9mm's early reputation

Yes and no. 9mm actually had a greater anecdotal reputation for stopping power than contemporaries like .45 ACP in many circles until it began to become popular in the US, as evidenced by numerous field reports and even some government studies regarding the round(and other axis weapons) during and immediately after WW2. During the time period of 30-40yrs ago the reputation of 9mm declined precipitously in the US due to the intersection of an explosion in the carrying of autoloaders and burgeoning JHP technology with LEOs and civilians in general. People started to carry autoloaders in record numbers, and JHPs in those autoloaders as technological improvements allowed for reliable feeding, but JHP technology was at the time rather lackluster and misguided(see the Relative Incapacitation Index for instance, which guided LEO bullet design to a large degree). With mediocre JHP design the higher mass/momentum of .45 ACP(for instance) typically allowed for adequate penetration regardless, while similarly designed 9mm rounds had a proclivity for much more erratic performance and frequently failed to expand or failed to penetrate adequately. This resulted in a deserved reputation of the 9mm as an inferior man stopper compared to .45 with serious users when loaded with JHPs.
Eh, .38 HPs(or similar) fired from a service sized revolver were already a well developed technology in comparison to early 9mm JHPs, the lack of feeding issues inherent to revolvers meant that they had been issued for literally decades at the time(massive head start over 9mm JHPs) and many of the kinks had been worked out over those years. Shockingly loads like the 158gr LSWCHP still perform adequately in gel testing(while offering good expansion) to this day from service length barrels, so long as barrier tests are excluded. Id take that over a circa 1987 hi-shok any day of the week on a round per round basis.

>Did 9mm deserve its initial reputation of not being 'powerful' enough to kill someone? Or was it always fuddlore?
Do you even history? 9mm came out in 1902, JMB cranked out .25acp, .32acp, and .380 auto within the next half decade. The 25 was pretty much a pocket pistol round, the other 2 saw plenty of military use. Earlier generations were familiar with rounds in small, light chamberings, and respected them.

I think, if anything, the meme about 9mm not being powerful enough is merely millenial/zoomer lore. Keeping in mind, of course, that fuddism is not a generational thing but a mindset of gun owners who wouldn’t mind restrictions for the greater good. So, we can almost categorize fudds as a subset of socialism.

>Did 9mm deserve its initial reputation of not being 'powerful' enough to kill someone? Or was it always fuddlore?

Hollowpoints
Hollowpoints
Hollowpoints

Military uses FMJ
Military jumped from 32 & 38 caliber revolvers, 32 ACP, etc, up to 45 ACP because "no hole smaller than 0.45 inches is big enough to be a man-stopper"

Police and military elsewhere kept using 32 ACP and similar for decades
380 ACP was super popular self-defense in the early 20th

In fact I think the FN's 5.7mm isbetter

I think it's fuddlore, handguns in general are not the ideal gun for killing people with, bad guys have in the past take up to 14 rounds of fuddy-five and kept on attacking without a drop of drugs in their system. Practically all handgun rounds fail to hit the 2200 ft/s minimum velocity necessary to create permanent wound cavities that actually tear into and destroy vital organs outside of the bullet's direct path of travel. Human organs are rubbery and flexible and while the temporary wound cavity can distort their shape greatly they will generally not be destroyed by this action to the point where a bad guy instantly drops. This is what makes higher velocity intermediate rifle rounds and large rifle rounds so much more deadly, the speed of their passage causes a permanent wound cavity that can be several times the bullet's diameter which can rip open vital organs like the heart, lungs, or major arteries which cause instant massive drops in blood pressure and result in near immediate death or incapacitation. There is a difference in the foot-poundage of various handgun caliber bullets but it's not going to make an enormous difference, generally all handguns hit with a force equivalent to a stiff punch, not enough to stop a person mid charge especially if they're running on adrenaline, so because a huge volume of their blood doesn't instantly pour out from a massive permanent wound cavity they generally don't get "stopped", sometimes a person simply immediately understands they've been shot and the adrenaline doesn't kick in and a combination of shot and pain causes them to fall over, other people do get the adrenaline and you get those cases where a bad guy gets an entire mag dumped into them and doesn't even notice, or you hit something critical dead on and the lights go out instantly. Shot placement > Muh stobbin powa when it comes to any handgun you chose to carry.

the FBI didnt report that everyone involved in this shooting where on cocaine, after all it was Miami

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Capacity + controlability > meme centemeter cartridge

Yes, because 9mm FMJ sucks and has a reputation for just "icepicking" wounds. .45 ACP, while being heavier, cut bigger holes more reliably.

It wasn't until within the past few decades that we both got decent 9mm JHPs and handguns that could reliably feed them, making 9mm a very adequate choice today.

limp wrist detected

Militarily it lost it's lethality due to basic gear protection options. The Feds used .40S&W but the Police and Military had been using 9mm because they are not funded as much. The DHS would fund local police to meet .40S&W supply. However 9mm has been killing for more than 100 years, no doubt about it. The only reason why 9mm is considered usable commercially is because of the .38spl HP "Cop Killers", because ironically Law Enforcement Agencies use of hallow points is restricted.

Cocaine does not enhance the muscle or skeletal structure but constricts blood flow for that stimulating high that has a risk of heart failure.

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tbf the FBI was on cocaine

>Cocaine does not enhance the muscle or skeletal structure but constricts blood flow for that stimulating high that has a risk of heart failure
that why it took .50 cals to the head to waste chatted up somalis

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>Thinking Somalis are reanimated zombies.

Anything with metabolic metabolism dies normally. Ironically people under coke bleed out faster.

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>Somalis are reanimated zombies.
they'er not

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>9mm stopped killing people in combat because flak jackets
That's why we ditched the M9 and went back to good ol' 1911's.

Unless you're shooting 357 magnum or 10mm out of a duty length barrel all handgun calibers suck at killing people. 9mm is worthwhile now today because bullet technology is a highly developed science and 9mm can really expand well in a human body while offering just shy of 20 rounds in a large handgun while a similarly performing round like 45 acp has a lower capacity.

Tupac was shot 9 times in the torso with a 9mm before he ever got a record contract.

I've been over this with an EMT friend of mine.
.357 is DOA. .40/.45 have a 75% fatality rate. 9mm the victim walks out of the hospital 3 days later.

Tupac was the victim of a nigger drive by with no shot placement and ball ammunition. If it was fuddy five or 40 the result would have been the same. 357 would have floored him though yes.

>Though today we see 9mm as a perfectly adequate handgun cartridge
If by "WE," you mean shooters have never, ever been in a gunfight.
>They were poorly designed and did not allow adequate penetration
They were no different than today's hollowpoints. Anyone who tells you today's hollowpoints are any different is a shill for the ammo companies.
>An officer shot the gunman literally dead on, bullet went through his arm right to his heart. And stopped an inch short.
And killed him, but even a man shot through the heart doesn't always die immediately.