WHICH DO I BUY?!?!

11.5 Inch Pistol or 16 inch rifle???

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also should I just get this over the raptor to save money

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>11.5"
The ideal length for a PDW role out of an AR-15 derivative, but you would have to run soft/hollow point ammunition for it to work out to 100 yards

Pistol lower is fucktarded. Get a regular receiver extension and an SBA3.
If you're shooting at people, why aren't you using good loads in the first place?

I've broken two of those and an ambi no-name before getting a gunfighter. Better charging handles are worth the price homie.

Just buy a nice brace and two different uppers.

Can you elaborate I am new to guns. Is the extension basically the buffer tube? What is the difference between the two lowers on there?

Raptors are worth it my dude. Once you go radian, you never go back.

Alright, I will stick with raptor then. Ty.

The one on top has a receiver extension that isn't milled for a stock to lock into it. Just buy the one that's $200 and replace the stock with an SBA3 brace. DON'T PUT THE UPPER ON IT UNTIL YOU'VE INSTALLED THE BRACE.

Lol what if I put the upper on with the stock still there. GG cops at my doorstep within a second. Wait so with the pistol lower would the KAK even stay on or...?

Yeah, but the SBA3 comes with its own milspec tube, so you just take off the gay pistol tube and install the whole SBA3 assembly as a unit.
Why would you pay $35 more for yet another basic-bitch M4 stock that's just gonna sit in your parts drawer forever?

What, a Shockwave? Yea, it'd designed to tension onto the smooth pistol extension. But fuck that piece of shit, you don't want it.

OP is new to guns so I'm not going to assume he's comfortable exchanging a receiver extension. If he is, though, by all means do that.

Psa currently has a sb3 with lower build kit for $120

Buy from PSA and you can have both.

SBA3 is so last year.
Get the pistol lower, order an SBA4, and shoot it with no brace until the SBA4 arrives.

The fuck is better about the SBA4? Looks worse.

Yeah, fair enough. I tend to feel like assembling a lower from parts is nothing even if you've never done it before, but then I grew up working on cars and shit, and I don't know that OP has that kind of experience.

I live in Illinois they don't wanna touch my gay state.
I wouldnt be opposed to it, but at the ssme time looks like its 170... I am not really interested in spending all that cash on anything besides the really important parts such as a barrel or bcg. Maybe I should just grab the rifle then? I think it is better all around for me.

I don't which is pathetic seeing as my dad has been working with his hands since forever and I wasn't interested like a fool. But I watched videos I could do it, I mean its not like it requires extensive technical knowledge.

Mainly the QD point is forward where the sling can actually swivel. With the SBA3, most QD swivels hit the brace when they turn.

Other than that... it's newer and it looks more like a real stock? (Yes, I know those don't matter.)

It doesn't. If you do your research, you can do it without issue.

I should say, where I assume it can swivel. I haven't laid hands on an SBA4 yet to check.

>Mainly the QD point is forward where the sling can actually swivel.
Who wants a sling to swivel uncontrolled? Not to mention that's a worse sport for a QD point on a rifle.

Nigger order all the time from PSA in cook county. Just don't get mags.

I think that velocity will be a problem with the pistol build and make my longer range shots less lethal in a combat situation, that and accuracy, in part due to the iron sights being closer together.

How? "PSA will not ship ANY AR or AK Parts or Firearms (Including Receivers) to residents of Connecticut, Chicago, Illinois, Cook County, Illinois, or Deerfield, Illinois."

Btw did cook county put a restriction on high capacity mags, whatever that means? I called the sherrif and the state police and I can get no answers.

I do want it to rotate freely between two positions where the sling comes off at 12 o'clock (up) and at 9 o'clock (back). The SBA3 won't let that happen, because it binds on the brace anywhere from 11 to 1 o'clock. It's a little thing, but it bugs me.

>worse sport
Yeah, I really want it just 1/4" forward from the SBA3 position so it has room to swivel, but they don't make one like that. I'll take one that's a couple inches too far forward over one that gets stuck.

So g-guys.. Which do I buy? No response indicated 16 inch.

What purpose will the rifle have? General range use? Home defense?

Home defense and SHTF. I will of course enjoy practicing at the range and perhaps it will become a hobby of mine.

The SHTF is why I kinda hesitate on the shorter barrel and value velocity and lethality at longer distance.

Of the two uses, HD is one you actually might use it for. Go with the shorter barrel, much more maneuverable indoors and will be terminally effective with whatever the hell you use (though you should be using something good) since the ranges you'll be fighting at are so short.

Side note I was angry at first because I thought you were talking down at people who worked with their hands but; It's never to late to start. And its not as manly or whatever as you think.

The only reason to buy anything shorter than a 16" is if you already have one and want the oper8r cool guy shortie. You give up so much velocity at 11.5" and you should never use it as your only means to defend yourself if you can help it. I'd say always start with 16" if it's your first rifle.

Thanks! In terms of the lower what should I do, is the shockwave alright? And should I just get a regular carbine length lower or what? I am confused.

I work at a bank right now which is a pretty clean job and the male staff is a bunch of monsters. I train BJJ, boxing, im starting wrestling. Theres a massive 7 ft tall former kickboxer, got a bodybuilder who used to do shows, another guy who used to play football and lifted quite a bit. Absolute crew. My dads iron curtain hands still crush mine like a twig though LOL.

Honestly I just prefer working with my body I think. I would like to master a trade or something and spend my free time training, raising a family, and studying philosophy. Kinda like my idol Socrates.

I pretty much agree with you. Has a point, and its probably 100% accurate. But I still feel like I would rather be ready for anything.

No, the Shockwave is a piece of shit for multiple reasons. Go for the SBA3 or something else that fits to a carbine receiver extension.
This is such utter bullshit. You're not in the mountains of Afghanistan. You're a civilian, you'll likely never have to shoot people past a couple hundred yards.

You should take up butchery. Natural hand strength.
Side note, working will mechanic shit and tools only hardens your hands after you know what you're doing.
Take a hand flex with you when you take a shit and just grip it with the little rabbit drops.

I thought i'd use my rifle for homedefense but honestly I've ended up taking it to my friends camp for noguns to shoot than anything.

>I thought i'd use my rifle for homedefense but honestly I've ended up taking it to my friends camp for noguns to shoot than anything.
What, are you expecting home invasions every Tuesday night or something?

>You're not in the mountains of Afghanistan
Yeah, but that doesn't mean you should get a gun that shoots objectively worse. Not to mention that you can't legally put a stock on it. It's all up to the OP, but my opinion was to go for the 16". Go pound sand if you don't agree.

Side note I agree with you BUT shoot aggressive animals constantly. That in mind; I keep my rifle at 16" because I need to hit between 30-400m if possible.

No I'm I constantly shoot coyote and foxes(and soon wolves) aggressing my neighbors land and livestock. I do this maybe once a week where as my friends want(and will buy the ammo and show up) to do this much more often.

I know, this is why I considered the Pistol. However I also am taking into consideration a mid length gas system and the superior 6.5 inch dwell time on the rifle.

>Yeah, but that doesn't mean you should get a gun that shoots objectively worse.
Shoots worse, how? Shorter terminally effective range? See above, you're a civilian. Shorter ballistic range? If you want to shoot 600-700m with the gun, sure. Most people don't have access to even 300m, though. The mid-length gas 16" barrel will have a lower secondary recoil impulse, yes, but it's not really that big of an improvement.
>Not to mention that you can't legally put a stock on it
Absolutely you can, you register it as an SBR. Not that you really need a stock anymore.
>Go pound sand if you don't agree.
Same to you.
That's fine then, but you can hit 300-400m with an 11.5" barrel. The extra velocity from a 16" will make it shoot flatter, but you can do it if you just practice the hold.

You have a pretty bad superiority complex for a welfare queen. That is, if you even are/were in the military.

>Shoots worse, how
Less velocity, more recoil,, wear & tear, and gas in your face, louder.

>Absolutely you can, you register it as an SBR
Yeah, and that's exactly what you should be suggesting to somebody who's just buying their first AR015. Surely it's good advice because it's not a long convoluted process at all.

(You)
(You)
That's fine then, but you can hit 300-400m with an 11.5" barrel.
What no I said I have a 16"...

What city do you live in? The ban only applies to non homerule cities (which the vast majority of cities in Cook County are). Also you should consider moving out of Illinois if you're able, homes/taxes in NW Indiana are so much fucking lower that I regret not moving sooner

>You have a pretty bad superiority complex for a welfare queen.
Who the fuck said I was a welfare queen? And where are you getting a superiority complex from?
>Less velocity
Yes, which manifests itself in two ways that matter. Terminal effective range and maximum ballistic range. Both will be more than sufficient from an 11.5" for almost anything you could want to do with it in a defensive scenario and at a range you'll probably not be able to exhaust the capabilities either. As I said, most people don't even have a place to shoot farther than 300m. Hell, if you're anywhere near a city you probably have nowhere to shoot past 25.
>more recoil
It's really not noticeable if you aren't looking for it.
>wear & tear
Negligible.
>gas in your face
Get a barrel with a correctly sized gas port. You can have this problem with literally any AR-15.
>louder
Neither is quiet, so who cares?
>Yeah, and that's exactly what you should be suggesting to somebody who's just buying their first AR015.
I didn't suggest that. I suggested a brace.
>Surely it's good advice because it's not a long convoluted process at all.
It's really not if you can read.

Get an SBA3 not a shockwave. The difference in quality isn't even something I can put into words. I've used both. Don't get the shockwave. DO NOT. Also ditch the Aero sights, I love Aero but those sights aren't great. Just get MBUS. Likewise on BCG just get an on sale PSA one, no logo if you're self-conscious about being a poorfag. They're literally all the same shit, don't pay more for a brand.

I'd go 11.5. It's fun. Fun things are fun. It's also good for HD and suitable for any range you'd ever need to actually shoot to. Effective within 300m.
No. Get the Raptor or go fuck yourself. Again, used both, it's just that much better.

>Less velocity
Which doesn't matter. Paper doesn't care how hard you hit it, and anything user actually shoots to kill is going to be within 50m in all likelyhood.
>recoil, wear and tear, gas
Aren't an issue with 11.5. 10.3/10.5, yes, if full auto or suppressed. I'm gonna guess babby's first AR is going to be neither. Even then, it's fine, just not ideal. But none of that matters since we're talking about 11.5
>louder
And? If you're wearing earpro you're fine. If you're not, oh shit nigger what are you doing. Take it from me: a 10.3" will make your ears ring, but you'll get most of your hearing back eventually.

>Also ditch the Aero sights, I love Aero but those sights aren't great. Just get MBUS.
I've used both and massively prefer the aero sights. What don't you like about them?

Jesus, why are you so massively over paying for everything? $140 sights? $200 lower? Im not recommending PSA, but thats way too much for sights and a lower.

Mine broke. Not my picture, same failure. I've abused MBUS a lot more, never had an issue.
>but thats way too much for sights and a lower.
> $140 sights?
Pretty ok price for sights
>$200 lower
That's close to PSA pricing.

You do know when you see people say they got a lower for like $50, it's stripped, right?

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Oh fuck. I'll consider replacing them then.

>MBUS
Otherwise a decent post

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For a 5.56 AR I'd recommend 16-20". 18 being ideal. That caliber doesn't do well out of short barrels, it's designed to fragment and fragmentation won't occur unless you get the round up to certain velocities.

An AR just has to be a long gun, you have to accept that. The stock won't even fold anyway so it can never really be that short. If you want a short gun get something else. The AK caliber does well out of short barrels, and there's several bullpups on the market that don't suck.

It makes me sad. I'm from the same area as Aero precision, and even without considering that I just really like their shit. So I like supporting them.
military.com/kitup/2012/07/back-up-iron-sight-drop-test.html

Keep paying more for less, I won't stop you.

Not saying they're bad, just shit taste desu

>I'm from the same area as Aero precision
Same, I'm in Skagit. Looks like we're all going to get fucked hard pretty soon as well with all this bullshit that will probably pass.

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Yeah I think we are non homerule, although I am not sure what that is. The police man I spoke with said I need to double check county and state laws as well.

The sights are free with the upper so I don't care. Lower seems fair.

I have seen the PMA ones I don't think the quality is the same, this is a part worth spending on.

This seems to be what people online thought when testing barrel lengths with the 5.56... but these guys here are vouching for 11.5. I am so confused now.

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> no forward assist
Gross... Just get a pin and weld 14.5 like everyone else unless you own a suppressor... Also 12.5 mid gas is the superior pistol length barrel for suppressed 556 so all your options are crap.

I have seen the PMA ones I don't think the quality is the same
Based off of what exactly? PSA BCGs are made by toolcraft. They're making them for the US army and a lot of other manufacturers too. Much like lowers, there are a lot of names stamped on a lot fewer actual producers making the part. It's all branding, and it's all bullshit unless you're buying some proprietary crap like KAC.

Thanks.

>Like everyone else
>Having next to no dwell time
Just stop already.

I am comparing the one on sale right now to mine, the steel is weaker and I don't see anything about shot peening.

Also I am pretty sure Aero is one of the actual producers.

The thing that bothers me about those sights, I have them on my AERO build, is that you can't let it rest on the small aperture only the close in one... I don't know if that's just how flip ups are but no sir I don't like it.

>steel is weaker
Actually, PSA's cheapest bcg is 9310. This is a better, slower wearing steel than 8620, which is what that Aero's bcg uses. It is very similar to 158 military meme proprietary steel. Or you can go up to $70 and get the real deal carpenter 158 military meme steel.

You will literally never notice the difference.

>I am so confused now.
Can't tell you what to buy, but I can explain the two main reasons you're getting such conflicting answers.

First, there's the question of what maximum range you need to worry about -- and everyone telling you what barrel length to get is basing that on their own ideas about range. Even a concept like "home defense" can mean different ranges to different people -- some suburban guy is thinking "across my living room, 10 yards at most", while somebody on a ranch might be thinking "somebody hiding in the treeline 150 yards from the back porch".

Second, there's a question of what sort of ammo you plan to use.

FMJ needs a lot of velocity to get any decent performance out of it.
Out of 7" barrels, it's not fast enough at all.
Out of 10-12" barrels, it has just enough velocity to work at short range, but as the range increases, the bullet loses velocity and quickly becomes ineffective.
Out of 16-20" barrels, the bullet has enough velocity to go hundreds of yards and still remain effective.

The military is stuck with FMJ for historical reasons, but you're not the military -- you have a wide variety of hollow-point and soft-point ammo available, much of it effective at substantially lower velocities than FMJ. So with good ammo selection, 7" barrels become viable at short range, while 11.5" barrels can work out to considerable ranges.

Some people still only consider FMJ, though, for a variety of good and bad reasons. Some are making a choice to use the same ammo for plinking, practice, and defense, and thus choosing FMJ because it's the only option cheap enough for plinking and practice. Some just want to do whatever the military does, either as a form of LARP, or because they believe the military automatically makes the best decisions. Some want to be sure their gun will be effective at long range with whatever ammo they can scrounge or barter for in SHTF. And some just plain haven't thought about their ammo options.

You can get Holosun red dots off eBay for less than $140. Make sure it is a legit dealer though.

My bad I thought the aero was all meme steel, you right you right. Doesn't change the fact they wont ship to me in Illinois. :(

Was gonna go with FMJ because I am poor. Sounds like 16 is the way to go. I am suburban however.

Going to bed, thanks for all the help so far guys. Gonna check back in tomorrow!

You're confusing bolt carriers with bolts.

Bolt carriers are generally made from case-hardened 8620, which is fine because they're a low-stress part. Also some oddballs of titanium, aluminum, or whatever.
Bolts, on the other hand, are highly-stressed, and really need a higher core hardness for adequate strength; they're usually C158 (milspec) or 9310. There's some odd high-strength alloys like Aermet 100 used for various gucci bolts, but nobody's made AR-15 bolts out of 8620 this century.

Once upon a time, AR-15 and M16 bolts were made of chromed 8620, but the bolts didn't hold up well (they'd fail even quicker with today's hot 5.56 loads); they were soon replaced with the parkerized C158 that's the current milspec.

so can you ger an AR pistol in 5.7 or something that isn't ear destroying if you ever have to actually fire the damned thing? perhaps 9x`9, that would be good in a PDW.

Don't listen to this fucking retard. He thinks he's limited to garbage like M193 or M855.

get one the size of your dick.
I recommend the berretta jetfire.

Holy shit, $140 for the retardedly dated Troy BUIS, why do people do this

Shut up >civilian

As opposed to the military, who are engaging targets farther away AND have restrictions on the ammunition they can use.

Retard.