Wargames: America fails to win against Russia and China

Like almost any average Western soldier who, on average, has little training on surviving without logistical support. Because at the end of the day, if things get so bad they cannot be supported, they are expendable.

Russians and Chinese are not exempt from that rule either.

About as long as any other.

Let me fix your thread OP.
See here for a serious article on Ochmanek & Work's study and presentation:
breakingdefense.com/2019/03/us-gets-its-ass-handed-to-it-in-wargames-heres-a-24-billion-fix/

Basically what Ochmanek said:
>Buy more standoff missiles
(everyone knows we need more of these in case we get in a full-scale war, but the problem is nobody wants to pay for them)
>More ABMs and missiles to feed them
(same problem as above)
>More electronic warfare equipment
>More hardened command/control/communications gear to resist the enemy's EW
(they argued that the navy and air force don't focus enough on this)
>Invest more in AI technologies
(they have to say this to sound smart and up-to-date)

And what Work said:
>"cutting a carrier and two amphibious ships over the forthcoming 2020-2024 budget “seems right to me.”"
>He argued the US Army has way too many brigade combat teams — tanks and infantry — and way too little missile defense to protect them.
>And he bemoaned reports the US Air Force will retire the B-1 bomber, one of its few long-range strike aircraft:
>"If the Air Force doesn’t want them, he said, give them to the Navy, revive the old VPB “Patrol Bomber” squadrons, and load them with Long-Range Anti-Ship Missiles to sink the Chinese navy."
>Pentagon leaders should challenge the armed services to solve very hard, very specific problems, Work said: Sink 350 Chinese navy and coast guard vessels in the first 72 hours of a war, or destroy 2,400 Russian armored vehicles.
>Whoever has the best solution gets the most money.

They suggested that their proposals could be implemented for $24 billion, split about evenly between the army, marines, and air force.

Did you even read the article you linked? They basically think RAND is full of shit.

As well as any other country? You seem to be confused in how the US structures its forces.

Where a Russian or Chinese force might have a maintenance company at the battalion level, the US places a smaller group at the company level.

Where the Russians or Chinese might have a full company of SPGs supporting a few battalions to form a brigade, the US splits the same number between each battalion.

You can't just "remove support assets" from the US military, because they are innately more ingrained into the structure than anyone else. Where a Russian SPG company might have to split its attention between several battalions, each US battalion would have its own dedicated to it, with systems in place to shift them around as the situation demands it.

Oh it's another
>hey let's pretend that half the US military just magically disappears one night and the very next night [the entire rest of the world] teleports into the middle of Times Square, look how shit the US military is!

>remove air support and logistical support
How? Why? They aren't going to just magically disappear the second the chinks decide they wanna start shit.

Yes, this is the whole point of these excercises - to figure out how enemy could gain advantage over you, and prepare for it. You can't prepare if the excercise is set in such way you always win.

Excercises where you curbstomp enemy is useful for training procedures, coordianation and communication. They have their important place, because they teach you to deal with your own problems before you can learn to deal with enemy. But after you do that, you need to learn how to actually defeat enemy. And the only way to do that is to have your simulated enemy tough, strong and pulling no punches.

You don't put actual chinese or russian against you, you get the idealised, supercharged vision of them . You have no idea about any of their internal issues, so to be on the safe side, you assume they have none. When there's doubt, you always assume the worst option. Their weapons will always work, their equipment will perform to spec, their leadership will be smart, their soldiers brave and cunning.

You prepare for enemy not following your script. Otherwise you will end like japs before midway. (they had wargame simulation before battle, where instead of following their expectations, junior officer playing as burgers actually put their carriers in ambush, causingIJN players three sunk flaptops and massive embarassment. They promptly declared that US would never do that IRL, so thats not really a problem. Guess what happened IRL?)

Also the incoming...

>"If the U.S. model is so great why doesn't anyone else do it."

Because it took us over 80 years of trial and error to perfect. Russia and China have only been stable enough to even think sbout copying it for ~20 years.

>If the U.S. model is so great why doesn't anyone else do it."
You mean like the Chinks, Tinks, Worst Koreans, Brits, Leafs, Krauts, Kiwis, Aussies, Dutch, Frogs, Tacos, huehues, Pastas, Waffles, and Kuwaitis have been doing for the last 25+ years?

>Balkans
If Russia fails to reach the Balkans and draw a line through Poland in the first two months or so then there is no war anyway. Russian forces would be hideously outnumbered and outflanked on the open European plains.

>Taiwan
Literally an island next to China

So this whole study is talking about China and Russia being able to establish an initial front line for a war that isn’t on their own soil.

Neither nation would be able to resist in a prolonged conflict and the counteroffensive would be heartbreaking.

This study may actually be true but it covers offensives not prolonged conflicts. Basically asking if China and Russia could even get into a stance or would they straight get punched in the mouth. This sets a very low strategic bar for China and Russia and an extremely high bar for NATO.

>Asiatimes
>Asia
sounds legit source pal

SJWs faggots, trannys, women's lib,
nigs, and beans ruining the US military.

If the Chinks or Russians
nuked California, New York, and Massachusetts.
Then proceed to vaccuum bomb every nig ghetto and spic barrio in the US.

They be doing American and the rest of the world a total favor.

Surrender to China, because they are the White man's savior.

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/thread
this is the reality of all war games
I was part of Nellis Red Flag exercises for years

>"If the U.S. model is so great why doesn't anyone else do it."

Nobody else has the budget to do it the way we do. Anybody who tries, goes broke.

Here. This is for you.

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>remove two of the most important factors in a war
Why not just remove your head from your body, gook?

>Everyone in thread talking about it as though it's a full world war to the end they're "losing"

Did anyone actually READ the report? It's basically denoting how Russia could rapidly push into the Baltics, which is literally a 100km drive for them, compared to the thousands that NATO would need to cover to prevent that.

So duh, Russia could rush in there.

The reason they don't? They'd get fucking curbstomped the moment NATO actually arrived in force to deal with it.

And that they haven't done it is proof NATO works. They're fucking terrified of trying.

this.

Why is america even defending itself?

China is the savior of the world.

look at this stupid mutt. If they fly 300 nukes into Yellowstone, what do you think will happen?

Nothing? Followed by China ceasing to exist

when Yellowstone erupt North America ceases to exist

also
>imagine somehow China only has 300 nukes

>bugmen actually believe that

The first thing I thought when I saw that headline was "huh, someone must be trying to sell the feds some new toys".

I don't need to believe the truth. Now come to think of it, all these chest-thumping tards are probably flyovers who think nukes only target big cities. But if nukes target Yellowstone, the flyoevers would be killed first!!! Brilliant!

Taiwan is a buffer between China and the rest of Asia. We sure as hell will protect that shit

You do realize that if Yellowstone goes we all essentially die right? The amount of pumice alone thrown into the atmosphere would pretty much ensure we all died from either glass/concrete in our lungs or all the crops dying.

Don’t forget the Bugmen would starve

You do realize that the nukes do not have enough energy to do any thing right?

Yeah since nuking major areas of economic capital and large population groups will benefit the US. Do you even realize that the military is comprised of a large amount of minorities?

it's clear mutts, your time is up

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If Yellowstone is destroyed does just North America cease to exist or the whole world?

A-are you from the same farm as the "my scenario stands" chink?

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Id still be rather willing fight a war against Russia and China if thats what they wanted, as long as they remove the niggers and Liberals!

If the Yellowstone caldera were to go off, humans die. Earth would survive, we won't. It would be on the scale of a VEI-8 which has yet to happen during humans time on earth.

The US would 100% lose if the African Americans and liberals were nuked. You don't understand that they all pay large amounts of taxes and generate most of the national wealth which funds the military. Without that money the military will shrivel and die without Russia or China needing to fire a shot. Don't tell me that the South and Midwest can supply enough troops and maintain a $705b military budget

Yeah I heard that everywhere as far as Texas would be covered in 6ft of ash

I'm 6'5 so it won't affect me

Lanklets with be the only survivors. Extinction of manlets

The RAND Corp, which gets more revenues as the US spends more money on defense, designs a war scenario in which the US's current budget is insufficient and determines they need to spend more money in order to ensure military superiority over potential adversaries.

Color me shocked...

Isn't the whole point of an exercise to "fail" in the scenario? Wasn't it once stated that the whole point of training is that you are put in totally fucked scenarios where the enemy is constantly throwing a curve ball at you and you have to figure out how to take it with what little you have? I mean it sounds better than giving your troops easy scenarios that look fascinating in propaganda just so you can make yourself appear formidable even though you're not.

I miss that guy so badly. That was the most fun I’ve ever had on Jow Forums

You're fuckong retarded. It shows you've never served (if you did, that's fucking sad) dont know shit about war games.

In Chinese war games the US/Opfor wins every time.

no, it's a buffer between china and the pacific ocean. noone gives a shit about taiwan.

/leadship is bad subject

Wargames are just tools for a political agenda.

For example, Red Flag.
Red Flag where the F-35 defeats F-16 is made in a controlled environment where the F-35 is made to shine. It's to pander to the politicians to give the MIC more money. Put it in an unstable scenario against superior planes such as JF-17 and too many variables will pop up.

It is the same with this simulation, the objective was to show that the MIC needs more money.

It's like an American Army General saying, "The F-35 can handily beat whatever China fields, but we need to have more budget because China can defeat the F-35 easily."

insect actually thinks those slant eyed could pull off smuggling nuclear weapons into the us. insect also things that you can just set off a volcano by bombing it.

>>>>> Superior planes such as JF-17
>>>This is what bugmen actually believe

oh I am sure nothing will happen when 300 nukes detonate near Yellowstone. Nothing at all ;)

If like 70 nukes detonate ANYWHERE on Earth, the Earth is rendered uninhabitable, so Yellowstone will be the least of our problems if we detonate 300 you fuckin imbecile.

Americans lie about their capabilities every day. Every one knows this already. They're all bark but no bite.

"America lies, China tells the truth!" "What is Tiananmen square? Nothing happened there, my government told me!"

It's like you are saying that it is true that America lies. Thank you.

How fucking actually braindead are you? Ofc the American government lies, every damn government lies, but America lies a hell of a lot less than China's government, because China's government has to try and convince the world that it's aging land forces, top heavy command structure, and barely functional navy can actually stand up to basically the entire world (i.e NATO)

Nobody knows how much each country lies to the public. Atleast China does not look pathetic doing it unlike America.

came here to say this

Ask for more money like everytime we "lose" a war game.

No China just looks pathetic doing anything.

>American stealth is 0.00000001m2 in all aspect, like a golf ball on radar.
AHAHAHAHAHA Chinks BTFO! Muh stealth!
>American lose to China in Wargames
AHAHAHAHAHA Is all just to get money, don't believe the government.

American hypocrisy, cherry picking on the same plate. Reminds me of those gun grabbing liberals.

>NATO are unable to stop an attack in the Balkans by the Russians
no shit who is gonna stop them there?
greece? they have very capable pilots but naturally they arent enough anyways
turkey probably will side with russia
germany will finish nord stream 2
uk will drink tea

i keep saying that european nato is a clusterfuck they have almost 30 years and counting to do a wide scale nato exercise that involved at least some minor part from ALL the participants..
they have practicly done ZERO exercises regarding EW (they did a small one outside of nato thanks to greece couple of years ago)
airforce coop is a joke since the more north you go the worst english accent you get
i mean have you heard lithouanian or dutch fucking pilots?its like a new yorker trying to understand a texan
their land forces are a joke greece and turkey have so much land forces in that area that 80% of the europe combined
their navy now that is a proper fucking joke too
uk is understaffed
dutch dont exist
the baltics are a joke
france fremm might pose a threat
european subs are a joke maybe not those with AIP systems

if russia manages to elliminate the supply line fast enough this will be the end for usa forces too

Looking how Trump is pushing Venezuela. He would love a war with China.

Please test that, Winnie the Pooh. We'll make Nanking look like a picnic.

LMAO, this thread is full of butthurting amerimutts protecting their shitty military.

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They have failed the simulation because they are losers ^)

This.

You might as well try to crack open a safe with firecrackers moron. There are differences of several orders of magnitude in the energy involved.
Is this bait or are you really this fucking retarded?

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>conclusion is literally need mo money for dem defense programs

I've been a gamer in such simulation. They are basically bullshit that is as far from real world as one can get. All of them have some hidden agenda or political purpose. 99% of time that is convincing someone somewhere to spend money on something.

Not even the Taiwanese?

>what is the SALT exemption?

Actually no, the big liberal areas skimped on their federal taxes for years. Now that they can't do that anymore, business is fleeing New York and California. What they added to the national wealth didn't come from niggers or liberal baristas, it came from industry that can now set up shop more cheaply elsewhere. Don't flatter yourself thinking Californians win wars.

>business is fleeing New York and California

heh, which right wing blog claims that bullshit? In fact the USA is in the middle of a transition phase where those places become more and more important.

>The US and NATO are unable to stop an attack in the Balkans by the Russians
>the United States and its allies are unable to prevent the takeover of Taiwan by China.

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The problem is that such war games are reported incorrectly. The article describes it pretty well.

When Russia goes all out they will be able to conquer some Baltic states whatever... that was the war game was supposed to show.

But the reporting fails to mention that this wouldn't be the end of the war. Like the Soviets didn't give up when the Wehrmacht reached Stalingrad.

And the reality is that Russia can't win a war, they aren't capable of conquering Europe nor being able to damage the USA in any meaningful way.

Unsubtle, Chang.

I don't know what kind of retarded reddit spacing that is, but holy shit you're stupid and wrong. Read OP's article and it actually debunks that exact point. There is literally no way to stop America from sodomizing the Russians.

>shitty

Alright, I'll bite, what country are you from and how many supercarriers does it have?

The Governor of New York was bitching about it and California has been having problems with it for years. It's a well-known fact, who the fuck told you those places are attracting MORE business?

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>It's a well-known fact,

So it isn't true at all.

you miss the entire point i made

NATO is a CLUSTERFUCK that has no real value on a high energy battlefield

You do realize that there were hundreds of nuclear tests throughout the cold war and we're still here, right?

kek
usa 1,054 tests by official count
Soviet Union: 715 tests
United Kingdom: 45 tests
France: 210 tests
China: 45 tests
India: Six underground explosions
Pakistan: Six underground explosions

There is no one who could serious claim that Taiwan can be defended.

Taiwan is only like 100 miles away from China. Every single aircraft in service would be capable of operating over Taiwan.

Not him but there is some truth behind his claims. Boeing recently moved a large factory from WA to I think South Carolina, and there was a defense contractor who offered employees either move to Missouri or get laid off. I'll get the sources in a bit, eating breakfast rn. Business are leaving the west coast but it's at a trickle for now. CA's new minimum wage will probably accelerate this.

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right, because the US have fought so hard before for Taiwan. they never gave a shit about Taiwan, they always prefered mainland china, even at the fucking UN congress

I love this thread

Wait, retiring a carrier early? Isn't the USN currently underequipped? I remember some defense papers mentioning that the USN needed 12 active carriers. What changed?

tell Taiwan to declare independence and see what will happen. The US won't even lift a finger lmao.

I dare your puny "government" to officially declare independence from China.

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>japs before midway. (they had wargame simulation before battle, where instead of following their expectations, junior officer playing as burgers actually put their carriers in ambush, causingIJN players three sunk flaptops and massive embarassment. They promptly declared that US would never do that IRL, so thats not really a problem. Guess what happened IRL?)
Japanese nuclear engineers and inspectors also had some things to say and reccomend about Fukushima, but where ignored and hushed up by their leadership

Guess what happened?

Its the wierdest shit, almost the opposite of what happens in others countries in Asia. Its only replicated in the West....