some valid evidence not just lol it happened believe us. It happened in the 21st century. There's no excuse why there isn't a single pic of that tank

It was an invite only MoD event.

That specific challenger 2 isn't, that's the tank the event was about a new urban kit. Maybe you should have articulated yourself better in your first post?

Because the army are never going to post photos of damaged armour packs if they show the interior.

If one RPG doesn't go through, 70 wont go through unless they are hitting the exact same spot.

>With a mediocre gun
The British L7 was the premier NATO tank gun until the advent of the German 120mm and then the L7 was equal to the 120mm until a decent sabot round was developed.

The L7 is the 105mm.

L11A6 then L11A7 are the 120mm guns used in Chieftain and Challenger 1, the L30 is the gun in Challenger 2

The Army wants a new Tank and once the MOD admits the state of the Challenger 2 fleet the treasury will probably agree.

When half of the tanks on your order of battle are literally a shell due to the need for spares a new vehicle becomes more economical quickly.

What're they going to buy? Leclerc and Abrams are the only "used" options left, EMBT and Leopards would be very expensive new built and it doesn't make sense to invest in that 5-10 years before the next gen tanks start rolling out.

>The Army wants a new Tank

All the forces want a new everything. But the Army will have to make do with the upgraded CR2 until a new NATO standard tank gun comes round in the 2020's/30's.

>When half of the tanks on your order of battle are literally a shell due to the need for spares a new vehicle becomes more economical quickly.

I don't know where you got that information because it's false. Many of the CR2's are in storage but that's because the armoured regiments have been downsized since the initial order not because they have been turned into a 'shell' not that such a thing would be possible.

>It was an invite only MoD event.

The threshold for an invite is being media, Drummond was one of many people there.

Your point being?

Would you care to name some of the others that attended?

It's also worth noting that Drummond simply makes shit up for attention, in 2017 and 2018 he falsely claimed that the M1A3 would be at AUSA, never issuing a retraction after the fact.

I am aware of this. But the proposition made by that there is a systemic problem with post WWII British tanks of being under powered and under-gunned. The L7 disproves the assertion that British tanks were historically under-gunned. The L11 variants performance in the Gulf War also shows that it was a sufficient gun. As for the QF 20lber I cannot find good sources on its performance as compared to the contemporary American 90mm or the Russian 100mm.

Drummond isn't pivy to special information but would like you to think he is.

I recall him also claiming the Abrams was going to get a new turret as well.

other than I'm not a fan of the driver's hatch channel, the tank is pretty much solid

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it's not special information, everyone else was covering the urban kit and he presumably asked about how LEP was going.

I love that you're desperate for this not to be true.

CR2 getting a new tank and gun is an obvious choice to life extension. and considering defence funding is going up, it's got to be spent somewhere.

>CR2 getting a new tank
We can only hope, it's time the British Army got rid of that POS

I meant turret.

Why would replacing the turret be obvious? Abrams is the only real choice for a turret replacement and at that point you might as well just buy used M1A2s.

It will be great if the Challenger 2 gets a new gun, it needs one badly. But that isn't the issue, the issue is you white knighting a known shill.

Certainly not aesthetics

>Why would replacing the turret be obvious?

Because the existing turret isn't built for single piece ammunition.

> Abrams is the only real choice for a turret replacement and at that point you might as well just buy used M1A2s.

It's not the only choice, Leopard two is more likely as Rheinmetall is working on it. Also used M1A2's are vastly more expensive than just a turret and gun.

You're clearly upset about something so we'll just let you simmer away in the corner.

>Because the existing turret isn't built for single piece ammunition.
I renember hearing that it could only hold 7 rounds in that config.
>It's not the only choice, Leopard two is more likely as Rheinmetall is working on it
Leopard 2 only holds 15 rounds in the turret-most of it is in the front hull. As there is no space there, you'd have to redesign the Challenger's front hull to hold an ammo rack.

>I'm not angry, you are!

neat

>the MOD admits the state of the Challenger 2 fleet the treasury will probably agree.
lol
The only thing the treasury could even come close to caring about is Trident/CASD.

>Leopard 2 only holds 15 rounds in the turret-most of it is in the front hull. As there is no space there, you'd have to redesign the Challenger's front hull to hold an ammo rack.

Why would you need to make a front hull round container? You just place rounds in the space previously taken by charge bins. Leo turret is more likely as it already fits the L55, it's unlikely the Uk would go for the shorter L44 that Abrams uses.

you've had information presented to you and you've had nothing but ad hominem. i'll let you work out how fussed i am about what you have to say.

Business idea: Bin CH2, buy CV90 120mm

So six rounds, based on the earlier attempts at upgunning.

>You just place rounds in the space previously taken by charge bins
That's incredibly unsafe for one, and for another you couldn't fit that many rounds in.

You have had it explained to you in simple terms who Drummond is and why he isn't a good source. Your response was to attack his critics while projecting your own behavior onto them.

>You have had it explained to you in simple terms who Drummond is and why he isn't a good source.

he's attended an event and talked to those involved. that's better information than literally anything you have the the contrary.

Slip rings exist.

Are the Leopards 2A7 for Hungary brand new build, or just an upgrade to old hull?

New builds from Greece, final assembly done in Germany.

Why not a Leclerc turret? Join the autoloading club like all the cool kids

You keep trying to change the subject to whether the Challenger 2 is getting a new gun.

If it wasn't then why has the LEP deadline passed with no announcement? The two bidders are clearly reworking with the new information.

When in doubt double down?

Drummond makes shit up all the time, so without a second source to confirm him claiming something is pretty meaningless.

Leolpards are build in Greece?