So the German Navy finally, after sending the ship back to ThyssenKrupp 2 years ago cause of its flaws, officially commissioned the first of 4 Baden-Württemberg class "Super Frigate" (It has the largest displacement of any other frigate).
Running on the assumption that all the problems are fixed and the ships are now operating as designed. How good is this massive frigate.
>7200 ton displacement
Is that not just a small DDG at that point?
Yea, its kinda pushing the limits of what defines a frigate, the only other frigate that comes near is the FREMM class at 6,200 tons. But thats considered a multi role frigate and is classified as a destroyer by some of its operators (I think either Egypt or Morocco says its a destroyer)
That's a lot of ship with no VLS. kind of a waste tbqh.
Yeah, as it stands right now it only has 8 RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles, but its a stop gap till the RBS 15 MK4 from Saab is completed. Which would give it some Ship-to-surface ability
It's big because that ship has way more redudancy included.
Operating two years before returning to its home port is not a trivial design task.
Hell, even the Sachsen-class frigate at only 5,800 tons has 32 VLS cells.
Wrong Pic
If nothing else, at least it looks good.
Seems like a paper tiger. Don't the Burke's have 100 VLS with similar tonnage?
the name zerstörer "destroyer" is deemed to agressive. Nothing more than marketing
The Burke's have a displacement of 9,600 tons in its newest configuration.
But this aint a destroyer, I think its focused on solely being a frigate.
how ever i have no idea about the usecase for this ship. Its supposed to be multirole and modular.
>destroyer is deemed too aggressive
God dammit, Germany.
>that meme
Frigates and destroyers have different definitions within the NATO.
yeah right, because thats the most important point when it comes to get a new project financed.
When even a ex-navy weapons maintainer say so im inclined to believe him. Also when it comes to definitions germany had plenty of destroyers during the cold war with less displacement.
So you have no argument
if first hand experience doesnt count.
How about its a ship designed to operate on its own for a prolonged time with multi use in mind. It uses a wide range of weapons and carries multiple helicopters. It has a displacement just shy of 8000 tones. Therefor it can reasonably be classified as a light destroyer. and maby in the future it could get even heavier.
>"Why it so big but so lightly armed!?"
It was designed as a very strange long endurance ship for the sort of things Germany invisions doing. ie - Not big combat like US/UK/FR type designs.
>"Why it called a frigate then!"
There is no defined rule of frigates vs destroyers in tonnage. The upcoming British frigates can reach 8,800 tonnes fully loaded after all. To them it's about role, not size. France also has a different way of defining, as does Germany. Tonnage is not the defining difference. There was no "it's too aggressive!" thing. Thats just internet meme bullshit.
Should still have vls. No reason to not have vls on a ship that size.
The German navy is buying the RBS 15 MK4 from Saab to fufill a dual ship-to-ship and ship-to-ground role.
>building started in 2011
>Only one is complete
What the fuck Germany?
Most frigates are around that size.
It had a ton of problems when it was first given to the germans in early 2016, and had to be sent back and fixed and tested again before they commissioned it.
Pic related is the best frigate in the world 4,000 tonnes. Absolute peak design
>building started in 2011
>Only one is complete
>What the fuck Germany?
Build one, fix unforseen flaws, adjust blueprints, build the other three.
Kinda the same way China & USA is building its carriers, the Gerald R. Ford Class is being modified because of the teething issues on the USS G.R. Ford.
Yes Chang, very cool, have your social credit points and leave. This is about this german frigate specifically, not a dick measuring contest.
No, there has to be a reason for a VLS.
Why does an HDR/Long range patrol frigate need a VLS and all the associated equipment like a fire control radar, CMS?
because no patrol and peace keeping without power projection. long range missles would help accomplish that.
I don't understand what that even means - you haven't explained WHY a patrol / humanitarian aid ship needs a VLS.
The primary goal of that ship is "Krisenbewältigung und
Konfliktverhütung" that means prevention of conflict. Lets say you are patrolling on the coast of some african dictatorship who wants to have another genocide. If your ship cant threaten vital infrastructure or military instalations from international waters. The dictator can just ignore you and pillage as much as he wants. There goes your objective.
Another objective is to support spec ops and gather intelligence via drones etc. VLS could be adapted to launch small drones or even clusters in the future.
see
The RBS 15 MK4 from Saab has ship-to-ground capabilities.
>7000 tons
>outgunned by an LCS
still not as modular as vls. it can accept multiple different types of missles to suit the mission at hand. also not as upgradable as vls. cant use vls for non destructive purposes drones etc
This actually has anti ship missiles, how is it outgunned?
it hasnt yet. its planned
It currently has 8 RGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles as a stopgap till the new Gungir missiles from SAAB are able to be deployed.
oh right, forgot those
whats even the point of these shitty small ships? Fuckall for firepower, what is the intended target?
No, it's a giant patrole boat, there is no need for a VLS. It doesn't fit the profile of a destroyer, that'S why it neither needs the weapon systems nor the title.
because that is meant to be a destroyer and major air defender. And for them is true and the MOD wanted ships that can be used for everything in green and blue waters, so it fitted the frigate role better than the destroyer role
the perfect size is 5800 tonnes
see
And LCS have NSM with the option of an 8 cell VLS.
Not yet at least.
Also its really just designed to be a big ol patrol boat like said.
It's funny how ships just keep creeping up in size and displacement. A Destroyer now is what a cruiser was in WWII. A corvette is the size of a WWII destroyer and a Frigate is between the two.
You do realize Germany is mostly landlocked and all of its sea activity will either be police work or in assistance to NATO and natural disaster relief operations, that sort of stuff?
They don't need much in the way of VLS. It has a few and that's all it needs.
>They don't need much in the way of VLS. It has a few and that's all it needs.
Having more space for refugees is good :3
>Kinda the same way China & USA is building its carriers, the Gerald R. Ford Class is being modified because of the teething issues on the USS G.R. Ford.
Dude one since 2011, and its nothing like building a carrier. Whats going on with German shipbuilding?
Reminder that its called a Frigate for procurement reasons*only*.
Its also a top heavy bloated piece of shit with absolutely no tonnage left over for any kind of mid life upgrade.
Yet anther procurement triumph for the German MOD
on yeah forgot that it is overweight a fuck ton
Ok Pajeet
Ok Pajeet
It is barely armed. Its practically useless in any modern conflict.
That seems incredibly inefficient.
For the amount of tonnage and resources to keep the thing at sea, you'd think they would want some multi-role use out of it.
>overweight
>under gunned
>expensive
>7000 ton "frigate" corvette patrol boat
Whoa so this is the power of German engineering, huh.
Literally the most autistic post I've seen on Jow Forums in the last 30 seconds
Well, the average Turk is better integrated and harder working than the average African American born and raised in the US of A, so why not.
I like how she looks, good that the Germans seemed satisfied enough to accept for service.
Even if I think the kind of role she's designed to have does not require such a large ship. Being a patrol ship and one that needs to carry some ASMs should it ever need to engage in surface combat.
Nice
She really is a beauty. I just don't like that all our ships are going for a similar design and not pushing the stealth meme.