>China’s rise as a naval power goes well beyond its growing number of ships and submarines but the People’s Liberation Army Navy growing capability to operate jointly with the Chinese air force and rocket corps, a maritime intelligence expert said Tuesday.
>Speaking at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C., James Fanell, a retired Navy captain, said, “we need to respect that” growth in capability as much as China’s increasing numbers of modern warships, including carriers and ballistic missile submarines.
>“I’m not surprised they’re becoming more and more like us,” Fanell said, down to China’s new emphasis on building a robust noncommissioned officer corps to improve quality afloat.
>Fanell is considered a controversial figure in maritime security discussions on China and the Pacific, because of his belief the U.S. Navy should not engage in high-level military-to-military meetings. In his experience as U.S. Pacific Fleet intelligence officer, Fanell said, Chinese officers “would ask a thousand questions, and we’d give them a thousand answers. We’d ask one question and get nothing back.”
>However, he warns China’s capability must be respected. In short, “they are very, very competent,” and have progressed a long way in exercising command and control. The Chinese Navy also strengthened their skills in targeting and improving intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance thanks to an active satellite-launching program at a rate far outpacing the United States’ satellite launching program.
>Beijing’s operations in the South China Sea and now their extended submarine patrols into the western India Ocean are examples of increased expertise in operations over great distances, he said.
>“Where will they next operate,” Fanell asked rhetorically. The answer lays in where Beijing is dispatching its oceanographic fleet. They are currently mapping the Atlantic Ocean’s floor, he said.
>But when it comes down to numbers and tonnage, Fanell said China “is determined to be first” in naval power by 2049, the centennial of the Chinese Communist takeover of the mainland. Their goal is to achieve “sea dominance,” the ability to bully or intimidate any nation so that they can impose their will in a crisis, he said.
>With its modern shipyards, skilled workers and low costs, China is capable of producing two nuclear attack submarines and one ballistic missile submarine annually. The yards producing surface combatants have the same production efficiency, Fanell said. Beijing’s naval building program for all combatants “may be greater than originally estimated.”
That'd be a terrible move on China's part, but who knows? Authoritarian regimes have a tendency to do stupid shit.
Cooper Stewart
implessive
William Jones
I wish a nigga would
Jace Hill
such as starting trade wars? oh wait!
Protip: China's regime is literally one of the most sane and risk-averse leaderships in the world.
Mason Collins
you dont understand the chinese mindset at all
Robert White
He's not paid to understand, just to spread propaganda.
Christopher Peterson
China has no issues fucking with Tibet and other neighboring countries including the poos. Pretty sure they'll doing something stupid on an IJN level.
Ryan Mitchell
Which is based on rationality above all else.
Which war did China wage that wasnt a last resort after a thousand warnings to the other side that were ignored because they werent taken seriously?
Zachary Myers
Nam war. China came in Vietnam after the US left the country. Which also explains why Vietnam is still a commie shit hole.
Gabriel White
Retaking Tibet is like the Union retaking the South after the Confederacy lost. This is entirely legitimate to retake one's own country after a civil war and no accepting any seperatism. Or do you want to suggest that Ukraine is illegally attacking the two so-called "independent People's Republics" in their eastern border?
And India has literally attacked first, even after multiple warnings by the Chinese premier. Go read some history.
Leo Collins
You don’t understand much of anything
Xavier Roberts
But Vietnam repulsed the invasion very well and embarrassed the shit out of China. Vietnam's doing quite well at the moment, and is no big fan of China.
Brayden Richardson
Vietnam was warned and wasnt suddenly attacked by China. They occupied Cambodia, a Chinese ally, and signed a mutual defense treaty with the USSR aimed against China.
It was a Chinese aggression, but not one that is unprovoked or sudden in any shape or form.
So, no Pearl Harbor yet again.
Julian Wood
Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Syria has repelled the US invasion and is doing well at the moment, and is no big fan of the USA.
Matthew Ortiz
>Syria That reference manages to be less relevant to a discussion on Chinese military doctrine than the most recent example of China's rather poor combat record.
Angel Fisher
Syria wasn't invaded by the US, though. That's nowhere near an approximation.
And it's completely relevant to what you just stated. You claimed that because of the Sino-Vietnamese War, Vietnam was still a communist shithole. Vietnam suffered no serious longterm reprecussions from the war, nor is it still a communist shithole.
Ryan Wood
Quite poor of a combat record when all Chinese wars ends with considerable territorial gains for the Chinese, such as SCS islands and border-territories in Vietnam, India etc.
Chase Green
>Vietnam suffered no serious longterm reprecussions from the war, nor is it still a communist shithole.
Ahem...
And yes, Vietnam is considerably poorer than China for a reason. The war with China has economically wrecked them to a considerable degree. In the end, it was Vietnam who sued for peace.
Probably a treacherous spy that failed his mission in obtaining classified documents as well.
Evan Thompson
>Becomes Chinese Puppet.
How did you come to this conclusion? He was all abotu containing China, even denying them any sort of military exchanges:
>Fanell is considered a controversial figure in maritime security discussions on China and the Pacific, because of his belief the U.S. Navy should not engage in high-level military-to-military meetings. In his experience as U.S. Pacific Fleet intelligence officer, Fanell said, Chinese officers “would ask a thousand questions, and we’d give them a thousand answers. We’d ask one question and get nothing back.”
OHHH NOOO SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING """NICE"""" ABOUT CHINA! HE A PUPPET!
Thomas James
Has nothing to do with combat, it has more to do with China not giving a fuck to execute your entire population if they resist and everyone knowing.
By your logic half the middle east should be US territory by now.
Adam Richardson
Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. Reality of the situation is that Vietnam is pretty nice and not really communist at all. And no shit China's wealthier than them. They're many times their size. That's not a point at all.
Jordan Sanders
>Reality of the situation is that Vietnam is pretty nice and not really communist at all.
Except also no freedom of press, human rights violations, State Owned Enterprises dominating and ruled by a Communist Party?
Lincoln Miller
I just hate China guys. I want to get drafted and commit the dancing of Nan Jing.
>sinking superior Vietnamese ships with little mine-clearers and sub-chasers has nothing to do with combat
look at this mutt and laugh
Kevin Hughes
>china dumps all US bonds >fragile mutt market falls apart like a house of cards in a tornado >mutts gotta pay more taxes and get poorer >country turns into an even bigger shithole >chinks become richer and genetic editing makes them smarter >20 years later USA is below 40% white and niggers are too dumb to operate a carrier group >china nukes the brown abominations in a first strike that doesn't receive any retaliation
>retired officer >Washington think tank >Funded by the Koch foundation
I don't doubt the chinese navy are competent enough, but these MIC astroturfing campaigns really are increadibly bare faced if you are even slightly critical of the information you receive.
>And yes, Vietnam is considerably poorer than China for a reason. The war with China has economically wrecked them to a considerable degree. In the end, it was Vietnam who sued for peace.
The reason that Vietnam is considerably poorer than China is because the Chinese economy was given a Marshall-plan tier windfall by opening up to western industry.
The relative poverty of Vietnam today has nothing to do with defeating China in a month-long conflict.
Austin Foster
>Except also no freedom of press, human rights violations, State Owned Enterprises dominating and ruled by a Communist Party? >unlike china
compared to: >US is turning into niggers and is close to civil war >society is shit >fragile economy and market >all factories are in mexico or china >no gold
jesus you must be aware at least that you're lying through your teeth
Liam Torres
Well, I ran the scenario from a few years ago showing how US naval airpower was insufficient against modern Chinese warships. That sparked a lot of discussion and debate but as of today the scenario still stands.
Easton Edwards
the point is even if china fucked itself it would fuck you harder in the process. they would recover fast and you would crumble.
the chinks win long term.
Luke Morgan
>stockpiles Gold >no gold
I know you're not a chinese shill because they aren't stupid enough to make this argument.
Cameron Cooper
china has more gold than the US. you only got worthless ponzi dollars. the US will soon fall apart because of this.
Brody Lopez
That’s actually not true.
Charles Parker
Not true
Jordan Johnson
You’re kinda dumb And i say that politely
Kevin Lee
Yet China hemorrhages capital to the US.
Matthew Cox
its the other way around
Adam Roberts
>they are very, very competent because they are becoming more like us
Elijah Cook
>a bunch of corrupt chinks try to get as much stolen money out of their shithole as possible
they are fucking insects dude. if there are no disciplined people they get disciplined by getting send into gulags like the mudshits.
Brandon Moore
>china >recover fast after destroying their economy over night
Noah Sanders
they restructure it in under a week while the US dies off completely. the US will pay the higher price, short term and long term. for them its like cutting off a finger for you its like cutting your throat.
Wyatt Barnes
China fucked us up so much the government kowtowed to China for the next 30 years, dude. (they're still doing it now)
Cameron Barnes
You are fucking delusional if you think war with China was a significant influence on the Vietnamese economy. Disregard the: pains of reunification, rebuilding from the Vietnam war, failed economic and industrial reforms, major invasion and occupation of Cambodia for over a decade, and smaller populations and industrial base. It was definitely the
Yeah but muh decade old video of some decades old ship with a broken door getting wet!!!
Everything is fine goym. Focus on Iran. China got BTFO by our impressive freedom of navigation missions. How can they ever recover!
And dont worry be spend trillions on black projects. Surely those will turn around this race any minute
Trust the plan.
Michael Young
>they restructure it in under a week
you're boring
Isaac Evans
Hi Nguyen, enjoy leeching of all those MAGA scraps falling off the table
David Hill
The USA has been allowing CN to fuck us on trade for 40 years junior. They have been using currency devalue for the last 30.
perhaps if you knew somethings....
Nolan Garcia
delusional mutt thinking niggers will pay for him and not drag him into a never ending racewar.
Thomas Campbell
>"Hi Nguyen, enjoy leeching of all those MAGA scraps falling off the table?" He said, picking a cockroach antenna from between his teeth.
Jose Rodriguez
Let me fix this by posting some cringe copy pastas and screenshots of butthurt coping and screeching.
Ching Chong Tiananemnsquarecaust was real in my mind Chong Plong muh democracy good fellow goyim Pling Plng muh failed CIA insurgency 1 Ching Chong muh failed CIA insurgency 2 Chong Ching muh failed CIA insurgency 3 Chang Chong muh marshal plan Chnung Chang
Oliver Gonzalez
>being this basic
lol
Gabriel Ramirez
mutt cope
Parker Ross
动态网自由门天安門天安门法輪功李洪志Free Tibet 六四天安門事件The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.
Fuck chinks and fuck jannies
Ryder Williams
>Most ironically the Vietnamese economy only really took off AFTER the Sino-Vietnamese War, AFTER the withdrawl of Chinese funding of garbage collectivization policies, and most importantly after the adoption of policies that were more lenient towards private enterprise. Ironically the exact opposite happend.
You gooks went full steam ahead with collectivising the economy after the war and did the usual communist bubble thing that blew up few years later while begging for gibs before realizing what a failure your country is >The party's goal was to unify the economic system of the entire country under communism. Steps were taken to implement this goal at the long-delayed Fourth National Party Congress, convened in December 1976, when the party adopted the Second Five-Year Plan and defined both its "line of socialist revolution" and its "line of building a socialist economy." The next two congresses, held in March 1982 and December 1986, respectively, reiterated this long-term communist objective and approved the five-year plans designed to guide the development of the Vietnamese economy at each specific stage of the communist revolution. >Vietnam [...] solicited financial support for its Second Five-Year Plan from Western nations, international organizations, and communist allies. >The Vietnamese government budget for 1976 amounted to US$2.5 billion, while investments amounting to US$7.5 billion were planned for the period between 1976 and 1980 >The Soviet Union, China, and Eastern Europe offered assistance that was probably worth US$3 billion to US$4 billion, and countries of the Western economic community pledged roughly US$1 billion to US$1.5 billion
10 years after the Sino Vietnamese war the Vietnamese bubble economy had popped and GDP dropped lower than before the war >1979 7,140M.$ >1989 6,293M.$
Joshua Torres
>Collectivising the economy *Raffs in inflated Vic charlie dong
Brandon Powell
Look at Vietnams military spending as percent of GDP from 79 to 99. You’re a moron.
Charles Butler
Dumbass
Nolan Peterson
Lol. That gook got rekt.
Jace Fisher
Obviously the Second Five-Year plan was a total failure. You could figure that out in like 2 minutes of googling.
The salient point here is that the Sino-Vietnamese War was a microscopic factor on the Vietnamese economy compared to everything else going on. What's going to effect your economy more: a wholesale invasion and occupation of your neighbor, or a one-month border skirmish?
In any case, if there was fallout from the conflict with China, it certainly wasn't felt in the economy that boomed after their Third Five-Year Plan in 1981.
>Ironically the exact opposite happend.
This is not correct. After the Vietnam War, Vietnam's interaction with the global economy was heavily restricted, and the expression of a 70-fucking-percent drop in economic productivity from 1979 to 1980 is a product of a tanked exchange rate from VND to USD in 1980 rather than real loss of that magnitude (which to be fair was actually -3.5% that year). You can see proof of this in the data for GDP in VND or GDP fixed at the 2010 exchange rate for USD.
Just stop and think about what you were suggesting. A more-than-halving of GDP from one year to the next would be an economic catastrophe where society ceases to function. Not only did that not happen, but Vietnam managed to defeat both the Khmer Rouge and China in that period, and generate high, sustained growth in the following decade.
Yes, and despite leftist screeching here they have successfully occupied Tibet and resettled it with Han people, and they completely BTFO the Indians during their border war in the 1960s and accomplished their political objectives.
Brayden Williams
Based and Chinpilled.
Nicholas White
Debatable; this was more like a Winter War kind of scenario - the Finns inflicted horrific casualties upon the Soviets but still lost 10% of their territory. You can still think of it as a win, though, if you consider that they weren't completely overrun and annexed like the Baltic states.
Same goes with Vietnam and China; the Chinese suffered horrific casualties because the Vietnamese by this point were battle-hardened troops and well-equipped with Soviet and ironically Chinese equipment, as well as even captured American equipment. Though they failed to protect Pol Pot's government in Cambodia, they succeeded in annexing a little bit of Viet clay and proving to the Vietnamese that Soviet deterrence wasn't 100% reliable. For the Vietnamese though, it was still a win in that they maintained fierce independence unlike other Chinese vassal states.
David Allen
Even the latest 2017 Doklam incident didn't becam actual war, not even armed fight, while India already have several conflicts with Pakistan this years. Westerners' fearmogering against China is alrady failed big time, you just eufuse to accept it.
Nathaniel Sanders
>Vietnam repulsed the invasion very well and embarrassed the shit out of China Nope, typical sexual-fluid delusion and western wishful thinking. If you really have studied the outcomes of skirmishes in 1979~1989, you'll definitely find out PLA actually won most of them, inlcuding sea conflicts, and kept controling severl choke points such as Lao mountain and Zhe Yin mountian. Furthermore, PRC has achieved most main objectives: 1.Destroy major factories and supplies supported by PRC. (Checked) 2.Occupied several settlements of Northern Vietnam.(Checked) 3.Drawing VPA back to Vietnam from Cambodia. (Checked. But only limited and temporally.) 4.Remove Cambodian puppet regime established by Vietcongs (Failed. But achieved later in 90s through diplomatic mean.) 6.Telling Vietnam (and Soviet) that China won’t tolerate their military expansion against China’s interests in SE Asia. (Checked) 7.Signaling “The West”(mainly US) that Red China is willing to help them to contain Soviet.(Checked)
This is discussed many many times but some folks just inisist to live in their own homosexual bubble.
David Wood
whats life like when you have sub80 iq?
Brandon Davis
The real objectives, those involving Cambodia, all failed. The military intervention was a failure. They achieved limited tactical objectives but failed to achieve their operational and strategic options. The only results that were achieved was that they signaled they weren't in the Soviet camp and were willing to take action on that, but that was mitigated by their failure operationally.
Daniel Russell
Politically it improved China’s relations with countries in asia that were afraid of spread of communism from Vietnam.
Ironically China did more in one year than what America did in ten to stop the dominoes from falling
regardless of whether it's true or not, this is the big fish that we should be gearing up to confront who gives a fuck about little shitholes like iran, china is the only credible threat to america and we're wasting resources on insignificant threats
Cooper Russell
Reminder that a few hundred liveleak and gore videos with a few hundred Chinese people in them, maybe more, still doesn't even come close to a fraction of their population.
Levi Murphy
They do actually have less violent crime then western societies
Jackson Gutierrez
>for every escalator that eats a mother and child, 100 more go undocumented
China needed Tibet to secure their border with India. If they never invaded Tibet it would become India's marionette or just get invaded by poos. Controlling Tibet allows you to checkmate the most important agricultural parts of China.
Ian Hill
why invade hawaii when you can already buy up all the hotels in hawaii which give you revenue?
Jackson Gomez
Pig iron and empty missile tubes make no grand navy, Chang, try again.
Nathaniel King
Remember the last time China went to combat and ran away letting un workers get raped and killed? After 40 years of doing nothing when Vietnam pushed their shit in and took down the khamer rouge (ie chicom puppets)
