>the Russian Army and Navy are dissatisfied with Pantsir complex and looking on absolute new air defense systems. For the army, the Pantsir air defense system proved too heavy, complex and not effective to protect against most of the potential threats. To protect the ships in the coastal zone and in harbors, the naval version of Pantsir has also become too expensive and not very effective.
they're replacing it with the upgraded shima pantsir
Bentley White
But all the vatnik said it is a good and important part of the layered russian air defense and only performs bad because it never was used by russians in combat.
Asher Jenkins
>According to anonymous and, hence, unconfirmed sources in the Russian Ministry of Defense, the Russian Army and Navy are dissatisfied with the Pantsir air defense system and, consequently, are looking for new systems.
Impressive anonymous sources. I think that Syrians manning the system did nothing wrong for taking a cigarette break in the middle of an Israeli strike.
But if you know the history of the system, it won't come as a surprise. It failed Army tests and was upgraded and exported to Saudi Arabia, where it got enough money to get the attention of the Air Force who needed a temporary unit to guard ICBM TELs until Morfey is ready. I don't know why Army caved in and bought them too. And the Navy is iffy since they haven't even tested the unit, it is still being built.
I'd probably guess it's either an anonymous source from f-16.net or some guy lobbying for a different system, like Morfey or that Army SOSNA-R carrier.
David Morris
>from f-16.net Who the fuck even cares or talks about that borad on Jow Forums beside a selected small group of assblasted vatniks?
Connor Russell
That's embarrassing, someone tell the Russians sperging out about "muh IADS" in the Su-57 thread.
Alexander Jackson
People assblasted by vatniks, I guess?
David Wood
Do it yourself, faggot.
Benjamin Price
Cope harder, Russian fanboy. I guess it was monkey model russians that got raped by an American airstike too.
Jack Cook
No. Are you confusing complaining about the board with the complaining about people complaing about the board?
IADS problems are a known issue among Russians. Most prefer not to know about it because muh national humiliations ala Chernobyl.
William Lewis
Considering the fact that they lack the ability to face the US in the air, if they don’t have confidence in their SAM systems, where does that leave Russian planners? Look strong and hope no one actually tests their resolve?
Robert Ramirez
>Russia Looks to Replace "Troubled" Pantsir How will shills spin this when even Russia wants to get rid of that POS?
Jaxson Morgan
Claim it’s fake news. Then, when they eventually start funding a Pantsir replacement program, they’ll act convinced that it’s completely unrelated. When pressed, they’ll claim that SAMs are irrelevant anyway when you have nukes, which Russia has a lot of.
Camden Wright
>Look strong and hope no one actually tests their resolve? That's literally what their propaganda revolves around. Appearing strong so that other don't dare take them on in any shape or form.
Jacob King
I kinda wish there’d be some sort of scuffle that’d force Russia to stop posturing and start fighting. I like to think that’d shut up most Vatniks, but I honestly don’t know how many are just people who enjoy pretending to be retarded on the internet.
Grayson Brown
>Russia Looks to Replace "Troubled" Pantsir
There is nothing wrong with the Pantsir. The Arab crews just forgot to take the mountain parking break off.
Carter Reyes
>start funding a Pantsir replacement program >Russia funding anything Good joke.
Thomas Fisher
What's up with all this yeah posting?
Justin Kelly
What about TOR-M2 ?
Josiah Miller
I mean, whoever owns the Pantsir factory has to find a way to make the payments on his Spanish villa somehow..
Blake Young
>defence-blog.com >According to sources in the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity >According to sources in the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity >According to sources in the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity >According to sources in the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity >According to sources in the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity Ok, yid.
I mean, given Pantsir’s pretty awful performance in Syria, is it really that surprising?
Camden Moore
>Pantsir’s pretty awful performance in Syria Yid, pls.
Brody Roberts
Impressive anonymous sources. I think that Syrians manning the system did nothing wrong for taking a cigarette break in the middle of an Israeli strike. I think that Israeli strikes are so predictable as a result that if some of them did happen on this particular day I don't think that any Syrian intelligence agency would have come forward to say that their people were hit, but they could have done so.
They said that a few thousand were killed at the Tishreen hospital in Damascus' al Qusair, but this hospital had seen 2,000 fatalities since January, and they claim only a few hundred survived the Israeli attack. So that puts an incredible number of civilians (including women) in Tishreen's hospital during that 15 minute period. So this strikes with Israeli precision on a hospital that has seen 2,000 casualties is completely beyond my ability to say anything.
The third is the report that Israeli attacks struck Israeli medical equipment in Khan al-Assal, which was completely destroyed by our attack on that hospital. We destroyed the last of the bulldozers, which were driving around behind Israeli military vehicles. The bulldozers were
Julian Cooper
Well it did shoot down 127 of 98 tomahawks fired, so it might just be a bit overpowered
Probably has something to do with the amount of attacking projectiles Remember when mutts tried to pose a mercedes crane as a destroyed pantsir?
Charles Scott
Russian "electronics"
Lucas Garcia
They borrowed Chinese quantum superposition technology to intercept missiles fired in alternate realities as well, increasing the killcount above the total number fired.
Caleb Rodriguez
i think that's normal,the missiles are supposed to fly like that and initially over correct their turns. the real question is why they're missing the israeli bombs and that's probably either jamming the communication between the launcher and missile (missile dosnt have it's own guidance) or they just cant maintain a proper lock because their radar is shit
Connor Wilson
Yeah
Michael Gray
>their radar is shit That's the thing that confuses me. If Russia has deep problems with their electronics (and by extension, radar) sector, I'm not sure how redesigning the Pantsir will make it better.
Hunter Walker
Most likely on of these: a. Engaging other targets (jet/missile). b. Israeli EW. c. "Russian engineering".
David Phillips
Another paper tiger thread? Another paper tiger thread.
Elijah Phillips
Their radar is fine, most likely best in the world, it's just there was not enough rockets
Grayson Howard
You should see the vatniks seething on the 2 Su-57 threads that are already up. One guy keeps going off on tangents about nuclear missiles when pressed as too why Russia is too poor to afford modern fighters.
Aiden Myers
Why mutts are seething that Russia is the only country that can beat their sorry asses?
Anthony Rivera
Its the wrong weapon for a high intensity conflict. Like a capital ship on wheels, all the goodies are in one place waiting to be blown up together. Crated VLS missiles remote-linked to radar drones, disposable antenna arrays connected with instant-proximity-release armored electronics boxes and redundant power supplies.
Jackson Hill
Could be all three?
Adrian Thompson
Obviously the crew were smoking and cigarette ash fell into the controls.
Noah Gonzalez
It almost certainly is.
Aaron Miller
>best radar in the world >from Russia kek >just not enough rockets The first missile seems to detonate on the right and completely fails to hit its target.
Ayden Young
Probably radar is note even on and missiles are launched in "free fly/balistic" mode. Funnily enough, this is exactly what russians manuals for SAM they export are telling the operators to do - if you can't get lock on target just spam missiles without guidance in general direction of the attacking aircraft, hoping to push it into evasive manouvers and breakoff the attack run. This tactics was somehow viable in 60-70s when SAM sites were attacked by jets carrying iron bombs or short range rockets/missiles; of course today is pure idiocy. But ruskies dont bother to update their manuals, since their know that for arabs officers passing knowledge to lower ranks is unthinkable, because this will reduce their sense of power and superiority over disposable motley crew of conscripted peasants. So, rabs still cling to that Vietnam era routines that was beaten into them with a stick after 6-Day War
Carter Wilson
>And completely failed How many missiles israelis used? Like 40+ or so?
Aiden Brown
So you're saying it was aiming at all of those missiles behind the ones that were the main threat to the system? You do realize your point assumes that the system is incapable of prioritizing threats?
Dylan Allen
I mean, SEAD is almost always cheaper than losing an air defense platform.
Angel Gomez
>the system is incapable of prioritizing threats That almost goes without saying.
Thomas Powell
that's why i think it's probably jamming the frequencies of communication with the missile + swarming them with bombs. we think the pansir is missing the 2 bombs heading for it (the one taking the video and the one you see in the video that hits the pansir first) but it might be hitting the bombs behind those two. israel has a base filled with high power antennas in almost direct line of sight on damascus.
If IAF F-16s can do that with jamming, imagine how effective F-35s with SDBs will be against air defense sites.
Kevin Wilson
the bombs i think they used (there's pics of wreckage of the wings of some of these bombs that were intercepted) spice is actually better then sdb for this shit, and cheaper IIRC (it's just strapped on to existing bombs that are dirt cheap). also from my familiarity with the IAF (i served as a tech) im 90% sure that it was 69th squadron that did that operation. the planes dont really matter because they were in line of sight of syrian air defense only for a few seconds (lobbing missiles over the mountain) so f15 bombers make perfect sense since they can carry a fuckton of bombs. i do know that 140th sq bombed in syria dozens of times already so maybe it was a mix of f15s and f35s and f16s with the f35\f16 being escorts for the bombers and armed with air to air loadouts. i'ts more or less how they did operation orchard without the f35s, f15 bombers bombing the syrian nuclear reactor with f16 escorts.
Its the spook-network in Syria that really impresses me. IDF seems to know pretty much every detail of what goes on alobg that border, and runs surgical strikes whenever enough eggs appear in the same basket
Luis Perez
So pantsir requires full complex + some kind of jamming protection to actually work? I'd imagine it would be hard for Syrians to use for sure
Jacob Morris
IAF seems to be pretty much the world's best when it comes to SEAD.
Oliver Jackson
the spice bomb wreckage in syria. and the mk83 bomb it's guiding. we have multiple sayeret + mossad (mostly mossad technical division) teams in syria,lebanon and gaza pretty much 24/7. our government got really pissed when trump disclosed one of our operations against isis (who planned to make laptop bombs and bring down planes) dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5111023/Secret-Israeli-commando-operation-against-ISIS.html another raid that got recently fucked in gaza. a hamas checkpoint suspected a van that was filled with sayeret matkal commandos and mossad techs, they got out of the van, killed the men manning a checkpoint and had to run for the border while being chased by every hamas man in khan yunis with heavy israeli air support. it's the closest thing i've seen to one those call of duty missions where you have to run away to extraction i've seen IRL. youtube.com/watch?v=I4-0qm_vviQ
also best drone airforce in the world, they pretty much invented use of modern drones in warfare and were the first to use them (idf drone units fighting in the south african border war in 1981)
Spice is the Israeli equivalent of JDAM and Paveway kits.
Ryan Gutierrez
>Remember when mutts tried to pose a mercedes crane as a destroyed pantsir? Actually no. Contradicting to vatniks, they dont do that kinda stuff on constant repeat.
Levi Fisher
How can something like Phalanx hit a single mortar by spamming 20mm rounds in the sky, yet Pantsir can't hit something the size of a winged 1000lb bomb using guns and missiles?
Blake Stewart
The Pantsu's biggest weakness is that the Russkies tried to do VSHORAD on the cheap. Its missiles are exclusively command-guided, because the Russkies were unwilling to spend $150.000 on a single kaboom. Problem is, if something's jamming the command post, the missiles are no better than WW2 Fliegerfaust. The redesign will likely incorporate self-guided missiles with datalinking and three-way telemetry (missile-missile-command post) for extra jamming resistance. Though it's hard to say whether this will stop them from getting pwned by ELTA jammers.
