The threat of Russia to Europe is lifting, how long until american protection isn't needed?

Russia is clearing declining. With this decline they will not be able to threaten Europe due to their continued low military budget (in respect of total EU defence spending). When do you reckon their ability to carve up Europe will be over? Or have they lost the ability already?

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It's long gone, if they went all out they could get through Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltics but would be stopped in Poland. This scenario is without US help.

>It's long gone, if they went all out they could get through Russia, Russia and Russia but would be stopped in Russia.
What?

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only neoCONS push the MUH RUSSIA shit because it makes them money and it distracts the country from an ACTUAL INVASION that's taking place right now.
Neocons want to destroy white america... and they've succeeded.

>being naive enough to think that russia wouldn't eagerly gobble up the baltics and eastern europe if nato disappeared one day

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And I wouldn’t care at all

The Russians in reality haven't had the ability to touch any part of Europe since 1986. They're acutely aware of this and slowly working at getting it back though, and euros are typically behaving like a faggoty little brother who naively thinks the reason he never gets his ass kicked on the playground is because people take him seriously, and not because of the threat of reprisal from big brother America. Looking at you, Sweden.

the West will always use muh Red Menace as a Boogey Man propaganda tool

seethe more yevgeny

unfortunate this desu

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> - t. mouth breathing retard

>clearing declining
gonna need a citation there chief. Lets say you're absolutely correct and Russia is going to go through what it did in the late 1800's/ early 1900's and is going to suffer a collective fucking stroke. It wouldn't matter because Russia never had the ability to take over Europe (and hold it) just like Germany/Britain/ect never did. The rest of Europe (and other asian countries, such as china) will simply lend aid to bring the crumbling clusterfuck back to a semi-functional state because its in their best financial interests to maintain trade. The current world economy relies on the distinct "us VS them but we're friends... for now...." and proxy conflict.

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why do you think all the states are slowly (and some quickly) turning blue? you think this is because russians sent some mean tweets and """interfered""" with the election?

Russia has gotten stronger in the last twenty years, and ever since the fall of the union they have fiercely defended their influence over the post-soviet space wherever they could. Moldova, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine. You can say they are a regional power at best, and not a threat to your favorite countries, but the fact of the matter is that they aspire to be more than that. They want to be a world power, I would hesitate turning my back on them because they are not a threat right now.

>why do you think all the states are slowly (and some quickly) turning blue?
not him but I'd say its the economy sliding down a 90 degree slope

Chechnya: 1994
Georgia: 2008
Ukraine: 2014

>inb4 no such thing, rightful Russian clay

Chechnyans, Georgians, and Ukranians are not Russian, as Russians themselves will happily tell you for hours.

>inb4 muh Donbass

The only reason there is even a significant Russian minority in Donbass is because of Holodomor under Communism depopulating the region and the subsequent Communist policy of sending hordes of Russian migrants ("colonists") to occupy the land, not unlike what George Soros is trying to do today with America.

>not him but I'd say its the economy sliding down a 90 degree slope
Democrats explain.

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Current Russia is a regional power that pretends to be a world power, to the point of manufacturing lots of propaganda for foreign consumption. Russia is trying very hard to pretend they're the USSR at their apex in the 50s and 60s, but they don't really have the power to combat anything besides weaksauce armies near them. Internally, the country is in near-shambles despite all of the petrolbux in the country and is a far cry from the USSR eras they're pretending they are (which wasn't great either mind). They don't have the support for communism the USSR in the 30s, 40s, and 50s was able to draw on for foreign support.


The real danger from Russia isn't their,equipment or what have you, but them buying their own propaganda too much and overplaying their hand. If they try that, they're going to get bitchslapped hard.

>The threat of Russia to Europe is lifting
Absolutely not. Almost all European armies are hollowed-out paper tigers with little to no core combat capability that serve as sphere-of-influence maintainers or a showroom demo team for their nation's defense industry.

Never forget that Russia invaded Poland as well

They'd string it out over 40 years, but yeah, they'd gobble it up

NATO provides that, so long as any bold moves leaves them fighting a massive coalition they won’t push anything beyond bullying neighbors who look like they are turning west. A bad situation would be if there was no NATO and they thought they had an opportunity to take back a piece of their sphere of influence, only to drag us into a war anyway. Discouragement is preferable to having to go in and put them down, and don’t forget their is a bigger problem in the east that would just love to see it’s two competitors fight.

>The threat of Russia to Europe is lifting, how long until american protection isn't needed?

1992. The US presence hasn’t really been needed in Europe since the Soviet Empire collapsed. But at this point, we have an empire just to have one - because we’d feel bad about ourselves if we weren’t one anymore.

>Chechnya: 1994
>Georgia: 2008
>Ukraine: 2014

None of which is a threat to America or any of our damn business.

.t Ivan

>our

15 potato juice coupons will be delivered to you by Пoчтaльoн Пeчкин as right after we send your neighbor to gulag.

>Being naive enough to think that Russia has the resources to hold any of that territory.

>But at this point, we have an empire just to have one - because we’d feel bad about ourselves if we weren’t one anymore.
Hardly. The west as the culture and set of operating principles lives or dies on US hegemony. The day America decides to stop being the world police is the day Chinese or Russian interests step up to fill the vacuum, and you dont want those assholes deciding your countries fate. Central Europeans and South East Asians understand (and they love America in those places), smug Euros dont.
t.would be living in a Chinese vassal if America didn't own the waves.

They're probably give the Baltics the Little Green Men treatment after making up BS about those countries bullying their Russian minorities since Russia directly borders two of them. This would also let them integrate the Kaliningrad Oblast back into Russia proper, which is something they've been wanting for a while. I don't think they could try the same with Ukraine since it would require a lot of manpower to hold down a country larger than all of the Baltic states where at least 50% of the population hates your guts and would eagerly resist you rolling tanks in.

The rest of Eastern and Central Europe (including Ukraine) would be a long-term version of how the USSR turned those regions into puppet states right after WWII by installing or supporting pro-Russian people in the government. This would take a lot longer than after WWII since they don't have the luxury of a very destructive war decimating the existing governments. Their takeover of those regions would capstone with a Warsaw Pact V2 that secretly gives Russia the right to invade in case the countries start drifting away from Russia in the future.

>The west as the culture and set of operating principles lives or dies on US hegemony
Bullshit.
The Euros absolutely have the ability to defend themselves from any attempted Russian interference. They'd just have to stop pussying about and spending all their time sucking off Arab invaders.

Unless, of course, America not owning the waves destroys the ability of China to import oil or export goods.

Nature abhors a vacuum, but PLAN isn't the only regional navy, and absent the US, they can't protect their own shipping sufficiently enough to keep their house-of-cards economy afloat.

Yeah no. Eastern europe still isn't Vatnik extermination ready. The Poles need about another 5 years to settle the economy required and another 10 after that to establish the military infrastructure to make sure russia never tries to fuck them again. That's why they want american bases and will pay for it. It's a stop-gap solution multitudes cheaper than an overnight overhaul of their military (if it was possible), that will cover them until they can stand on their own as a primary partner of NATO.

As far as europe as a whole not needing the U.S.? Just like with any measure of protection, when you don't need it is when you need it most, as when you find out you actually need it...well it's already too late. We all learned that lesson the hard way generations past. Any millions, across generations paid dearly for it.

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Losing a guaranteed ocean protector would certainly cause damage to China's plans short term, but long-term, China would step up to protect their interests. Like said, it would not be a pretty sight for anyone near them, but they would have the ability to keep pirates at bay.

I say "would" because China is corrupt enough that I could see it cutting deals with pirate gangs that would let China get some stuff they want from other countries from pirate raids in exchange for payoffs or gear from China.

Even though I don't buy the whole Russian boogeyman narrative, I think they'll cut the bullshit more or less once Spymaster Pootis is out of power.

Your argument defeats itself. If europe has it's head to far up it's own collective asses to protect itself from a cultural invasion by a backwards religious cult...then it has no hope against the high speed logistical mobile warfare of modern conventional armies.

remember this is the same Europe who have politicians currently dismantling the U.K. and French nuclear systems under the argument that their ownership of nukes increases the risk of warfare with other nation states, even though the entirety of the cold war, along with the paki-poo incident this year has proven that the chaotic, and in-capable prediction of the line between limited (aka tactical) nuclear deployments and mutual assured destruction was so blurred and so readily surpassable that neither NATO or the Warsaw Pact could find a readable solution and never enacted any war plans they had. This was WITH both sides understanding that their economic policies could never last in peace with the other.

Western Europe is fucked.

Western Europe is only doing this because they believe that things will continue to be peaceful and that they have no need for a large nuke arsenal when daddy US will take care of them and there is no threat of WWIII. If the US were to start terminally declining even tomorrow, Western Europe would start rearming pretty fast as a precaution against Russia getting antsy and making moves. Hippy kumbaya rhetoric about weapons and war goes way real fast when you main protector is no longer able to do his job, no matter how coddled and peaceful your society currently is.

Without the US, China has no market to export into. Their demographics are nearing economic collapse to begin with, and they sustain employment levels without the US both buying their stuff and protecting their cargo ships.

At that point, they'd be more concerned about a civil war than empire-building.

What? Who in Britain and France wants to scrap their deterrence AND is in government? Some Greens fruitloop doesn't matter.

Not updating Trident is one thing, but scrapping the missiles is another.

Who knows, on one hand Putin is so influential he will basically get to choose his successor. On the other hand the Russian economy and political system is so deeply tied to personal relationships and dependency on Putin that the whole system could collapse without him.

Never forget that poland started WW2 when it invaded Czechoslovakia.