Would the US be better served with new built F15s and F16s

I like the idea of using F-15s as missile trucks for stealth aircraft.

listen retarded nigga, that's not how air combat work.

What do you mean? The AF has literally said as much.

They are going to use the sensors on the F35 to track and set up fire solutions, and data link the info to the F15x because it can carry more munitions.

No. It makes the most logistical sense to have your fighter force be 95% F-35s and 5% mach 2.5+ interceptors for when they are too low and slow against certain targets.

That’s literally how the newer F-15’s are gonna be used retard

Thing can carry up to 16 AMRAAM's

Attached: Silent Eagle.png (858x501, 599K)

Why can't F-35 do that?

Sexy

I mean, F35-chan can carry up to 14 AMRAAMs, is it really worth it dragging an old and busted frame around for 2 additional missiles?

You know they're new frames. They don't cost as much to service as f35 per flight hour. And f35 "stealth" kinda gets defeated when you put missiles on every hard point.

no.
obviously.

>*ignores the benefit of streamlined logistics*

What specific logistics are you even talking about? The one time cost of delivery? Fueling, arming, maintenance, and repair are going to be easier.

Thank fuck you don't work in logistics.

Good job avoiding the question. Do you avoid work IRL in the same way? That would explain alot.

No, considering the navy and marine corps don't use f15s or f16s. Maybe for the airforce its a good idea but the marine corps is quite enjoying their new f35s.

>"Mobius Squadron intensifies"

Not enough hardpoints. If you wanna take a stealth craft and load up every hardpoint with missiles just take the F-22 since it'll carry way more.

Is a country that only has f-18s really upgrading by buying the f-35a?

America has fucking everything. They have the A10, f16, f15, f18, f22 and F35. Plus drones. The F35 works fine for them because it's meant to be complimented by the f22 or f15.

Hot take: F15 is outdated garbage plen and only poor countries use them.

It's the same price as the F35, but it goes twice as fast. It's much better for intercepting.

Yes - for the following reason.

the F-35 carrying missiles on external hardpoints is no longer stealthy, ruining the "stealth" angle.

the F-35 is so expensive you could pay not only for the F-15s and F-16s to replace the old ones, but also pay for all the flight hours of training that are being not given to pilots right now. The F-15 for example is not going to be defeated anytime soon, and you are better off having a pilot with tons of training in a F-15 then a pilot who has limited training in a F-35 due to both budget issues and the fact the F-35 maintenance issues.

The main good points of the F-35 is for the marines the fact it can replace harriers and the great radar.

Black gloss makes anything sexy and modern.

>35% parts commonality
>"streamlined logistics"

Anyone who thinks the 35 can be replaced with 4th gen fighters is a fool who knows nothing of modern air warfare.

Like Israel who refused to buy the F-35 and is upgrading their fleet with the money instead?

Absolutely not. Shanahan the shill needs to get the hell up outta the SecDef chair and someone who knows what they're doing needs in. There is zero purpose to handing out Boeing more gibs. Maybe if they were able to quickly design a Mach 2+ LO interceptor to suit the AF's needs, but we don't need more F-15s.

Israel bombs sandniggers with shitty IADs and even shittier operators. The US trying to square off with China and Russia. There's no comparison.

No, neither have any stealth capability whatsoever, which means we'd have only the F-22's we have left and no easy way to replace them as they age or encounter accidents. Meanwhile the F-35 is also stealth, newer computer systems, a better radar, etc and will be mass produced for decades to come. Take the positive traits of the F15 and F16 and roll them into a new dedicated combat and interception drone that can fly with F-35s.

Attached: McDonnell-Douglas-F-15C.jpg (960x1270, 290K)

It can carry 12 with external twin racks. That's more than enough.

isnt us ordering new "stealthy" f-15s?

>Drone
Next gen fighter will have advanced auto-pilot, but a pilot will still be needed in case something goes wrong. It's not that unmanned fighters won't exist, but they'll be shitty aerial cannon fodder to give the real planes something to shoot at.

The USAF requested funding for F-15EXs already.

flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-air-force-sees-f-15ex-as-cheap-and-quick-fix-456480/

No. Nobody ever bought the Silent Eagle.

Nobody is suggesting replacing F-35s with F-15s. You're arguing against nothing.

That's literally what the OP is asking.

Well, they need the F-15 as an interceptor because the F-35 just don't have the speed, also as a bombtruck because F-15 can carry more payload

There are a couple of good arguments for the F15x. It's a great interceptor and great for national defense. It's not meant to be a front line fighter.

It also has an existing supply, training, and logistics chain. According to Boeing the aircrews don't even need conversion training.

It also gives the AF air frame diversity. In the if the F-22, or F-35 get grounded for some reason there are still usable airframes around. Not to mention the fact it will keep the F-15 line alive a bit longer.

We also don't know the full details of the contract yet. What we do know is Boeing is offering the jets on an FFP vehicle and the offer was made while in discussion with the AF about rebuilding the existing C-eagle fleet.

My assumption is Boeing is offering the jets at a good price that the AF cannot refuse.

>According to Boeing the aircrews don't even need conversion training
Yeah, that was so true the last time B*eing said it

Obviously. Nothing against soldiers or majority of engineers.... but the Military Industrial Complex is completely corrupt.

It's all about money and power. They literally research how to (((inspire))) and (((motivate))) their (((target audiences))) with BS reasoning for why we need to waste billions of dollars every year.

By the way if anyone describes you as a "labor cost" or a "target audience" you should beware.

You mean like Israel which was the first nation to use the F-35 in wartime operations?

Every country that means something on the international stage has a MIC of some sort. Doesn't mean there isn't room for corruption, but it's important to be able to develop new weapons without relying on others.

Name a better air to air fighter than the f15

F-22

And we have a small, finite amount of F22s. The F22 is great for flying in contested space. The F15 serves great in the Air National Guard role. We are a large country with many different needs for our aircraft. 5th gen planes are great, but they work better when supported by massive amounts of 4th gen planes.

Your comment refutes nothing.

>The F15 serves great in the Air National Guard role
Which is a made-up role that we don't need at all.

>A major power has zero need to enforce its own airspace.

??

How many times has the USAF had to enforce its own space in the last 100 years?

You only think we don’t need it because the f15 is so effective.

I think what he's saying is that we don't need to buy last-gen fighters just because they might be good at intercepting geriatric vodkarat bombers and retards flying cessnas

That’s the fucking point. We haven’t had to defend our airspace, because our airspace is dominated.

The f15 has the best record of any air to air fighter currently flying

Yes? It's also old. The P-51 also had a great record,doesn't mean we should buy them

No

muh dick

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>it’s old
The US is buying new airframes. All of the logistical stuff is already in place.
>p-51
We don’t use p51s because they are obsolete now. F15s can take on any threat presented to them.

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google.com/amp/s/taskandpurpose.com/f15x-air-force-fighter/amp/
>The U.S. Air Force has been secretly organizing a plan to replace its F-15 C/D fleet with brand spanking new F-15X Eagle air superiority fighters, the Drive reported on Wednesday. This move could take the heat off of the service’s handful of F-22 Raptors or make up for F-35 shortcomings — and cushion the expenses involved in operating and maintaining two 5th-generation fighters.

The purpose of the f15x is to be able to haul large amounts of AMRAAMs. A pair of F35s in stealth mode would travel ahead of a pack of F15s. The F35s can get close to enemy fighters, and with its advanced sensor suite and datalink capabilities it would send target info to the F15s. That sets up the F15s to deliver air to air missle from beyond visual range. The F15 isn’t a replacement for the F35 or vice versa. They complement eachother.

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>The US is buying new airframes
The design is old.
>F15s can take on any threat presented to them
No, they can't. They aren't viable in the face of 5th generation aircraft which could proliferate bigfully in the near future.

>the design is old
Still extremly relevant and effective today
>They aren't viable in the face of 5th generation aircraft which could proliferate bigfully in the near future.
Name one aircraft that isn’t the F22 that can take on F15s

>Name one aircraft that isn’t the F22 that can take on F15s
F-35, J-20, J-31, SU-57 if it ever gets finished, EF-2000 & Rafale

>What specific logistics are you even talking about? Fueling, arming, maintenance, and repair are going to be easier.
No.
For every unique airframe design you field, you have to also ship and maintain a parts store necessary to deal with any potential maintenance issue. That means effectively everything in the aircraft but the frame itself. Each additional airframe generally doubles your logistical complexity in terms of cataloging the different parts necessary to maintain your aircraft. You also often require specialized tools for each aircraft, meaning additional work space storage and spares strain on the logistics. Additionally, each airframe will need personnel specifically trained to maintain that aircraft. Each of these specialized personnel are next to useless for anything but the most general work on another airframe. The number of personnel required to maintain a high operation rate increases at a rate greater than 1 for each additional airframe type you are expected to maintain. So now you have to spend extra money and logistics capacity training and maintaining additional personnel.
Do you get how retarded your statement is now?

>f35
Stopped reading there. The f35 as an air superiority platform is a joke

>the F-35 carrying missiles on external hardpoints is no longer stealthy, ruining the "stealth" angle.
Not how stealth works.
>the F-35 is so expensive you could pay not only for the F-15s and F-16s to replace the old ones, but also pay for all the flight hours of training that are being not given to pilots right now. The F-15 for example is not going to be defeated anytime soon, and you are better off having a pilot with tons of training in a F-15 then a pilot who has limited training in a F-35 due to both budget issues and the fact the F-35 maintenance issues.
You are now aware that the single most expensive component in a combat aircraft is the pilot. The US easily expends more than double the cost of the aircraft in training the pilot in its use.

One of F-15x's bullet points is it has a passive active warning survivability system that can detect stealth aircraft.

>The f35 as an air superiority platform is a joke
It has the best sensor suite of any fighter aircraft, is stealthy (Some estimates have it stealthier than the F-22), has incredibly good data-linking and sensor fusion abilities, respectable kinematic performance, and carries its weapons internally (6x AMRAAM and 2 sidewinders). You're fucking retarded.

The absolute state of lightning whores.

>>the F-35 carrying missiles on external hardpoints is no longer stealthy, ruining the "stealth" angle.
>Not how stealth works.
Then why have missile compartments at all.

>it has the best sensor suite of any fighter aircraft, is stealthy (Some estimates have it stealthier than the F-22), has incredibly good data-linking and sensor fusion abilities, respectable kinematic performance, and carries its weapons internally (6x AMRAAM and 2 sidewinders). You're fucking retarded.
It can only carry 4 AMRAAMs internally and 0 sidewinders. Having good sensors doesn’t make up for the fact that it’s slow and has bad maneuverability.

Yes it does

>can only carry 4 AMRAAMs internally and 0 sidewinders
Not with the block 4 update.
>Having good sensors doesn’t make up for the fact that it’s slow and has bad maneuverability
It isn't really slow considering you have to carry all of those 16 AMRAAMs externally in the F-15x (Not sure why you'd need that many in the first place) causing a lot of drag. Ditto with maneuverability. Not sure why you're going to bat for a company who's only successful venture into the fighter business was buying a failing corporation that produced some of the biggest blunders of the 90's. They've failed to keep up in the military aircraft market and are trying to hawk a 50 year old aircraft with new paint to the USAF because their guy is warming the SecDef's seat.

Had the f15 ever been shot down by an enemy aircraft? I know the F15 has over 100 air to air kills to date

No , it has a spotless combat record.

That’s incredible. I couldn’t imagine racking up over 100 air to air kills without a single loss.

Absolutely, I'd buy 200 F15X. Cut order of F35 to like 800 overall mainly buy F35B/C

Start designing a 5.5 plane to replace F22

enhanced F135 engine twin
baked in stealth coatings
enhanced radar
range equal or greater than F14
weapons bay large amount enough for 4x wwvram and 6x bvraam missiles
long rang infrared seeker eots
etc

> And f35 "stealth" kinda gets defeated when you put missiles on every hard point.
RCS will still be hugely reduced compared to a non LO airframe

There are already some fuzzy logic programs that can fight on even footing with human pilots while the humans are flying simulations of more advanced planes while the drones are denied simulated BVR weapons entirely. Granted the human pilot will always be there to make a decision but drones could easily act as missile buses and escorts to the human pilot without needing direct oversight. You could tell them what to do and they'll soon be smart enough to figure everything else out on their own.

On a cost to cost basis, yeah, they are. They've got a 50/50 shot against a J-20 while costing half the price, ergo meaning that twice as many F-15s can be in the air than J-20s, covering more space, slanting things in their favor so long as the logistics can keep up with supporting that many craft.

Given the current invasion of the US mainland, the US would be better served with more A-10s than with any of these planes.
All of these planes are fucking useless as is the Air Force. These fucks haven't done shit to defend the US.

>On a cost to cost basis, yeah, they are. They've got a 50/50 shot against a J-20 while costing half the price
1. The J-20 is supposed to cost around 50-60 million USD per unit. I can't find an exact source for the F-15X's cost, but it seems to be around 100M per.
2. I'm not sure about 50/50 shot, and that isn't how we fight anyways.
>slanting things in their favor so long as the logistics can keep up with supporting that many craft
They don't. Our pilots(and other personnel) are extremely expensive.

That's absolutely true. But the idea of an F35 scout with the smallest RCS possible backed by F15X "missile trucks" sounds pretty good.

Try 24 AMRAAMs for the F-15X

>carry more than two dozen air-to-air missiles

military.com/dodbuzz/2018/07/19/boeing-pitches-f-15x-fighter-concept-us-air-force-report.html

Furthermore, for those who don't understand - this matters, and it matters a lot.

The F-15 can fly a lot higher and faster than the F-35, which means that it will be able to launch waves of missiles with different guidance types (IR, active radar, home-on-radar) and start turning away from the F-35 before the F-35 is even in range to launch its 4 AIM-120s (not sure if they even can get the extended range version to fit in the bay).

> but muh stealth

It emits, it gets shot at.

Right and to expand on this if said enemy SAM/air defense network is taken down quickly enough the F-15Xs could come in instantly for a turkey shoot.

There's little chance of the F-15 actually reaching those theoretical maximums when it's kitted out with however many missiles and the fuel tanks it needs to get any sort of decent range.

A fighter will generally drop fuel tanks on contact.

What kind of autism does it take to shill for a 50-year old Cold War tech developed during the Vietnam War?

So after the stealth fighter has already seen it, fired, and turned around. Very "useful".