>The US has wargamed cyber and electronic warfare in field exercises, Work said, but the simulated enemy forces tend to shut down US networks so effectively that nothing works and nobody else gets any training done. “Whenever we have an exercise and the red force really destroys our command and control, we stop the exercise,” Work said, instead of trying to figure out how to keep fighting when your command post gives you nothing but blank screens and radio static.
>The Chinese call this “system destruction warfare,” Work said: They plan to “attack the American battle network at all levels, relentlessly, and they practice it all the time.”
So what the fuck are we gonna do when we actually have to fight the chinks in real war, when testing their own tactics on our forces reveals how effective they are crippling command, control and communications?
what the fuck are wargames and how can you possibly suck at them? are they like, combat simulations? how do you even simulate that?
Caleb Anderson
Wargames and combat simulations have been a thing since standing armies have existed, where have you been?
Carter Hernandez
Don't worry, we'll never even have to fight the chinks. In a few decades of continued demographic change, our population will have an average IQ on par with sub-Saharan Africa. We'll be another irrelevant third world shithole, unable to project any power or threaten China in the slightest.
Distribute and decentralize operational level and below C2 in order to make it much harder to disrupt our forces. That or actually take cybersecurity seriously for once.
Jaxon Nguyen
It's not just cybersecurity and C2, apparently we really fucking suck at having a way for IBCT to shoot down drones and enemy air assets harassing them
Anti-air Stryker is the proposed plug in that gap it seems
The point of wargaming is to lose though. To point out weaknesses in doctrine, strategy, tactics, equipment etc. Only shitty third-world dictatorships play winning scenarios to please their dictators and feed their propaganda machine.
Parker Watson
but how do you simulate that? you cant possibly simulate it. do you have people shoot at soldiers? also why did we "get our ass handed to us?" why does china and russia participate in these games? what????
Matthew Lewis
>enemy forces tend to shut down US networks so effectively that nothing works and nobody else gets any training done. “Whenever we have an exercise and the red force really destroys our command and control, we stop the exercise,"
Well we have some really big weaknesses then.
Cameron Sanders
These "wargames" are just convenient covers for real wars, wake up sheeple, pull the wool out from under your eyes
You do realize that means RAND autowins the red team if certain things happen.
Alexander Green
for all our otherwise superior military force, we lag behind here hardcore, and it's very worrying.
Luis Rodriguez
It is understandable to lose against China. China leads in cyber warfare and economic superiority.
Jackson Ortiz
It's sort of refreshing actually that the Chinese seem to be pretty realistic and competent about their military strategy. Instead of the usual third world military dickwaving incompetence of thinking they'll just beat us with their proud chinese warrior spirit and assuming all their domestic equipment must naturally be superior to inferior American equipment, they actually make a realistic assessment of their capabilities and try to determine how best to negate American fire superiority. I remember hearing once how the Chinese held some large-scale exercise against a theoretical US invasion and they simulated that 90% of their mechanized forces would be annihilated by US air power before even entering combat. Turning to unconventional strategies like electronic warfare and disruption of enemy command and control at least shows they have the right idea. Though of course it doesn't matter in the end because if they ever presented enough of an obstacle the USAF would just bomb them into oblivion.
if I remember they kept changing the rules so the US military wouldn't lose, and they still lost.
"You kill me in the first day and I sit there for the next 13 days doing nothing, or you put me back to life and you get 13 more days' worth of experiment out of me. Which is a better way to do it?"
there is a fundamental problem with the US military, we keep switching between a conventional and unconventional war mindset. the turn over is very slow, and we can't seem to re-learn our lessons fast enough.
Isaac Diaz
Unfortunate. It reminds me a lot of the anecdote in a book about Midway, maybe it was Shattered Sword, about how Yamamoto kept losing a bunch of aircraft carriers but said the results weren't realistic and thus ignored them.
Obviously we know how that worked out.
Chase Murphy
They use high tech laser tag equipment, basically. Before that they just fired blanks and had referees declare people and equipment "dead".
James Morales
I think it's a reasonable question to ask about the details of what exactly constitutes a war game.
Stop masking your own ignorance with empty implications.
Colton Baker
implessive
Nathaniel Stewart
most war games are broken down into three parts: >strategic command, played by the generals, >operation command, played by the high ranking officers. >tactical command, played by the low ranking officers and enlisted.
in a war game you normally have high ranking diplomats and generals playing referee.
the generals will make moves and motions on a map maneuvering as they would in war following certain scripted actions based on political policy of said, "faction." so a Demo-Rep would not allow certain actions so they are forbidden from play. this part is very hypothetical and is analogous to a "total war" video game.
next is operations, this is the meat of the game, given the resources of the above, they are able to move forces and this is where a lot of the fuckery in the games happen, sic 2002 games. the closest to this is Hearts of Iron IV and Ruse
last is tactical, based on the above certain engagements occur, the ground forces will play "laser tag," or "paint ball" and referees will walk the "battle field." this is very analogous to paintball with extra steps. when not in a war game this is a normal field exercise but with a dynamic opponent.
not all three parts exist in a given war game.
Chase Fisher
games are for niggers
Cameron King
A better question: How would you wargame with Roman Empire era forces? Napoleonic era forces? Basically anything before simunitions and laser tag.
Brandon Ward
Look up Kriegspiel. That's pretty much how things were done until trains and such came along. Then you had actual armies in the field doing pretend stuff. It was an issue with Kaiser Bill because he didn't like to lose when he would take honorary marshal roles in Imperial German wargames.
Robert Thomas
>F35 wins in a controlled environment like red flag Muh stealth not overpriced plane! Clearly shows American superiority!
>America loses in a controlled environment like wargames Lol controlled environment. It doesn't count.
Sebastian Jackson
>hurr the US can't into cyberwar do you fags have a single fact to back that up? I only graduated high school 5 years ago and we took part in a USAF/Northrop Grumman sponsored netsec competition against schools from all over the country with the winners getting a chance to go up against the USAF's red team for shits n giggles.
Landon Carter
Because America is the only country that understands the point of wargames. We lose on purpose, every time, so we can make ourselves even more untouchable. Everyone else uses them to flagwave because it's the closest they'll come to actual conflict.
Logan Campbell
>lose wargame >for the low low price of X billion dollars we can fix all our problems! Wow its like every single other fucking wargame ever.
Wyatt Smith
>changing the rules so the US military wouldn't lose You mean Van Ripler repeatedly broke the laws of physics to win and quit when they told him he couldn't do that.
Eli Green
If you're going to give a meme answer like "broke the laws of physics" can you at least give an example?
Jose Smith
>hurr let's use bike messengers so we can be ultra sneaky breeki! >let's also have those bike messengers travel and deliver said messages instantaneously, as if traveling at FTL speeds! >what do you mean I'm fucking up the wargame?! you're either underrage or new, and I'm not even the guy you're replying to
Kevin Barnes
He used Chinese quantum radars that are outside of American physics. Americans are narrow minded.
Jeremiah Cruz
DESU even this makes us look better than we are. Army command is too dense to understand the importance of network security and too sluggish to make the changes necessary to plug the gaps. Army itself sucks way too much as a place to work for to attract and retain the kind of talent that would actually be able to implement and maintain a half-decent hardened network.
t. did some cyberwarfare stuff in the Army a few years ago
Jace Sanchez
We deliberately suck in war games because we don't want to flex, we use them as training opportunities for less experienced forces rather than to test our absolute potential, we keep that a secret because it is better to be underestimated when real combat happens. I'm sure our internal war games are more competitive.
Jose Myers
*swarms your CSG with anti-ship missile laden RHIBs* nothin personnel
Nathaniel Jackson
And you think the biggest spender on military is trying and still losing? Bro we lose to not show our true power level and if you think we would show everything our military is capable of? You want to buy this bridge?
Chinese Quantum Plasma Shielded FTL capable bike messengers and firing AShM from RHIBs that couldn't carry them.
Luke Miller
>things that rely on sophisticated base infrastructure like runways and fuel tanks A paved surface and a large metal can are sophisticated. Tells you everything you need to know about the contractors hired to plan, judge and run the wargames.
Mason Barnes
>bike messengers traveling across oceans >bike messengers traveling faster than the speed of light >sticking Silkworm missile launchers (10+ tons) on "rowboats, dinghies, and other small watercraft too small to be noticed on radar" >swarming with 10,000+ coordinated small boats from across the entire coastline without the use of any electronic communications >these magic mystical rowboats also move at 60kn btw and are blue-water capable >oh and these Silkworm missiles are now beyond-hypersonic shipkillers (mach 20+) that make Grantis look like bottle rockets, somehow >WUT YOU MEAN THIS INVALID REEE
Grayson Hernandez
>what is PSP planking
Nolan Foster
>drones Valid >enemy air assets I'll take both "nobody has any" and "4 of the 5 largest air forces in the world" for 500, Alex (the Texas Air National Guard has both a more modern and larger air force than Germany)
Carter Clark
so you're saying the texas ang has 5 operational aircraft? hee hee
Eli Gray
Six! And they're not relics from the 60s!
In all seriousness, >USAF >US Navy >USMC Air Wing >Air National Guard >Russia total combined air assets >Texas ANG >China total combined air assets There's the 6 biggest, most modern air forces in the world.
Dylan Smith
>The US has wargamed cyber and electronic warfare in field exercises, Work said, but the simulated enemy forces tend to shut down US networks so effectively that nothing works and nobody else gets any training done. “Whenever we have an exercise and the red force really destroys our command and control, we stop the exercise,” Work said, instead of trying to figure out how to keep fighting when your command post gives you nothing but blank screens and radio static.
If he's referring to the US's performance in Locked Shields 2016 then he's being completely disingenuous in portraying this as a US tendency.
The US's first time participating in Locked Shields was 2016 (ie the only time it participated while Robert Work was in office) and it got clobbered by countries that had been participating for a decade. It finished 19th out of 19.
>congress give us money >general x give general y more dudes/equipent >china we suck so don't train too hard lol >grunts you better start training harder
it's multitier bait. The thing to remember is that yes, the US really does suck (anyone in the military can tell you that). But wars are usually won by sucking less than your opponents, not actually being good at your job.
Lincoln Turner
skirmishes are won by tactics battles are won with strategy wars are won by logistics
Aiden Jenkins
why need airbases when we can just psp planking bro xD
Ayden Lopez
China isn't the one flooding our country with retards from the 3rd world... a certain group of people are doing it. but I'll be labelled Jow Forums because of the Demographics of said group has a large number of (((them))) in it.
Nicholas Hughes
Have you included the 4000 aircraft stored at AMARG in your calculations?
it would take at least 2 days to get those in the air or about how long it takes russia to get 1 plane in the air haha
Leo Adams
You do know the wargame is just simulating idea's of what chinese tactics would be. Its not actual chinese tactics, and there is no one actually carrying out even the simulated tactics against a real network. While the fighter sims, are fighters flying against each other getting real target locks.
>Hey Chang, let's launch one of our five nuclear weapons at the Americans so they can't bomb us! >Great idea, Chong! Say what are all those thousands of things falling from the sky and why is half our country now glass?
Liam Evans
Nice, it's like America has 4000 reserve pilots in store too, oh wait they are all gays.
We rest ourselves against very rigorous standards. They dont. Look at PLA exercises some time. It's all facade. They do backflips and jump through fiery hoops. Literally
Nolan Richardson
turn the sound on for the chink propaganda they literally go PING PONG CHING CHANG it's hilarious
Samuel Garcia
>They do backflips and jump through fiery hoops. Literally Which shows superb hand to eye coordination, something Americans can't do because they would rather want to have surgery and become more gay.
How exactly do you simulate how two EW systems will interact?
These are the most intensely secret, unpredictable class of assets and modern ew / network warfare hasn't ever actually happened so there's no precedent. Frankly, I don't think this has any value at all.
Caleb Rivera
wait no one ever shot down an f15?
Robert Allen
Hand Stands powers up upper body strength, something Americans don't want to develop because muscles are not good when they become women.
Jason Garcia
nope have fun getting your chink ass knocked into the next room by superior American
Cameron Campbell
Hand stands, like all body weight exercises, primarily produce lean muscle and work most towards reducing mass. Someone capable of easily doing a handstand will easily do a handstand but wont easily produce more force than their own body weight.
Tl;dr American McBighuge is going to throw you across the room while you struggle to break his 350 pounds of compressive strength
Caleb Jackson
awww bitchboy left
Carson Rivera
Now I'm from Texas and I find it really hard to believe we have more aircraft than all of China.
Jeremiah Powell
Or makes it easier to carry superior and lighter Chinese gear and can move easier compared to American who is wheezing and complaining that he should be in surgery clinic instead of war.
Juan Nguyen
Well, those special groups of people are a special kind of retarded. >muh Samson nukes which will be easily taken down mid-flight 100 years from now
Ayden Miller
it's ok to be inferior, chink. eat your rice ball and go make me an iphone
Henry Reyes
These claims always float around on Jow Forums yet there is never a source. You're just repeating memes. Of course, no one is able to explain how such a thing can even happen. Jow Forums has an extremely warped image of how a wargame work must work in order to make such a scenario work.
In the first place, in a wargame, a commander of a force does not "move the pieces" himself. The actualization of his orders is carried out by an entirely separate team. Realistically, any attempt to prod the "white room" into giving him lightspeed motorcycles or slikworm dinghies would just be met with a resounding "lol no". If the white room were to allow such feats, you would have to wonder what the fuck they were thinking, and it's basically unthinkable that they would. You can claim that a computerized system was in place, but if you try to implement something that a computer system is not able to do, it simply won't do it, not hack itself and return nonsense.
Aaron Parker
>americuns suck at war Not a news.
Aiden Butler
This.
James Brown
>kills soviet supplied and trained iraq in 3 days lols
>Can't win the war and have to pull out the troops but can't do even this Kek
William Garcia
CPLA is well aware of its short comings, indeed the shortcomings of every military on earth when it comes to force/force engagements of the US. The USA has built up such an all encompassing "system of system" that the only way to actually defeat that system is to utilize something that is posited in the book "Chao Xian Zhan" or "Unrestricted Warfare" by authors and senior colonels in CPLA Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui known as "the principle of addition" and advocates for multi-fronted attacks utilizing a combination of direct combat with electronic, diplomatic, cyber, terrorist, proxy, economic, political, and propaganda tools to overload, deceive, and exhaust the US “system of systems”. The great irony of the immense power of the USA has at its disposal is that US has a set of guidelines it sets [UN] and must adhere to these rules or else suffering disastrous effect on soft power (a loss of int'l trust in regards to use of force, when countries around the world figure the USA into its defense rationales it's under the assumption the USA Mil is benevolent and would not turn its full power on them because wtf are they going to do in retaliation?) so it's unable to so overtly apply this principle of "unrestricted warfare" as the Chinese would be able to, being that in the match up of USA vs China, China is an underdog. They get to fuck with the rules and exploit loopholes, they are beholden to none of them.
Ayden Adams
>Because America is the only country that understands the point of wargames. We lose on purpose, every time, so we can make ourselves even more untouchable. Imagine believing such obvious bullshit.
Jeremiah Long
I guess he is paid to post this. But we shall never underestimate the stupidness of amerimutt.
Brandon Perez
Isn't it so insecure that the arm might as well read "someone with an arm"?
Caleb Torres
What?
Isaac Bell
The US power grid.
Cooper Lee
Idk actually.
Matthew Hall
be mad. we don't care if you trigger the full power of the US, you die. let me count how many countries have attacked the CONUS hmmmm ummmm it's ok, other countries have stuff holland has kasse, russia has cabbage but trying to compete with the US just makes us lol
Josiah Collins
godammit don't make my generator start, I'll have to go to the garage, get one of the gas cans, and fill it up
