So if I made a double barrel sawn-off shotgun the same length as the Shockwave with the same grip would it be in the same category as the shockwave?
So if I made a double barrel sawn-off shotgun the same length as the Shockwave with the same grip would it be in the...
Kayden Bell
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Aaron Moore
No
Adrian Gutierrez
Logic would say yes but you would have to ask the actual ATF because going off logic in this country is ironically illogical
Evan Barnes
It would have to have never been constructed as a shotgun, so you would have to build one on a virgin receiver, and idk if you can buy those. I guess you could if you manufactured your own.
Dylan Rogers
So you're saying that this retard dream has hope?
Carson Ross
Double barrel slamfire smoothbore 12ga pipe pistol, yo.
Blake Martin
Yes. It would be considered a "firearm" but only if it hadnt been fitted with a full long gun stock that has the sole intent of being shouldered.
Ryan Smith
To find a "Firearm" classified break-open double-barrel, it would need to have an OAL >26" and have been manufactured without a stock and listed on its 4473 as a "firearm" rather than a "shotgun". A break-open shotgun with an OAL>26" might actually have barrels longer than 18", since the receiver is so much shorter.
Cut the stock off, cut the barrel to >18", and yeah it'd probably be pretty close to the length of a Shockwave with a 14" barrel.
Christopher Sanchez
This guy has a point. There might be no point because of the short receiver. If it's shorter than the shockwave with shotgun legal barrels, then there would be no reason to jump through the legal hurdles when you could just buy and 18" coach gun and replace the stock with a birds head or pistol grip.
Jace Bailey
yep just set my baikal SXS that i cut down to 18.5 down next to a shockwave and it would totally work as long as you cut the grip kinda like the model 1897 in pic related to stretch the OAL a bit
Matthew Wright
Weld a bayonet to it and problem fucking solved my dude.
Jaxon Cruz
You don't need that loophole, just keep the OAL legal and the barrel will be about 19-20", depending how you cut the grip. Pic related.
That, or if you don't want the stock looking weird, just get a 20" barrel to start with.
Blake Parker
No. It would be an SBS. To qualify as a "firearm" it would have to of been made without a stock and classified as such when first created at the factory. Same idea as the ATFs "once a rifle, always a rifle" thing.
Joshua Ramirez
If the barrel is >18" then there's no OAL restriction at all.
Caleb Morales
Wrong.
26 U.S. Code §5845(a):
>The term “firearm” means
>(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
>(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length
>...
Bentley Sanders
>less than 18"
> If the barrel is >18"
PROTIP: ">" means "greater than" smart guy.
Dylan Murphy
>then there's no OAL restriction at all.
>has an overall length of less than 26 inches
In case you're literally retarded, allow me to point out that that's an OAL restriction.
Julian White
I'm literally looking at a Stoeger Coach gun and a Mossberg Shockwave right now.
There's no way to have an ergonomic grip on the Stoeger and an 18" barrel than doesn't leave it >26". It's a moot point.
Bentley Long
Buy this instead
Leo Reyes
You misunderstood
I'm not shopping for those guns.
I'm looking at my guns that I own.
I'm not OP
Charles Morales
Just go this route.
Lucas Howard
Came here to post this. For some reason it always disappears off my hard drive
Carter Flores
So fucking ugly.
Shockwaves have two purposes:
>Look cool
>Identical ballistic performance to an 18.5" stocked M500 while being a full foot shorter, meaning much much more maneuverable, packable/carryable, and (theoretically Mr ATF) concealable.
Putting a brace on one fucks up BOTH of these.
Cameron Cook
>arbitrarily long ass and relatively easy to shoot shotguns have valid uses
>super short shotguns that are arbitrarily difficult to shoot have valid uses
>A shotgun of middling length that's easy to shoot has no uses
Wut? do you think SBSs are useless too?
Brody Bennett
PROTIP: the ATF considers the maximum "length of pull" (trigger to end of stock or brace) for a pistol brace to be 13.5". If it's longer than that then they consider it a buttstock.
The ATF would probably consider the gun you just posted to this EXTREMELY monitored website to be a short-barreled shotgun.
Owen Ortiz
If you can have a shotgun with a 14" barrel and a stock that DOESN'T look like shit then sure, that's cool. Taking 4" off the muzzle is going to make for a more maneuverable weapon.
Doesn't change the fact that braced shockwaves look like complete dogshit and as points out is not even a legal configuration in the first place.
Gavin Richardson
>If you can have a shotgun with a 14" barrel and a stock that DOESN'T look like shit then sure
Some people's primary concern when it comes to firearms is usefulness, not how pretty of a fashion accessory they are. A shorter shotgun is a better shotgun for defensive purposes, particularly if it isn't arbitrarily harder to shoot, like a factory configuration shockwave is.
Justin Sanders
The ATF got smacked the fuck down in court using that retarded argument. You don't remember that ugly ass "Blackbeard" rifle?
Parker Torres
You should read up on that case my friend.
They measured the OAL wrong. The 13.5" rule stands.
Git gud loser.
Jordan Ross
>Git gud loser
>and care about how a firearm looks so much that you act like it doesn't have any real use if you don't like its aesthetic, like me
Ill, pass. Not everybody is a walking, talking, bag of illogical contradictions that exists solely to justify their own tisms about aesthetics.
Colton Brooks
I have no issue running full-power loads through my Shockwave with birdshead grip and prefer the better maneuverability the lack of a stock or brace provides.
As a bonus, my gun doesn't look like complete shit, either. And assuming is your gun, I haven't created an unregistered SBS and posted it on a website monitored by LEOs like a retard.
Asher Reyes
The length of pull on the braced Shockwave above is 13". Relax, kids. You can even buy them that way.
Brandon Harris
Considering the "LOP" on my braced pistol with the exact same SOB brace in this configuration is 13" and the setup pictured in is clearly significantly longer, I'm skeptical.
You do you but I'd get my tape measure out before I posted that shit anywhere if I were you.
Jack Richardson
Yeah, I already took it off for now. Working on an original 500 Police walnut corncob for it to match the walnut AR grip pictured.
Once I get that all done, I'll go back to that configuration. Right now I'm just shooting it stock.
Lotta fun, ain't they? Here's a current pic, along with the $20 M249 SAW barrel bag. It's nice for when you go shooting or tinkering with it at the table because it's got a built in Gun rug!
Bentley Edwards
no because if it was the same oal, the shorter receiver on the double barrel means you can make a 26" gun that still has 18" barrels, so provided you dont turn it in to an sbs by going under 18, its still just a shotgun
Charles Cooper
Ok, did a little measuring, and I realized in the previous pic I didn't have the brace forced all the way down on the buffer tube.
I mocked this up to show you that once assembled, it will be well under the required 13½" length of pull. I even measured from the front of the trigger, so I could probably gain another ¼"-½" when measured accurately.
Chill, my doods. I got this.
Joshua Lopez
Big Think question here
If you manufactured a sub-18 inch shotgun on a virgin receiver and permanently mounted it under the barrel of an AR-15 pistol with an arm brace so that OAL >26.5 inches, would the shotgun still be considered a firearm? Would the AR-15 maintain its categorization as a pistol?
Andrew Perry
Hey Kjaskaar
Joseph Adams
Not me, just my pic.
Stays non-NFA.
Jonathan Baker
My understanding is that the answers are yes and yes.
Brandon Price
Done! We all good now? 13½" LOP, on the nose.
Look at the difference between wood color. The walnut Police corncob is so dark compared to the new AR walnut grip! No finish on either. (I sanded down a small section of the forend, and it's just as dark). Gotta do some test staining to get them close.
Adam Nelson
So, OP. Sorry I hijacked.
1. Start with virgin receiver that has never had a stock installed, therefore it was never a shotgun.
2. Create your firearm with an overall length of 26" or more.
3. Make your grip and barrel lengths anything you want, provided you keep the 26" length.
You cannot start with what you already have.
Jackson Miller
Refer to You have to measure it as a straight line to the rearmost point. Not at an angle. I'd ALSO give yourself AT LEAST 1/4" of wiggle room.
Sorry if I'm bothering you, I'm trying to keep you out of jail.
Ryder Collins
Yup, understood. And thanks for the concern. As you can see, though, I didn't measure from the fingerpad of the trigger. It's actually about ¼" ahead of that, so it's good.
OP, please update if you find any manufacturer that sells a side-by-side double action/barrels combo. I now want one you asshole. Thanks a friggin LOT!
Mason Wright
If it passes at an angle it passes straight.
Not that that rule will ever hold water anyway, literally no one knew it existed until that court case because they made it up.
Caleb Moore
Why stop at two?
Jason Baker
Ahh sorry man. How's the nugchucks coming along?
Matthew Carter
Just waiting on the stamp. Cut/crown is all she needs now.
James Anderson
LOVE IT! Except for that ugly tumor on the grip.
Nice little boomstick. Yours? How'd you make it?
Carson Campbell
Can't wait to see it in action.
Irishfag here anyway and I was wondering; what's the process of making stuff like that? As in do you tell the ATF beforehand that you're making it or is it made then the application/ stamp is sent?
Either way keep up the cool shit.
Ryder Brooks
Chiappa triple threat, that's straight factory. It has a full stock that you can remove if you feel like it, that tumor is the joint where it attaches.
Anthony Cook
Gotta have affirmative permission and paperwork before you even attempt to make anything NFA, chopping a rifle or shotgun barrel before you have the stamp in hand is a 10 year minimum prison sentence big bombad no no.
Camden Murphy
Whew fuck, thanks for explaining anyway man.
Try not to have your doggos shot in the meantime.
Xavier Lewis
while we are on the topic is it legal to saw off a shotgun at all? if barrel length is 18 inches and oal length is 26 inches??
Samuel Lewis
NOYCE!