Sweden is in talks with the UK for the Tempest fighter

Sounds like Sweden and Saab want a pretty big leading role

Considering they’re the only country in the mix that actually manufactures fighters, that’s a good thing for the Brits. I could totally see Tempest becoming a 5th gen version of Grippen.

What are they trying to do with this plane? Out stealth the f35 or try to be more of a fighter like a f22?

That thought makes my dick hard

>I could totally see Tempest becoming a 5th gen version of Grippen
How so? The bongs don't want a cheap and easy to maintain basic western fighter for third world countries, they want a Typhoon replacement.

Offer a cheaper, more versatile version of the F-35.
The goal is to end the F-35s sales and steal them, and its probably going to work

>and its probably going to work
mega jej

That’s a very bold claim
Also wasn’t it supposed to be a 6th generation jet like the Franco-German FCAS?

Tempest is dead. Nothing will come out of it. They'd need Germany and France (at the minimum) to get it moving. And we all know that won't happen.

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Germany, France, and Spain are already developing their own though

>They'd need Germany and France (at the minimum) to get it moving
To be fair, I don't think producing a somewhat shittier F-35/F-22 for 3x the cost is beyond the UK's ability.

>They'd need Germany and France
Why?

>Also wasn’t it supposed to be a 6th generation jet like the Franco-German FCAS?
Yeah.

Much easier to develop something if you know someone is already going to buy it (someone other than you of course)

Then I don’t see the comparison with the F35
It’s supposed to replace the Typhoon. It won’t, but that’s another issue entirely

>it won't
Why?

It’s a doomed project from the start. The UK doesn’t have the capabilities to develop a 6th generation fighter by itself, especially not in the current climate

saying it doesn't make it true.

Yeah they should've consulted you, the jet fighter cockpit expert.

The F-35 is already pretty cheap on a per-unit basis. I doubt the brits will have the manufacturing volume necessary to offset dev costs and make a cheaper plane.

What was the last fighter that the UK developed and produced on its own?

Probably the Harrier, I think. If the Swedes get involved, at least they have the engineering experience to build modern(ish) fighters.

>on its own

There's that desperate caveat that gets trotted out because people think joint work somehow means nothing. The UK has comfortably more aerospace skills than anyone else in Europe.

But will it be able to handle the ramp????

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Probably not. Maybe they'll convert them to CATOBAR in 30 years.

SAAB can't make a 5+gen fighter on a Sweden budget.

Also didn't SAAB & Bofors get bought up by BAE?

An official said Tempest is not intended to ever be carrier capable, however the drone that it will work alongside will be carrier capable.

Not answering the question I see

>virtual cockpit
We foehammer now

Not him but the guages of fighters are always built at a vertical stand with a glareshield for a reason...

I think his point is obvious, whoever the concept artist is, obviously doesnt know about cockpit ergonomics and instrument visibility.

Based

Because its irrelevant. France hasn't designed one for almost 30 years.

Yeah but France isn’t developing a fighter alone, it’s working with Germany and Spain

The gauges aren't there. They are projected in his visor. That's the whole point of a virtual cockpit.

Who have even less experience.

Meanwhile the UK has worked on multiple aircraft projects in the same period and has all aspects of aviation construction and design within its boarders.

The fact that these companies are working on various projects rather than one is a major bonus.

>Well, Britain lacks the capacity to straight-up design and build their own fighter aircraft.

Objectively incorrect. What they lack is the money to do it independently for this generation of plane.

>Objectively incorrect
Considering they haven't since, what, the Harrier? It seems a little presumptuous to say that with such certainty.

Doesn't mean they can't. They have all the required industry, they make all the required parts, they have plenty of experience.

The only reason there hasn't been is money and politics.

Where did this dumb idea that the UK is poor come from? There are calls for the defence budget to rise by 50% to 3% of GDP. There's even senior ministers calling for 4%.

What area do you think the UK will struggle with?

>they make all the required parts
No they don't
>they have plenty of experience
Most of the engineers who designed fighter aircraft in the UK have either retired or moved on to different fields. Same deal with the UK's tank industry.
>The only reason there hasn't been is money and politics.
The only reason there hasn't been is [difficult bordering on insurmountable problems]

I don't think anyone's claiming Britain is poor, it's just that they seem to consistently lack the political will to invest heavily in defense in the eyes of many outside observers.

We literally just signed up to spend about £170bn for the next 40 years of maintaining a nuclear deterent.

Once again, saying something doesn't make it true. Feel free to provide proof.

What were the projections for Brexit's impact on the economy again?

Depends on which source, but I don't think any of them are particularly positive forecasts. I still can't fathom a why a service economy whose primary industry seems to be global trade and finance would decide to leave the largest trade agreement on the planet.

i seem to remember Nigel whining about sending some money to Poland

>No they don't
Such as? They have everything from cockpit systems, cockpit components, undercarriage, airframe, RCS research, network/electronics, radar, engines, DASS, seats, the lot.

>Most of the engineers who designed fighter aircraft in the UK have either retired or moved on to different fields. Same deal with the UK's tank industry.
So we're ignoring the Tornado, Typhoon, F-35, Gripen then? Or that Rolls-Royce, BAE, Leonardo, MBDA etc all exist?

>The only reason there hasn't been is [difficult bordering on insurmountable problems]
Oh look, an open response with no detail when confronted by facts. What a surprise.

Because Farage is a Manchurian candidate taking orders directly from Juncker. duh

They'll take a hit in the short term, and who fucking knows for the long term. Though it is worth noting that most of the EU isn't exactly doing too well economically at present either. It is basically being kept afloat by Germany.

Honestly, the smart move may be trying to produce a pan-Anglo trade and defense agreement of some sort. Imagine a coalition of the US, UK, Canada, Aus, and NZ? The US would inevitably dominate it, but I could imagine every country involved would benefit greatly.

Trump needs to be out of the office for that to happen
Also Canada, Aus and NZ already have FTAs with the EU or are negotiating

The Trump thing is probably true. UK might be able to tear the other countries away from the EU if they get America on board, though.

Ehhhh
Maybe Norway, but they're too entangled to the EU at this point. Not even the UK will leave at the end imo and they basically weren't even in

By other countries, I meant the ANZAC and Canadians who are perusing closer economic integration into the EU.

Oh yeah it's possible
I think they'll just stay on the sideline and profit from both though

>The gauges aren't there. They are projected in his visor. That's the whole point of a virtual cockpit.
Oh, you mean something that won't inevitably work properly?

The opposite is true. The fewer nations involved the less of a design by comittee it is. Also means manufacture doesn't have to be spread over multiple nations. Keeps costs down and reduces the timetable for decisions to be made.

Cat and traps are gay. constantly have issues amd break down.

nigger, there's no money for R&D, no orders. only a stupid shithead would think this is good. which should tell you something about yourself.

>Hurr durr UK lacks enough experience in designing fighters, they need to work with nations with even less experience.
Imagine being this retarded.

Anal drones.

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Pretty good overall. None of the negative predicitons by globalist organisations funded by the EU about what would happen immediately follwing a vote leave came true. In fact, trade, investment and the economy has done the opposite.
Probably because its shit at negotiating trade deals and is politcally intrusive, favours french agriculture and german industry at the expense of all others, is undemocratic and jsut a bit shit, but idk.

No, the EU is a terrible negotiator and many other countries have started negotiations long after the EU did and succesfully conluded. No FTA with Canada, Australia or the US on the horizon for the EU.

>Pretty good overall.
yeah only dropped gdp from 3.1% in 2014 to 1.4% in 2018

Nigger, show me a previous collaboratoin which was one time, on budget and which didn't have one or more nations constantly demanding spec changes or threats to live. Only a stupid shithead would think this is good. Which, along with your inability to English, should tell you something about yourself.

Your statement makes no sense, what you're trying to say is wrong, and you're a kike.

he's just probably dog-whistling about islamists and brown people
no point on addressing the obvious troll

I mean, they do lack experience in designing fighters, so I’m not sure what your point is.

>they need to work with nations with even less experience.
Nigga you dumb.

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Except they've been involved in designing fighters (Jaguar/Tornado/Gripen/Typhoon/F-35) for decades, and are the only nation in Europe with any significant experience in developing 5th generation technologies?

They need said countries' money and assurances of orders via partners to make the production line viable in terms of quantity.

>They need said countries' money and assurances of orders
Which has exactly jack and shit to do with how how much aircraft design experience one of those potential partner countries has in comparison with the UK. Yes the UK's budget is anemic, but if you throw shitloads of money at a problem without expertise you end up with the HAL Tejas.

and if you dont you endup with nothing
so hurrrr

>HAL Tejas
>Better than nothing
nigga you still dumb

>tejas is bad
fuck off paki

The poo-in-loos spent a billion dollars and three decades to produce almost three dozen early 4th gen aircraft. It's what happens when a country without (or that has lost) the capability to manufacture a combat aircraft whole cloth jumps into the fray with big dreams and a can-do attitude. The other outcome gets you a Qaher-313 but people still respect the Brits too much to entertain that possibility.

pakistani cope. the tejas is a 4th gen, fucking deal with it westcuck

The Tejas is an expensive piece of shit with no endurance.

>the tejas is a 4th gen
That's pretty much my point. The Tejas started development properly in 1985, after about a decade of waffling about after the failure of the Marut program, with plans to be in service a decade later. The first one didn't fly until the turn of the 21st century and they didn't enter service in any capacity for 14 more years, by which time it was somewhere between merely adequate and outright outdated. Twenty years to produce an aircraft slightly less capable than an F-16A that entered service a decade before the Tejas design requirements were finalized. Compare that to the design lifetimes of other "home grown" 4th gen fighters like F-CK-1 and T-50 which had program start (not development start, but actually just getting the program off the ground) to introduction times of 10-12 years because their developments were heavily involved with countries that knew what the fuck they were doing.

This all comes back to the potential entrance by the Swedes into the Tempest program. To compare it to the F-CK-1 they represent the Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Honeywell, and (with some irony) BAE to England's AIDC. If England wants to take the HAL approach then they might end up with an adequate early 5th gen fighter several decades after it would have been adequate or maybe they'll just end up with another TSR-2.

An excellent post. You can see the same thing with the Indian Arjun and Italian Ariete programs as well.

>EU
>ecomic area with the most trade deals
>econmic area with the most trade deals close of being finalized
>terrible negotiator

>No FTA with Canada, Australia or the US on the horizon for the EU.
But they already have with both Canada and Australia.

The Tejas is fucking awful. I don’t think anyone who isn’t an Indian nationalist would even try to dispute that.

I hope this comes through.

It's virtual. The actual cockpit would be almost empty.

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People said this about screens instead of gauges.

Get with the times gramps

Gripen was designed by brits at BAE as part of the Eurofighter competition. Sweden/Saab paid BAE for design help. The design was altered obviously and improved. But it was an older design.

>france

No. Fuck them.

>germany
Even in both Tornado and Typhoon programme they played secondary role to the UK. While it is true that these projects were split evenly between the UK and Germany (while other partners got scraps) it also means that germany's role isn't as important as people make it to be other than as a bankable client to keep the cost down. Germany's absense can be adequately filled by both Sweden and Japan

Japan is developing its own 6th gen

Don't be surprised when it doesn't work out.