POG jobs should be replaced by civilian contractors whenever possible. Obviously, this is not possible in all cases...

POG jobs should be replaced by civilian contractors whenever possible. Obviously, this is not possible in all cases, but when those who have even an abstract understanding of combat become a minority in the military establishment, the culture of the military changes from the esprit de corps of soldiers to just another political bureaucracy.

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yes the Government should pay civilians 100 times what they have to pay soldiers to do jobs they can't hope to do in the field without an escort and can't depend on in a pinch to fulfill actual combat roles, that's an amazing idea.

Who said anything about the field? Most POGs don't go within 1000 miles of a battlefield. Do you have any idea how many POGs there are in Washington, D.C. alone, let alone all the stateside bases and bases in countries like Germany, which hasn't seen a war in three generations? They are men whose fingers have done more work on keyboards than on triggers. Let bureaucrats work in the bureaucracy--let soldiers fight on the battlefield.

>sounds like every single noncombat soldier already.

golly i hope you're a neverserved because this is retarded
first of all it'd be magnitudes more expensive and far less efficient.
want a pog to show up to work earlier and work longer? tell them to.
want a civ to do that? well they either get overtime or you get another civ to come in and pick up where they left off, which has its own issues on top of being substantially more expensive.

ignore the finances and lack of control over them compared to pogs...
civilians cannot operate under the authorities of the military. even if they work for the DoD. you have to have uniformed personnel do a lot of things or it magically becomes illegal and a lot of questions get raised about responsibility.
you can always just blame some officer for failure to properly take care of or train their troops and then fuck them over. no one bats an eye back home.
do that to a civ and they will flip shit and cry discrimination or whatever they can to fight back and get more money.
if war were declared and you had a beirut 2.0 with civs instead it'd be even more of a shitshow.

tl;dr it wouldn't work and you're a dumb

One thought kept me up at night, as i lay in the dirt and mud and hoped the creepy crawlies would leave me alone while i pulled security:

Helicopter door gunmen. were they more grunt, or more POG? they slept behind the wire most nights, but easily saw more combat action than i. Not so easily categorized, that MOS

Comment on pic.
Unless he is soaked with sweat or wet and doesn't have a foam or inflatable ground mat, that soldier is toasty warm.
Love my surplus MSS and have used it for survival in my truck after breaking down in -10 F weather.
It is with me now minus one layer left at home during the Summer.

>lay in the dirt and mud
>pulled security
hooah

>want a pog to show up to work earlier and work longer? tell them to.
That's not really relevant when all POGs do is shuffle paperwork and sweep floors.
>more expensive
Soldiers aren't that cheap. The military spends a lot of money on them when you consider how unproductive most of them are.
>civilians cannot operate under the authorities of the military
Says who? Congress and the President are over the military, and they're civilians.
>you have to have uniformed personnel do a lot of things or it magically becomes illegal
So let Congress made it not illegal.
>do that to a civ and they will flip shit and cry discrimination or whatever they can to fight back
POGs (especially women) do that too, which is why the military is so pussified now.
>if war were declared and you had a beirut 2.0 with civs instead it'd be even more of a shitshow.
How many POGs do you think there were back in the Civil War? Very few, because only a nation which has been coddled by peace can afford to have POGs. There weren't many POGs in the Soviet Union or Germany in WW2, because they actually needed men to fight.

>depend on in a pinch to fill combat roles
You mean tower guard and latrine guards? Anything else and you're stretching pog mental capacity.

Every word you type reveals more and more of your ignorance. Personally, I don't care if you continue, and I'm not here to educate you, but I highly recommend that you educate yourself.

Not an argument.

>ignorance
Great factual points made, and your response is to use ad hominem and claim that user should "educate" himself.

Not here to argue, not here to educate you. You're trying to stir shit up with half-formed, incoherent opinions, not anything resembling cogent argumentation. I'd tell you to go back to whichever shitboard or forum you came from, but you won't. You'll just sit here, shitting Jow Forums up even further until it's no better than /tv/ or Jow Forums. It's just what you people do.

You are big boy retarded, I was a POG, IT in the USMC, you could never in a million years actually get even a contractor to do what I did for a tenth the price. Now were there contractors out their doing what I did? Yes for 250k starting a year. Plus meals and housing. O and they never had to any of the physical labor, and had limited shifts. I made 20k. And also guess what our base took mortars and rockets, convoys hit IED's. There were multiple places I went to work on switches, and computers that contractors had to be escorted for security reasons, as in it wasnt safe, they needed someone with a rifle, or that they simply werent allowed to go because they would be a liability. And this is IT. You want to replace, airplane mechanics, and every other PG to? When i was in afghan, several from my Wing got killed when taliban slipped through the wire. You also act like everyone in the military never moves bases and if you go to DC you just sit their and wait to die. You dont you rotate around and eventually deploy.

No civilian can be forced to work half as hard in as shitty conditions, as a POG. I have lifted generators and AC units into position to cool and power comms gear, until my hands bled, and then spent 36 hours working on computers till shit worked, with no sleep. And that wasnt special, or even that terrible for a POG.

Cant even imagine how much shittier it was for grunts.

TLDR you are big retarded and wont admit it, because you'll lose all your imaginary internet points

i got a POG story for you
>be me Blackhawk crew chief in Germany
>basically a mechanic who is a door gunner
>4 aircraft fly 2 hours to land in a field
>shutdown to support infantry training for a big air assault later that night
>4 hours till mission starts
>someone brought a football, fuck ya
>playing football while the pilots sit in their fold-up camping chairs
>can see the infantry in the tree line pulling security
>mission start, we load up, drop them off, fly home

long story short
the infantry was pulling security in the field sleeping in dirt holes watching us play football

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As I said in the OP, not ALL POGs can be replaced by civilians, but many can.

No. You cant abuse civilians the way you can abuse POGs.

>replaced by civilian contractors
Oh fuck no, as former military and now civilian, you've got to pay the bastards overtime, their superannuation, all the travel and housing expenses- then god help you if one of the dumb arses gets shot, injures themselves and lodges a compensation claim. Plus the bare minimum you're in the pocket for someone that even half knows what the fuck they're doing starts at about 150-180k a year with everything factored in AND being a civilian, they can go 'no too hard', pack their shit and fuck off back home.

I don't really get why people got into the meme about hating on POG's and fobbits, they work like dogs for fuck all pay and at the end of the day all your meals, laundry, vehicle repairs, hole digging and damn near everything else has to be done by them. Having been shot at for quite a bit of my time in the shit, being shot at is highly over rated for a way of making a living.

Except you literally havent been able to list any. We had fucking admin out in afghanistan. And they would run fucking convoys, or stand security at bases. Someone in my unit took fire at his post one night. That could easily, have been one of the cooks, or admin, or mechanics. Every unit had to give people for guard duty. As grunts were either outside the wire or fucking trying to sleep.

Not really that hard, if they're getting shot at by discretionary weapons regularly they aren't POG no matter where they sleep

plenty of Pogs got pulled into conveys to work as turret gunners and their was open recruitment for door gunner spots on the FOBs. Fact is every Pog still has to qualify at the range and pass their PT tests, civilian contractors don't

>Army air traffic controller who got to work the Fobs not important enough to warrant a 200 grand a year contractor

while i appreciate you giving me so many (you)s, that was a tad unnecessary.
im eager to know what you did while in the military.
i was a marine like that other guy and worked with a bunch of civs who made over 5 times as much as me but worked half as much and legally could not be made to work more without significantly more pay.
if they had to come in on weekends, they got paid massive overtime.
have to come in at night, even if it's 100% planned and approved 2 weeks beforehand? overtime.
me? tell me to hurry the fuck up and be there asap, shit's broken. then just tell me to go home early the next day if everything's fine.

list all the pog jobs that need to be replaced by civs and share your experiences in the military, plz

>When i was in afghan, several from my Wing got killed when taliban slipped through the wire.
yeah well when i was in afghanistan, our company had 19 kia within three months. get fucked pogue

Replacing much of the military with civilian counterparts is a great idea, it's just that people like ole Dick stick their fat crooked fingers into the pie and we end up with Halliburton eating fresh lobster in the desert, while grunts can't get a few plates of steel.

Perhaps you should serve before trying to pretend you have any idea how the military works.

Are you window lickers actually fighting over whose unit had the most KIAs? You know the objective is to not get your asses killed, right?

He clearly has no experience in the military. At best he just dropped out of SOI or whatever the army analog is.