Officer or Enlisted

If you’re in the navy you get your own bed to sleep in

Officers
>Meetings, meetings, more meetings
>Paperwork, emails and spreadsheets
>Constantly running around after senior officers
>Constantly waiting for senior officers
>Having to write reports for people you barely know
>Having to wear a suit to dinner

Enlisted
>Do the job you signed up for
>All that is expected of you is not to drink and drive

Once you get past Major, life is dam good

This.

US Army officers are treated like adults, but the job is really fucking stressful if you want to actually succeed. You have to know what your boss wants you to know without him telling you, before he asks for it. You really should be a well organized and motivated person, imo this kind of person would do better outside of the military. That talent is wasted in the Army, at least. If you want the experience, sure go ahead and try to get a commission. I wouldn't say officers lives are any more enjoyable than enlisted, however. They train about the same, if not harder at PT. They have more disposable cash, but they also have office politics from hell.

Being a junior officer is basically like being enlisted but with more responsibility

how so?

Enlisted=being someone's little bitch, always following orders for a whopping 24 grand a year for most. Your role isn't that important, you are tasked out to do menial tasks and you are literally expendable. Constantly chastised and shit on.

Officer= automatically being out in a supervisory role, get paid as much as a e6/e-7 with several years in service already. If you don't like being told what to do all the time, this is the best option. Retirement as an officer o-3 also is better than taking it up the ass just to make e-8/e-9 and retire.

Please save yourself the trouble and don’t join the military period if you’re thinking about it. No amount of words or posts could do the blasphemy that is the modern military justice.

Being a flier in general is pretty awesome. We get to wear flights suits, leather jackets, have squadron bars, and don't have to deal with the supervisory stuff for the first few years after training.

what happens to pilots that don't drink? are they flown from the flag poles outside while the rest of you have fun?

>also have office politics from hell.
Enlisted personnel in pog positions have the same office politics.

As an older than average soldier to start in, i immediately notice the negative nancy attitude from all the E1-E4s in the 18 to 25 age range. I have yet to have someone justify their negative attitude to me that wasnt in that demographic.

Gonna get my branch via OCS this week and still haven't quite made up my mind on what I want. I'm leaning towards Engineer but I'm also open to Armor, Transport, and ADA. Anybody got any strong opinions or advice on this? Should be able to get my first choice because I'm pretty high on the OML.

Queen Elizabeth performed an enlisted role in the Auxilliary Territorial Service, auto mechanic, although she was given a honourary rank equivalent to 2nd Lt. and so didn't actually hold an enlisted rank.

Well Damn. More Respect for her.
Harry too.

His bald older brother, yeah, he did Royal Navy.
Better looking wife though.

Being an officer is fucking cash.
>Lots of officers are super bros.
>Instantly regarded as a corporate professional just for having been an officer.
>Exclusive society akin to old caste/royalty systems.

Depends on the designator, aviators and NFOs are frat boys and each squadron is like a frat, whereas SWOs will skin each other alive to get ahead. Shit's weird, fucking black shoes

Enlisted
>You're the one tasked with carrying out/seeing through/orchestrating whatever bullshit/stupidity/lunacy the officer tasked the team/squad/unit with.
>You're basically the bullshit link.

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Crownprince Frederik of Denmark served as a recruit and guard in the royal guard in 1986. Later on he became a sergeant in the royal guard.

For his complete military career see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederik,_Crown_Prince_of_Denmark#Military_service

You’ll take some good natured ribbing but ultimately be loved as the steadfast DD. Doubly so if you have a big comfy car.
From what I’ve seen it goes full circle with Intel and Crypto types being so laid back to the point that it’ll make you uneasy. Worked with an intel commander who got annoyed at people knocking to enter his office or waiting until he was done talking to someone to enter the conversation. Always just floated around the office and came to chat with everyone. They always felt like they were up to something, but I think it was only because they felt like civilians in a uniform.

Offices are now redundant.

In the past Officers were needed because only they could read and write. They could be trusted to order their troops to die and were vastly less likely to run away at slight difficulties. Today every grunt can read, write and do math to a level that would shame most historical officers. Officers are generally holding back the enlisted from being overly aggressive.

But it's traditional to have officers now so everyone does it any to even suggest that they are unneeded is a capital crime in the view of the military.

>how so?
Imagine being in charge of doing basic/easy shit and tasks assigned to you, but having to orchestrate it from a command standpoint.
That means deconflicting shit, writing endless contingency plans, having a perfectly proofed risk assessment form for everything you do, etc...
And also it's your ass if something goes wrong, whereas joe can break or lose whatever he wants.

>I'm leaning towards Engineer but I'm also open to Armor, Transport, and ADA. Anybody got any strong opinions or advice on this? Should be able to get my first choice because I'm pretty high on the OML.

>Engineer
Cool

>Armor
Cool but hard to get.

>Transport
Difficult job but super easy to get and people laugh at you.

>ADA
/literally who/ but you'll get that coveted deployment.

You are fucking retarded. Officers and NCO will always need to exist (and with a fraternization barrier) because its easier to send people off to die who are not your friends.

Not even close. As long as you do your pog job and score at PT and proceed through NCO development you're fine. Officers have to deal with smiling backstabbers and good old boy favors. Sometimes you just can't win.

>You are fucking retarded. Officers and NCO will always need to exist (and with a fraternization barrier) because its easier to send people off to die who are not your friends.
Thanks for proving me right.

>good old boy favors.
Officers from senior military colleges are horrendous about this.

Which one has less shitskins? Officer or enlisted?

Harry failed out of flight school and became some sort of professional cuckold/aerial gunner. He should unironically suicide himself.

Who was the Brit prince that was in the Falklands? I think he was on the Conveyor when she sucked up a few exocets. Probably the most intense combat a bong noble has been in for a while

Officers by a massive amount. Even in shitskins nations (India and Mexico) the officer corps is of a lighter shade and higher intellectual capacity.

I could probably get armor, so long as my last grade I'm getting before branching isn't shit. But good to know about Transpo, I was thinking it was a great Avenue for post Army career opportunities.

>But good to know about Transpo, I was thinking it was a great Avenue for post Army career opportunities.
It is.
The masters you get at the captains career course for it is an easy ticket to 6-figures.

It's a great job and nobody wants it/you need minimal OML to get it.
Just very stressful, very thankless, and you get shit on for it.

Its not helpful to be disgusted by the enlisted right?

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if you are, you're probably just a butter bar academy brat

>Implying trying to minimize casualties and 'no man left behind' has won anyone anything ever

Retard

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>Its not helpful to be disgusted by the enlisted right?
No, but most Os are.

Imagine spending four years in college only to pop out among snapback/fitted hat wearing calf/forearm-tattoo-having mongoloids that look like they'd be better off at a golden coral buffet in a trailer park or ghetto.

Actually, just walk around golden corral; that's the type of person that 70-80% of enlisted are.

dear all officers from an enlisted grunt
fuck you
please stop making me do dumb shit

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Every day I think more and more that I will wind up trying or Leafland's infantry officer course
Does anyone have any experience with it here?

Submit that warrant package/OCS package or learn to deal with it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Dear grunt on behalf of all officers.
NO
If it makes you feel better we all have to do dumb shit

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>warrant or OCS
ew no POG, id rather you tell me to fuck off and die.

>we all have to do dumb shit
acceptable thank you sir.

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I had a very strange experience in the military, that seemed to be an inversion of everyone else's. I think it was localized to our company, because the other companies in the battalion were very different.

Every single company commander I ever had was prior enlisted, and was super chill. The battalion had 0 lieutenants. That was cool. The SNCOs were pretty chill, with the exception of that one time first sausage flipped his lid because someone got a DUI. The previous first sausage didn't care if you got arrested though, he would just come pick you up and laugh at you.

But our NCOs? Total garbage fire, and only handful of good NCOs. The rest were raging douches, most of which had never deployed. 98% of the bullshit in our company came from buck sergeants. CO said to enjoy your time off? Squad leader said naw famalam, we doing white glove room inspections every 4 hours.

Well it plays into the fact that most NCOs are miserable human beings (if you ever get a chance, go to an E-5/E-6's home and take a good hard look at how they live, and what their wife/kids look like LOL).

If your personal life is non-stop misery and pain that will eventually end in a suicide/domestic incident/drug and alcohol abuse, you'll want to spread your misery towards everything else.

Its why they say the enlisted corps is the world biggest bucket of crabs. Every NCO suffers from Crab in a Bucket syndrome.

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I went to one of the E-6's houses once for a bbq, his wife was fat and ugly, his kids were shitheads, and I felt so bad for him. But at the same time it's like, guy, if your home life is so bad, get a hobby and do shit off post, don't make everyone do extra shit around the b's on your off time.

What blew my mind, was the batch of guys who were specialists with us, then got promoted when points somehow dropped to minimum for a month, and then back up to near max. It was like 8 guys who got promoted all at once, and immediately all turned into power tripping douches because they thought they were the hottest shit ever. One of them was the platoon retard who was approaching higher tenure, and somehow he wasn't even the worst of the lot.

The worst was a guy who came to us right after getting done with a quick start deployment. Because of this quick start deployment, he acted like he was the hardest motherfuckers in the Army. For those who don't know, quick start deployments are bullshit little 6 month stints these kids do right out of AIT sitting in the AC on Bagram watching bootleg movies. No actual work. He was so bad at the work in our section but acted like he knew everything. Worst NCO ever.

Prince Andrew. And he was a helicopter pilot and not on the Coventry. What he did do that was pretty interesting was the brits tried to use helicopters to bait out exocet attacks, and he flew a few of those missions.

And what have you done

What about NCO's? Whats the daily life of an NCO like? Worse or comparable to an officer / enlisted?

NCOs are enlisted you big ol goofball

well if you go by my countries military, think officer, but you just get paid a fuck load less.

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forgot the upside, at least your still one of the boiz, to an extent

>be company grade infantry officer
>your entire job is to make your people do stupid shit they don’t want to do
>your own evals depend on it

It’s nothing personal. It’s just business.

The problem is that most company grade officers (in the infantry especially) are huge moto doiches who have no idea what leadership means outside of the JJDIDTIEBUCKLE nonsense they’re taught in ROTC/Academy/OCS

Life would be much easier for everyone if lieutenants/captains had the balls to tell their people “Look, I know this is fucking stupid, but we have to do it so let’s just get it done and we can all go home early.”

K Excellence ATM, when it absolutely has to be numba one sucky-fucky.

>be rear d e2
>brigade formation outdoors
>20F
>using all the willpower drilled into me at basic to keep hands out of pockets
>acting bn commander tells everyone to put their hands in their pockets
>dudes from other bns give us weird looks
>mfw

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>Today every grunt can read, write and do math to a level that would shame most historical officers.
Every grunt in the Civil War could read and write on a level that would shame most modern officers.

Well, yeah, I know that, but they have seniority among the overall enlisted population and generally do more administration tasks.

Similar levels of responsibility? I know the pay grades are a pretty hefty step down, at least in the States, but I don't know too too much about whats expected / required out of NCO's or their culture.

SNCOs are generally more admin, lower level NCOs are generally more hands on but will still take care of some admin stuff.

Corporals are bitches.

>Engineer
Lots of assignment diversity, generally a good branch to be in.

>Transport
Eh. If you're into logistics shit, go for it, but Engineers is a better branch.

>Armor
Cool, but little assignment diversity and since the wars have ended they've had a notable promotion/command disadvantage at the upper end compared to Infantry. I also think the branch might get fucked by women who want to be COMBAT ARMS but don't want to go to Ranger School.

>ADA
The job itself is boring as shit, but it has high promotion/command rates and has a lot of overseas deployment and assignments, some of which are very cool (J A P A N).

>NCO responsibility

Not him, but generally: a ton less.

US/UK/NATO Euro/Israel (maybe Japan) are the only countries that actually value a professional NCO Corps. Elsewhere your only job is to be “top conscript”.

There was a Jow Forumsommando who used to post who was a French armor officer who went to Ukraine to give tactical instruction a few years back. He was given a Combloc small arms course...by a Uke Colonel.

They don’t trust enlisted to do anything in most parts of he world. Read “Why Arabs Lose Wars” for more insight on this.

>Engineer

Does this feed the USACE? I still can’t figure out how their personnel structure works, since they have civilian employees and actual officers who didn’t even study engineering in school. (I’m a civilian civil engineer)

>ADA

Is THAAD/ballistic missile/ “theater” air defense manned by these guys? I can’t imagine there’s an entire branch that just employs Stingers and other short range missiles and trains for the day we’ll need tactical SAMs in case we get into medium intensity conflict with the Russians/Chicoms.

>Does this feed the USACE?
Yes -- that's where those "officers without engineering degrees" come from. It's typically an assignment you get when you're a Major or maybe Captain at the earliest, not something you do for a first duty station though. I'm not sure how feasible it is to spend long periods of time (more than 3-4 years) in USACE as an active duty officer, but you can definitely go there. And your degree -- especially if you have a P.E. -- WILL help you there, although it's not required. Think of it as more a long-term thing, since another option with Engineers officer -> USACE is to get a USACE uniformed position as a terminal assignment and then switch over to a civilian job there. Any more detail is outside my knowledge.

>Is THAAD/ballistic missile/ “theater” air defense manned by these guys?

Yes indeed they are.

>moto douche
>i have an EGA and USMC tattoo

i see

also
>be me
>at 29 stumps
>field
>CO says to do something
>tired and was on firewatch night before
>fuck you CO what are you going to do send me to afghanistan
>sent to afghanistan after

wasn't njp'd but fuck you

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Not fail out of flight school, even without being a silver spoon royal... Three big boy deployments with the air wing. And I didn't marry a divorced stripper and spawn a gender neutral goblin with her. Your turn, cock drainer.

You are so fucking wrong, if I had to sit around in an office and do ORMs all day I would fucking off myself
t. 0311 E-5
That being said, as someone who has studied chemical engineering for a few years at a decent engineering school; I'm not sure that a spending 5 years getting a BA in Underwater Basket Weaving at Podunk State with a C's get degrees GPA because you were a D1 wrestler or football player qualifies you for the E to O bump

The lowest ranks who don't really think about their career seemed to have the most fun to me. I'm sure it's good for some officers though.

I'll tell you what it's like to be an nco

t. 11B E6

>wake up at 0330
>leaders meeting
>wake up the chow detail
>make sure they have their sensitive
>personal hygiene
>Wake up my own squad
>time 0430
>check sensitives
>make sure they do personal hygiene
>check SIs again
>breakfast time, Joe's eat first
>be the last one to eat so you go over the plan for the day with Plt daddy
>got ammo detail for the range
>have broke dicks, Senior E4s and cadets in detail
>nothing gets done so you smoke the cadets and broke dicks while the SE4s get you dip and monster
>have to do the job yourself because everyone else is useless and on their phone
>distribute ammo for the entire company
>make sure your Joe's are practicing until its your squads turn
>you're told 5m before its your squads turn to get ready
>have 20 seconds to put body armor on
>go over the plan
>dogandponyshow
>brief your team leaders and remind them to follow directions
>????????????
>comeback from interation
>platoon daddy pissed because LT fuck face fuck up the ambush
>another leaders meeting
>ammo shack unattended with retards in it
>sit and ponder what your whore ex wife is doing with Jody and the money she took from the divorce
feelsbadman.

That's the average life of an NCO out in the field.

I agree, I was lucky enough to have always served under prior enlisted officers. Back when I was in the 1st Bat they would only get commanders who where prior NCOs first. (Their recruitment standards after RIP where very very strict for officers) my guard unit was the same way but when I was in the 82nd? Bunch of fucking overpaid autistic philosophy majors that played football in their shitty rural college leagues and barely passed ranger school. Fuck them, they completely destroyed my motivation to become an officer myself, now I'm just enlisted and cannot wait for the day to leave the military all together, smoke weed and make 6s figures in Alaska in the civilian sector.

If you're OCS then it doesn't matter. It's whatever they have available

this man knows. fwiw user you're giving some dumbass private some good training at least.

>0330
are you a DS jesus what the fuck. i had a handful of wakeups that early in garrison as intel. usually up by 0430.

We appreciate and love you sergeant.
We are just afraid to tell you how we feel.
To some guys you could be the closest thing they have ever had to a father. Keep up the good work sarg user.

Not him but as intel I would wake up 0300-0330. I liked to take my time getting ready in the morning though, nice long shower, style my out of regs hair. Shift stared at 0500, work call was 0445, platoon formation was 0430. Well, used to not even have formation but dickhead staff sausage showed up and made us do formation and then moved it up to 0400 because the platoon's resident retard couldn't even show up on time. So the rest of the platoon was standing outside at 0350 waiting for fuckwad to stumble up at 0442.

Are officers still allowed to shoot enlisted for disobedience?

thebalancecareers.com/military-orders-3332819
Here is articles pertaining to USMJ and it talks about lawful order and disobedience.
Short answer is no not in the US Military. Kinda a dumb question guy.

What's it like having an extra chromosome?

Such as? And is this true for all branches?

>You are so fucking wrong, if I had to sit around in an office and do ORMs all day I would fucking off myself
If I had to sit around doing officer busy work in a military that no longer had officers making busy work to justify their jobs I'd kill myself as well.

I think it really depends on the job.

As a navy intel guy I've seen the role of Officer and Enlisted blend in certain communities like NSW or SO and the Barrier being strictly enforced in Surface and shore navy type shit. It can be very egalitarian or not depending on your location.

Back as an E nothing who could get up and convey information in an accurate, and relevant matter compared to some of the O's I reaped a decent amount of satisfaction and respect. We did a similar job operationally. Some O's and NCOs would often get snubbed when the J2 or N2 came looking for the "go to guy." I just wasnt in a leadership position right away unlike an ENS who can start as a DIVO.

On a ship? Quality of life def goes to O's. Boots on ground? Negligible. In fairness the navy O's have a bunch of dumb rules themselves, CO and XOs typically ride thier asses the hardest.

I'm making a push for Officer now but for my reasons. There's many in my rate though that have adv degrees and don't care to be a "cake eater".

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how to not be a terrible officer? almost done with Army ROTC and I feel like the only thing of value I have learned is
>listen to your NCOs
not that that is bad advice, but I would appreciate a little more

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Listen to NCOs but recognize that bad NCOs do exist. ROTC is like special ed, I see them around campus and fuck are they stupid.

I'm former army intel, but worked alongside CTTs and CTRs. Considering going Navy O for intel once I get my degree.

>ROTC is like special ed
it’s so much worse senpai

>Such as? And is this true for all branches?
Such as what nigga?

Citadel guys help Citadel guys, A&M guys help out A&M guys, VMI helps VMI.
Birds of a feather flock together.

Why do Amerilards act like European Royals are a bunch of Hitler-tide tyrants when most of them are pretty cool guys?

You also forgot
Enlisted
>don’t be a rapist

Most of them are descendants of Irishmen

They seem to have a lot of trouble with that.

I’m 25, been in the navy for about 8 months, I joined late. I personally have not met or seen anyone who has gotten into trouble because of rape/sexual assault (I’m sure that will change over the next three years). But, from seeing what other folk have gotten in trouble for, I would imagine the pattern is something like this:
>young 18-21 year olds start drinking heavily, enjoying freedom away from their family
>do some dumbass and sometimes criminal shit
>females get too drunk since they are also drinking heavily and are away from their families for the first time ever, put themselves in terrible situations (not saying drunk thots deserve blame I’m not an edgy 14 Jow Forumslack).
I would imagine college has higher rape in both raw numbers and per capita.

In the past two years I've had three enlisted guys I thought were completely normal dudes go down for rape.
I don't get why guys can't keep their cocks in their pants.

Natty Guard, but still.

This is more or less true

My PSG acts like a E4. He's a joke to our company and everyone wonders how he pinned 7. I have people apologise for how bad he is. No replacement in sight.

He's so bad our brand new CSM who'd been here only a week wanted to fire him because of how incompetent he is.

Something 90% of rapes involved drugs and alcohol. I don’t judge how normal someone is until I see them drunk. I grew up in the Ft Lauderdale/Miami area, in an environment full of drugs and alcohol and “normal” people who become total animals when they do a bit of coke or drink a *little* bit more than they should. I’m a firm believer that intoxicated minds speak sober thoughts, and by extension, the shit that you do when you’re fucked up is the shit you really wanna do when you’re sober.
I don’t know about the guys you knew who got busted for rape. The one dude I knew who got busted for killing and raping his adopted mother seemed like a pretty normal guy. He was a petty criminal but nothing indicated that he would do something horrific like that.