CCW class

that's only reliable insofar as hitting something one or twice at random. If you miss 14 of your 15 shots, which would happen nearly 50% of the time, that's not good shooting.

It's not hard to kill someone shooting wildly, but it's damn hard to actually hit your mark reliably without practice.

>that's not good shooting

If it's good enough to live it's good shooting. There are no second place winners.

>failing to get most of your rounds on the paper after 2 hours of classroom time on shooting technique
You now have a concrete experience of why you can't learn to swim without jumping in some water.

>If it's good enough to live it's good shooting. There are no second place winners.
So much wrong with this statement
>get hit, don't die: don't really lose if the condition is only to live
>takes fifteen rounds to hit someone, other guy hits every shot "good shooting, jamal"

You can argue the exact criteria that makes a shooter "good" but on the street there's only one criteria and that's success rate. Anyone who goes to the range at least once a month and practices the basics is already in the top 15-20% of all gun owners as far as effort expended on gitting gud. If you've taken a single professional training class and done a few matches of any type you can move yourself into the top 10% lol.

Then what the fuck is your point?

>It's easy, why can they barely do it?
>Urban youths can barely do it. See? It's easy!

The fact that a functional retard with no training and improperly maintained equipment has an 80$ chance to score hits, usually one handed, sometimes against moving targets makes a breddy good case for it not being too hard.

>good enough to probably seriously wound an unarmed dindu at extremely close range over the course of 3-4 seconds
Some people are concerned with lawful and effective self defense, not showing their homeboys that they're hardcore.

No shit asshole are you fucking thick or trolling I can never tell. What I'm trying to convey is that you don't need to spend $10K on pro training to have the skills to effectively defend yourself. By using the example of the hapless dindu who can succeed I am trying to assert that a modicum of dedication and practice will place you well above adequacy.

But that's completely wrong. The urban youth success rate is probably more like 10% at best. I grew up in bad neighborhood and several times watched cholos empty a full mag into a group at close range and hit nobody at all. When they do hit someone, it's usually pure random chance.

>im just showing how easy it is to do X with an example of how easy it is for people to do Y in a totally different situation
You're literally retarded. One dindu magdumping another dindu and probably getting one hit on him =/= lawfully and responsibly defending yourself. Saying its easy to do the former is a fucking non argument about the ease of doing the latter.

Anyone quoting numbers is talking out there ass. The point is that untrained monkeys manage to kill each other every day. If you practice AT ALL you are ahead of the game compared to the vast majority of gun owners.

I imagine it's kind of cool to be so stupid you can't tell how stupid you are. All that confidence in the face of a bewildering array of shit you can't possibly understand.

The flip side to this is anyone can get got. You can be top of your class tacticool operator with decades under your belt, do everything right, and still die. My favorite example is the "gun guy" involved in the Miami shootout that trained for years waiting for his day and when it came he lost his glasses and was a total combat ineffective. Years down the drain for want of a $.50 strap.

Sounds like your instructor was full of shit.

>numbers must be strictly quantitatively derived and cannot be used to convey a qualitative impression
Perhaps you should tone down the tism a little.

>class of stoned out 21 year olds, fat old guys,

More interesting question; why would these people suddenly have an urge to go the ccw road

There's a shit wind a blowin' and everyone with a working nose can smell it.

>not training to magdump
Its like you guys want to get killed by that methed out thug

>having to be 21 to get a ccw
lel got mine at 19

>7ish yards in 2-3 seconds
Count this out. 1 one-thousand, 2 one-thousand, 3 one-thousand. Now imagine some human turd is charging you with a knife from 7 yards. You're going to get sashimi'ed if this is the level you train to. In fact anyone getting the drop on you within 7 yards is going to end very badly.

In a thread a while back some competition user was saying that top pros can do a draw, presentation and 2 shots in a little over 2 seconds. He said what the top end was but I can't remember exactly. Like was said earlier...you can do everything right and still die.

No he’s laughing at fatties in a CC class, idiot. Pay attention.

last class i went to was professionally done and like 80% of the class were women

All the classroom time in the world isn't going to make anyone shoot well. The one and only way to do that is to practice shooting.

related question, is the CC class at the gun show a bad idea?

Actually, nigger, I’m a statistician. My calculation that a nigger with a 10% accuracy rate who is emptying a fifteen round magazine randomly will in fact have a 79 and change % chance of hitting the target at least once.

Test it for yourself, nigger.
stattrek.com/online-calculator/binomial.aspx

I'm sure your mother is very proud of you user. Doesn't change my argument that you don't need expensive instruction from pro trainers to have a good chance of success at employing a handgun effectively.

Did anyone watch the Bob Stasch vid? It's really quite interesting it's him getting interviewed by Massad Ayoob.

From a belt holster I can draw and get a headshot at 5 yards in just over 7/10ths of a second. From appendix with a cover garment it's about half a second longer. That's with about 2hrs of shooting and 1hr of dry fire a month for 5 months, never touched a gun before.

Wasn't he the one who made the shot that ushered in 10mm?

Your story is almost identical to my CHL class 4 years ago. Old ass cop was the instructor. A woman couldn't load or aim her gun at all. Another old dude had malfunctions every other round.

Your expectations are retarded, and I don’t think it’s reasonable to criticize anyone’s literal first time with a handgun

If you read a PowerPoint on how to ride a motorcycle, can I expect you to be great at it the first time you get on a bike? Or are you gonna need to practice?

Regardless though CCW classes are stupid

No matter how stupid, a CCW is one if the best de defenses in court, god forbid you have to shoot someone

I signed up for a class after I bought a gun and before I started shooting, but it got cancelled and was too impatient to sign up for another one. I figured I understood enough just from watching youtube and just went to the range on my own. There was zero other people at the handgun range when I first went and started shooting. For some reason I thought there would be a worker there watching for safety or something.

Without a doubt, it’s why I got mine. I just mean the instructor was an old fudd, open carried a 1911 for “stopping power”, all the stereotypes you can think of.

Also at the end of the class we answered the test together, with him telling us the answer to write down. It was multiple choice with 3 of the answers being literal Facebook tier memes to make people laugh and guarantee a pass even if he wasn’t giving the answers out.

The only useful portion I can see for people who aren’t experienced with guns is the shooting fundamentals/range time. They should make the course like 100-200 rounds and cut out the bullshit.

I didn't even take the damn test. I did a one on one with my instructor that knew that I already knew how to shoot a damn handgun at 7 yards and what really called for deadly force.
The man even carried literally 7 guns. Two 1911s on each side of the torso, one in the small of the back, a .38 special on the ankle, and other guns god knows where but I would not try anything on this motherfucker for how experienced he is and how many guns he carries on a given basis with clearance for every facility in the United States. As fake and gay as it sounds, the man really trusted in 1911s and did convince me in what a trustworthy 1911 is as well. Fantastic instructor, truly believed in the 2A despite the "fuddy" love for the 1911, and a man I will always respect no matter what.
God bless you, CCW instructor

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