What's up Jow Forums. I've read threads concerning Ruby Ridge and Waco more times then I can count here but I want to delve deeper into the incidents and be able to cite something solid if I ever discuss it with friends. Can you recommend me some books I can read so I can properly redpill them?
Waco and Ruby Ridge
Chase Lewis
Nathan Jenkins
Google Gerry Spence Ruby Ridge court transcript
Bentley Sanders
Tyler Edwards
>your face when US government has killed more Americans than king George ever did
Asher Sanchez
Waco was the result of a pedo messianic cult running headfirst into leftover 80's cryptofascism. Ruby Ridge is what happens when hard luck meets bureaucratic stupidity.
Lucas Kelly
I didn't know the Branch Davidians were cryptofascists, now I like them even more!
Robert Bell
>cryptofascism
Shut up you pseudo-communist
Mason Gray
I think he means the government
Robert Ortiz
Gabriel Lopez
Waco
>worse than you think
Ruby Ridge
>not as bad as you think
Waco was planned as a show of force but Ruby Ridge was mostly the fault of Randy Weaver, who wasn't set up. Biggest fuckup was FBI's ROE during the siege, not that the siege happened to begin with. The folks at Waco did literally nothing wrong.
Daniel Allen
>implying the government isn't made up of pedophile cultists who think lucifer is their messiah
/x/pol/ is right, pizzagate is real, and nothing that anybody says will ever be able to convince me otherwise
Wyatt Bennett
Paedophiles got BTFO, and Jow Forums anime fans (paedos) are still asspained that some of their own got ventilated.
Ian Carter
Waco and Ruby Ridge are warcrimes committed on US soil.
Children and women slaughtered in their homes over nonsensical charges.
The ATF is not a law enforcement agency, its a gang of thugs.
The NFA is a violation of basic human rights, and the ATF tried taking these basic human rights from some brave men who did not like that.
Finally a dude named Timothy Mcveigh got revenge for all those lost, and his heroism was infinitely more impactful than either sieges.
TL:DR
waco and ruby ridge are like the first two boring books in a trilogy
oklahoma city is the really cool finale
Robert Brooks
>Ruby Ridge was mostly the fault of Randy Weaver
Oh fuck off, you slimy cunt.
Landon Young
the jakes literally fucked up both situations by trying way too hard.
Dominic Rogers
There's nothing "crypto" about the fascist ATF.
Christopher Rogers
>"Paedo"
Found the bong. Isn't it illegal for you to be on Jow Forums?
Brayden Mitchell
>blow up building
>kill precisely 0 ATF agents
>kills group of kids at daycare
>kills American militias
Wow, what a win!
Julian Lewis
>kills children
>has children killed in retaliation
>"we wuz victems"
Cameron Sanchez
And how has McVeigh's insurrection solved anything? Cowabunga will come, but when it does it will only be worthwhile if it is possible to create a narrative. McVeigh didn't understand the importance of narrative and that's why he's dead with nothing to show for it and you're a retard.
Henry Thompson
Jackson Gomez
Jayden Taylor
Joseph Campbell
Will there ever be another standoff as aesthetic as this in the social media age?
Sebastian Richardson
Ayden Butler
(you)
Blake Davis
Isaiah Watson
Wyatt Johnson
>Feds are fucking with white, law abiding Americans
>Blow up building because this makes you mad
>Feds cut their shit out and don't dare escalate any situation further with white, armed Americans (see Bundy Standoff)
Isaiah Walker
Bentley Allen
Waco:
>Be weirdo fucking cult
>Arm up for militia larp
>Bust shots and annoy the neighbors who are sick of your shit already for being weirdos with the noise
>This is after your leader took control in a literal violent coup, mind you
>Get SWAT'd
>Instead of using your vast financial resources to fight the ATF in court, decide to resist arrest
>Get zerg rushed by respawning guards
>Do well enough in the fight that the feds just siege you and eventually burn you to death with incendiaries instead of wasting time on a gunfight
>Leader and 70+ followers dead for literally no benefit to anyone
Ruby Ridge:
>Be dipshit white supremacist survivalist living in the woods with hick family
>Attend honeypot meetings because you're a dipshit
>Get involved with a rando who totally isn't an obvious plant
>Despite being a gov-distrusting survivalist, decide to conduct a gun transaction with a near total stranger
>Either saw off a shotgun or sell a shotgun the gov later sawed off to fuck with you, unclear
>Skip all court dates and later claim you thought they dropped the matter even though you had a court date
>Teenage son opens fire on feds that come to arrest you, although this is justified since they appeared to just be dudes in fatigues wandering the area around your house with guns
>Half your family killed while resisting arrest for something stupid (who cares about an SBS, seriously) that you could have avoided by not fucking with random assholes you met at a honeypot club meeting
>Gov handling of the arrest is so fucked all charges end up dismissed because spoiler alert, even shitty fed judges don't think making a retarded shotgun is something worth sniping a housewife over
Basically they were both cases where people were suspected of NFA violations and likely could have beaten the rap in court but they chose to fight instead, which was commendable in its way given how stupid the NFA is, but they chose to fight at times when the feds were looking to flex.
Samuel Green
Hudson Martinez
It saved the guys at the Bundy standoff. 1990's ATF would have killed everyone within 10 miles.
Joshua Young
cool disinfo you've got there
Dominic Smith
Ethan Campbell
More like 1990's ATF would have been BTFO and cried for the FBI to bail them out.
Michael Smith
Parker Reyes
>I believe everything the government tells me
Christopher Foster
Randy missed his court date because the ATF sent him the wrong date. The US Marshall on his case told the ATF to wait for the date they actually told him, and they refused. He testified as much in Randy's defense.
The official government story is less pro-fed than this fag's version. What a bootlicking, star spangled cock sucking nigger he is.
Andrew Bailey
>Either saw off a shotgun or sell a shotgun the gov later sawed off to fuck with you, unclear
It's pretty fucking clear, he saved the piece he cut off, which strongly suggests he didn't cut it as short as they claimed. I certainly see nothing to make me think he was the sort of clever/arrogant to have cut it twice and saved the first piece to frame the government for framing him.
Brandon Perry
Brayden Nelson
there are more trustworthy places than Jow Forums if you want facts
Landon Cox
park ranger swat
Kevin Thompson
This.
/thread.
Dylan Price
>people actually defending the atf
Jackson Wilson
FBI took a wild shot and killed a woman holding her toddler behind a door because when you think FBI Hostage Rescue, you want itchy trigger fingers that result in a child getting splattered with their mother’s blood. Or they can just burn down the building with everyone in it, men, women, and children.
Remember, libshits dearly want only these people armed and you unarmed.
Easton Flores
>biggest fuckup was FBI ROE
Yea, because shooting an unarmed woman carrying her child isn’t the ultimate fuckup in that whole fucking mess.
Brandon Sanchez
What he means is that FBI ROE resulted in that. And other things.
OK still not convinced McVeigh wasn't sheep dipped and that wasn't a government false flag.
Angel Bell
*I'm still not convinced
Dunno how that typo happened
Luis Murphy
It’s impossible to “create a narrative” on our side, the media is owned by the government. That’s the worst thing about the 2A and the “right” we are so afraid to lose the imaginary moral high ground we take 0 action
Jace Perez
The internet is changing that. Look at how well conservatives are doing on youtube.
Kayden Morris
The lawyer and various others involved in the case repeatedly tried to contact him with the correct date via letters, phone, and through acquaintances. He purposefully never called the lawyer back and it's pretty clear his intention was to avoid the court date because he didn't believe he'd receive a fair trial, which is probably an accurate assumption but that's what you get when you're a poorfag who doesn't hire a decent attorney. They didn't even try to arrest him until months afterward AND he didn't show up for the revised court date anyway so the entire dindu nuffin argument is moot.
The best part of this is that all of this is all the more ironic that he distrusted the government THAT much but still chose to trust some dude at a white supremacist club even though it's been common knowledge since at least the 60s that any group with more than 5 people in it is jam packed with .gov plants. Shit, there's ATF agents at Jow Forums meetups and they're nothing but fat gaywads doing stupid shit in the woods.
Never encountered this one before, source? That's a smart play if true, but as you can see it doesn't help if the government puts you on a list, they'll just convict you anyway. Spoiler alert: the smartest play is to just never sell your guns unless and until the NFA is repealed, specifically for this exact reason.
Zachary Allen
You're wrong. The ATF did the raid immediately following the missed court date that he was never told. The US Marshall told them to cool it and wait awhile, and they chose to kill his son and wife instead.
William Adams
Have you noticed that all the pedophilia accusations don't start until the government already fucked up?
Brayden Howard
This... it’s a really common tactic. Call someone a kiddy diddler and they’re instantly a monster regardless of the facts. It’s a visceral reaction that nearly everyone has.
Henry Turner
Original court date - Feb 20, 1991
Erroneous court date - March 20, 1991
>"U.S. Marshals Service officers made a series of attempts to have Weaver surrender peacefully, but Weaver refused to leave his cabin. Weaver negotiated with U.S. Marshals Ron Evans, W. Warren Mays and David Hunt through third parties from March 5 to October 12, 1991"
The ATF wasn't even involved in the gunfights (which didn't happen until 1992 mind you), that was the US Marshals and FBI HRT snipers. If you don't actually know what happened I'm going to assume you're a dipshit millennial that got all his info from Jow Forums and didn't even bother with the 3 second google search it takes to fact check your claims. Weaver was actually given an immense timeframe to surrender peacefully compared to what most fugitives receive, he wanted to fight being arrested and got a bunch of his family killed over it.
Adrian Morris
>but Ruby Ridge was mostly the fault of Randy Weaver, who wasn't set up
mother fucker they literally sent him the wrong court dates so he would miss it so they could arrest him.
Luis Cox
Shill for the feds
Camden Roberts
The Bundy standoff outcome had nothing to do with McVeigh you dingus, and everything to do with the 24/7 news cycle and citizen journalism.
Ian Rogers
No amount of us owning media coverage makes ok look good. It was an evil act by a retarded man that would have served our enemies no matter how it was covered.
Henry Martinez
The media would have (and did) spin it to be evil white supremecists rebelling against the noble BLM. They would absolutely have backed the government if the Feds killed everyone involved.
Gavin Reyes
Randy Weaver's dog, son, and wife were killed and a friend was wounded because his order to appear in court was "lost in the mail". Read the link in F.P.
Dylan Clark
>Drinking the pedo cult kool aide
Good goy
Angel Martin
This... I saw plenty of normie jerkoffs of FB calling the Bundy Ranch guys domestic terrorists.
Connor Thomas
Waco literature is also on the atf website under “remebering waco” of you want an alternative perspective.
The court transcript will probably be the best source. As your very clever user (literally first reply) told you.
The bundy stand off was fucking retarded. Guy doesnt pay his taxes, grazes cows on gov property without paying the fee. They seize a few of his cows for the massive amount owed. He pulls a gun on them, then proceeds to twist the story and call to arms a bunch of pissed of militia tards that just want the opportunity to LARP.
To me , thats like not buying a hunting license , pulling a gun on the game warden trying to cite me, then saying that i don’t recognize thier law. Im shocked he got so much support.
Mason Martinez
Important fact:
Randy weaver was acquitted of ALL charges except violation of bail and missing his court date.
Kevin harris was acquited of ALL charges to include killing a marshal
Aaron Cruz
Less shitposting, more stamp processing, monkey. You're not actually law enforcement, your job is to approve my infringement fees.
Gavin Russell
>Bundy Ranch
You really gonna roll that way? Just... Summarize 20 years of government over reach and disputes. With a run on sentence. Like that encompasses the complete issue.
Thomas Perez
>The bundy stand off was fucking retarded. Guy doesnt pay his taxes, grazes cows on gov property without paying the fee.
Ask me how I know you don't know anything about the bundy ranch affair.
Blake Ross
>Well you see, if you miss a court date over a dodgy, trumped up charge then it's okay for stormtroopers to murder half your family. Plus, Weaver was rayciss so it was doubleplus good to murder his wife because that's what you get for being poor and doing wrongthink.
Parker Cook
Ah yes, the kings deer. Keep paying your fees like a good little cuck.
Zachary Sanchez
Dont worry, i will. Just like how taxes are taken out of my check. Just like how i have to pay taxes on land ive already paid off. Thats just adult life.
Jace Torres
Sure , ill ask
What did i get wrong.
I just simplified it.
Christian Williams
>Just like how taxes are taken out of my check.
You realize you can withhold taxes, right? If you're getting a tax return you're just giving the govt an interest free loan.
Cuck status: confirmed.
Daniel Davis
Nice digits
Brody Wood
Do you have that screen cap of the whoooollleeeeee 20 year run down? I've been digging through my folders and can't find it.
Jayden Diaz
How about stuff like the illegal surveillance, sniper teams, and trying to goad people to violence so they could kill them?
Ryder Flores
They can put quite literally anything into legislation and turn anyone into a criminal. Just look any the anti gun side, what are they always doing? Trying to turn average joes into criminals. With a system like that, every other law becomes suspect and the system behind them delegitimized.
Levi Hall
These are the key takeaways from Ruby Ridge.
Feds btfo.
Cameron Miller
OP, I haven't read any in-depth studies just on Waco and Ruby Ridge. They are nearly always framed in the context of heavy-handed government response inspiring McVeighs violence within the context of the White Power movement. Belew's "Bring the War Home" was a good example of this.
f you're looking for other examples of government responses to domestic unrest, "Days of Rage" covers the Maoist influence following the Vietnam war, Balko's "Rise of the Warrior Cop" follows the police's response to the drug war, and there's a well made documentary on the Rajneeshee's on Netflix.
Noah Jones
It literally is, killing the families of criminals is a more effective policing strategy than being a little bitch about it. Also, for the record, I never expressed an opinion on racism, just pointed out that being a racist and joining a racism club is a great way to get involved with a bunch of feds.
Try your histrionic cope voice somewhere else, it's an objective fact that the Weaver family had it coming.
Wyatt Peterson
do you shoot your Drag in drag?
Isaiah Myers
Before they end up getting taken down anyway
Jackson Bailey
>It's okay to kill women and children if someone misses a court date
Yeah, so you know that Weaver was actually acquitted charges except for missing a court date? He wasn't even a criminal until liberal statists, like yourself, decided that he was one simply for being white and armed. Keep on pretending like you're the good guys tho.
Xavier Roberts
Not him, but come on, man...
>objective fact that the Weaver family had it coming
> OBJECTIVE FACT
How do you make that jive with a government payout of $1,000,000 to his daughters and $100,000 to Weaver himself for the death of Vicki and Sammy Weaver. Hell man, the feds said they's never pay out to Harris after killing a marshall even with a not guilty verdict and he still got just shy of $400,000 from them.
David Johnson
By your logic the police would be justified in blowing away your mother while she's making you tendies because you're shitposting from her basement on a weapons forum with racists.
Chase Price
All of these are in relation to actions taken after what the inital cause was.
If he would have just paid his taxes or penalties he wouldnt have caused himself so much trouble. Additionally , at any given point he could have could have called off the bullshit show of force and peacefully resolved the issue in court.
Jaxson Evans
Lol what a bullshit response
John Johnson
I fail to see how thats bullshit.
Its not like this situation happened overnight.
Cliven Bundy pays his grazing fees for his cattle business from 1954 to 1993.
In 1991 The wildlife department makes 5% of their 400k acre land off limits for a tortoise. In 1993 The wildlife department ups that to 10%.
Bundy stops paying it and makes up some bullshit that he inherited some magic rule that doesnt exist.
In 1994 they terminate his permit due to non payment. He racks up fines and refuses to pay them, claiming he doesnt acknowledge them and claims to be a sovereign citizen.
They take bundy to court , he loses —sevral times.
Still doesnt pay his bills, now he’s getting violent.
BLM tells him to keep his cattle out, hes not paying and could give a fuck about the tortoise.
The BLM finally seizes some of his treaspassing cows to sell for non payment.
Stand off begins.
Gavin Price
Bundy still isnt paying his fees and owes well over a million.
I dont fee bad for people that get their car repossesed for non payment
I dont feel bad for deadbeat parents that get thrown into jail for not paying child support.
Logan Jenkins
you seem like the type of retard that gets mad when someone doesn't water down their argument so you can perform some poor mental gymnastics with it but either way kys
Ethan Thompson
>not only willingly but happily supporting taxation
wew lad
Evan Smith
>Have to pay fees just so your cows can eat some fucking grass
Jesus fucking christ.
Brandon Wright
The son shot them after they shot and killed his dog fyi
Elijah James
>secret police sniper murders a woman with a baby in her arms
>not as bad as you think
if you say so
Lucas Powell
They should of obeyed the police. Trigger warning you liberals, OBAY THE LAW, LISTEN TO THE POLICE, IF YOU DONT LIKE THE LAW VOTE TO CHANGE IT. BlUE LIVES MATTER! m.youtube.com
RESPECT THE TROOPS! m.youtube.com
Zachary Anderson
P.s. Libtards there must be LAW AND ORDER FOR AMERICA! m.youtube.com
Leo Torres
>ask for a source that provides objective proof the FBI started the fire
>just get “huuurrrr bootlicker fug off commie” as a response every time
I’m heavily inclined to side with the government out of spite at this point.
Owen Cruz
They are just pro pedophilia cop hating liberals.
Zachary James
red flags gonna cost blue lives bootlickers