How did the SEALs fuck everything up THIS badly? Also

No amount of training makes a person super-human.

A little training OTOH stops them from making absolutely basic mistakes, which these SEALs made repeatedly on the same mission. Failing to plan is planning to fail.

SEALs didn't start out with basic infantry culture, training, or experience, so they don't know how to do basic infantry shit like every other Tier 1 unit. And since they're technically Tier 1 according to admin charts, they think they're better than most of the people who could teach them.

did they have ghost recon invisibility cloaks or eagle vision? no. they got lit up by goatfucks with aks and a pkm.

>SEALs didn't start out with basic infantry culture, training, or experience, so they don't know how to do basic infantry shit like every other Tier 1 unit

Can you elaborate on this? Really interested.

He's exaggerating, but there is some truth to the fact that the SEAL's are their own little world, and they've gradually become more independent over time. For example, it used to be that SEAL snipers were trained at USMC Scout Sniper school. Now the SEAL's have their own little sniper training course. If current trends continue, the SEAL's will eventually have their own air force and navy.

ComTech failure
An imbalanced conflict between duty and morale
Unknown and unknowable variables
No one is immortal

That's just the film. I don't know how much of it accurately portrayed the exact happenings of that real event only survived by one man.

Why so much SEAL hate all the time? "sf" guys are only human. Why are yanks so public with this kind of stuff?

You mean like GI Joe?

>Why are yanks so public with this kind of stuff?
Because we have guns

>their own airforce and navy
They already do tho, SOAR and SWCC (although IIRC these guys are liable to be part of any SOCOM mission)

Talking about opsec

What else is new? The SEALs fucked up in the Battle of Takur Ghar and left an airman to die.

There's not much to elaborate on. A lot of what goes into expertise in small group combat is planning and understanding how to minimize the damage when things go wrong. Seals blow this off. They outsource their mission planning to their intel guys (unlike all other Tier 1 units - GBs are famous for exhaustive planning) and don't know shit about fighting above the team level, at max.

As long as everything goes perfectly they look ok. When SHTF, they're fucked.

Source: I was an 11B who met some seals and watched them fuck up the basics on deployment; and I talked to SF who told me similar stories and gave me this background.

To give you an rough idea, new minted SEALs get about seven weeks' worth of land warfare training between the time they start BUD/S and graduating SQT to join their team.

sometimes airing everybody's dirty laundry for the world to see - as humbling and embarrassing as it is - is the only way to properly motivate some individuals/groups to get their shit together.

The one's I knew were all chads w/surfer vans. Too cool for school

I feel like the Navy has deliberately softened secrecy standards for the SEAL's because they're so good for recruitment. Every year, hundreds of guys read "American Sniper" or "Lone Survivor" or "No Easy Day" and then join the navy thinking they're destined to be SEAL's. Then they get to BUD/S, and suddenly it isn't a fantasy anymore, it is real, and they're expected to perform. Some guys don't even make it past the Orientation phase; the very first time they set foot in the water, they feel how cold it is and suddenly realize that this just isn't for them. But they've already signed a contract for the Navy, and so the Navy is free to re-assign them wherever additional men are needed.

I heard most BUD/S dropouts get reassigned as corpsman, the navy equivalent of combat medics. It's not an enviable job for most people; it's very dangerous, but necessary work, and the never-ending stream of BUD/S dropouts keeps the Navy well supplied with corpsmen.

Show vid

Why would they worry when they have batt boys to pull them out every time

Interesting point.
US navy struggles to recruit medics? Had no idea.

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>Why so much SEAL hate all the time? "sf" guys are only human.

That is precisely the problem. SEALs don´t seem to understand that they are only human.

In a business where arrogance gets you killed and this is acknowledged by everyone, SEALs will consistently fail to understand this and, as a result, get themselves and others killed.

The two biggest fiascos in SEAL history probably are Operation Anaconda and Operation Red Wings. In both cases, SEALs did not familiarize themselves properly with the environment they were going to operate in, walked/flew into ambushes, and got both themselves and their assisting SOF comrades killed.

Operation Anaconda was a specially bad case of this because not only did the SEALs fuck up, but when the Navy wanted to play games to save its honour after SEALs abandoned Technical Sergeant John Chapman in enemy hands by accident, the SEALs involved did not tell the big boys in the Navy to go fuck themselves. These asswipes are arrogant enough to risk the lives of dozens of people, but not enough to show some fucking spine and help a guy get the Medal of Honor he deserved.

I wish Medal of Honor 2010 had been written to follow the story of Operation Anaconda exactly as Sean Naylor described it in his book "Not a Good Day to Die".

Fuck SEALs.

>thats just the way it is in the teams bro! Rank doesnt matter, everyone has an equal say!
Thats basically what lutrell and everyone has said.

>corpsman school ever sullying their good name with bud/s washouts
fuck no
they become hull techs and boatswain's mates and other shit jobs the navy needs filled but nobody ever enlists in

Maybe being arrogant helps you not drown, secure/destroy - boats, oil rigs, harbours and beaches? I don't know.

there's a fine line between quiet confidence (backed by actual competence) and arrogance.

The only place where cockiness = superpowers is the movies.

imagine typing this

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You do kinda have to be an arrogant piece of shit to think that you can do the kind of things frogmen are expected to accomplish. Read more about the kind of stuff they did back when they were focused more on being a naval reconnaissance & demolitions unit, and you'll start to see where the "legend" came from. I feel like most of the examples people are bringing up to rag on the SEAL's come from the fact that they're fundamentally a frogman unit that has now been re-purposed into desert warriors. I'm not sure how helpful all those weeks of SCUBA training are when you're fighting in the arid mountain environments.

When I was trying to join to become a corpsman, the recruiter told me they had too many, and that I'd probably get stuck in another job until one opens. Promptly told him thanks for his time, and got the hell out of dodge before I made a bad decision.

youtube.com/watch?v=Ee20ZBedevk

>they were/are really supposed to be a naval recon & demo unit
well no shit. if they had just stuck to that you probably wouldn't be hearing about any of this nonsense.
>it's understandable where the "legend" comes from
for them supposedly being these superhuman elite operators, you sure do cut them a lot of slack.
I don't necessarily blame any of those guys for what they (foolishly) sometimes get tasked with doing or how the greater public chooses to put them on a pedestal - a lot of that is out of their control even if they make no effort to avoid it.
What I can critique them for is falling for their own exaggerated PR (or "legend" as you say) because they should absolutely know better.

>You do kinda have to be an arrogant piece of shit to think that you can do the kind of things frogmen are expected to accomplish.

BS. What about other frogmen, like brits, french, german... They're not arrogant like the seals are.
And they also pretty much only fight in arid mountain environments, same as everyone. Not much underwater operation. See the 2 french frogmen killed couple of weeks ago.

Seems more like there is a real cultural problem with navy seals.

Then why even have the officers?

Why even have leadership?

I'm also in the Navy in an enlisted-led field where 90% are E5s and I would bitch slap any officer who tried to outsource his authority and responsibility.

Yes, sir. Here's the smart, experienced recommendation. Now do your job and say "very well" so we can make it happen.

Every time the SEALs keep doubling down on these goat herders (which sounds familiar to what happenes to Bravo-2-0, who ALSO didn't have goat herders) the less professional, intelligent, and more spineless the organization looks as a whole.

I totally forgot David Koresh was in this. Neat.

SAS are just as cocky and full of shit as seals

Gonna repost this shit.
>Murphy should have never been leading that op cause he shot a guy in the chest in training. Should have had his bird pulled for that. But Os get special treatment.
>He was told that he shouldn't do the op by Damneck. Ignores that. Fair enough.
>Then he is told the minimum requirement to do the op is 6 guys. Ignores that cause they are SDV.
>Is told that roughly half the recce teams are soft compromised. Have a plan for that. They don't. They didn't even bring any way of restraining them.
>They bring insufficient comms when told comms was a bitch.
>They don't bring a belt fed. One of the teams biggest strengths.
>They bring a unsanitized labtop in the field.
>On insertion the bird cuts the ropes. Should have been a instant abort. They don't.
>They don't have helos flying in the area before hand. They essentially fly right to their insertion.
>When soft compromised. They don't have a clue what the fuck to do. Then they release the fucking dudes instead of tying them to a tree. Or taking their shoes, Bringing them to extract.

>The most telling thing was a Damneck 06 say "The good thing about Murphy being killed is we could give him the MOH instead of the court martial he deserved."

Look at the source material- Army and Marine SOF units draw from infantry units. SEALS draw from...squids. SEALS today are also not the SEALs of yore. Prior to 2006, there was no SO rating. All SEALS prior to then started in other ratings, submitted application packets, went through the grueling selection process, and eventually earned their trident if they made it all the way through. They would then have to shift over to one of the ‘parent’ ratings, to remain competitive in the USN advancement system. The result of all of this is, it was a brutal Darwinian process that always selected for the best. There were a lot fewer SEALS back then, too. Info from the 70s through 90s is scarce, but it looks like they did a lot of intel gathering, some black bag jobs, and some miscellaneous stuff in Grenada and Panama. Missions lasting 24 to 48 hours, at most.

Now, SEAL is just another navy rating. Their standards are fixed and known, allowing applicants to game the system. There are more operators, of a universally lower quality than their predecessors. Meanwhile, the other SOF units continue with their proven recruitment and selection processes, and I believe that their operators can be cycled back to regular units if they become unfit for SOF operations.

Anyhow, this is based on vague memories from a few books I read almost 2 decades ago, plus a few conversations I had with various former operators I was stationed with at various times. It’s not quite a complete ass-pull, but I may have gotten a few butt hairs in the frame.

That's because they can cash the checks their egos write.

Tell that to McNabb and Chris Ryan.

Read up on how Bravo Two Zero never happened. Being found by goat herders is the code word for fucking up royally during an op.

You'd think with the number of goat herders getting highly trained recce operators killed the military would at least make an SOP, or a training event, or case study about what to do.

What I don't get is why didn't they force the two farmers to follow them to the EP then cut them loose on their way out?

"Just go undesignated seaman bro, then you can see all the rates firsthand and pick which one you want!"

they dont even show in the movie how the taliban saw them land in the helicopter and watched them climb the mountain to get to the OP

Or why the guy who voted "kill em" didn't say "fuck that shit" smoked them, then carried on with the mission with cowards who vote on morality issues and won't tell a soul after the op.

Because there were. No. Farmers.

He's referring to how the SEALs recruit civillians not from serving military.

Even if they did pull guys from within the Navy only, none would have an infantry background. Except for some FMF corpsmen, but even they sham and spend most of their time staring at dicks.

They voted?
Been a while since I saw the movie. But isn't there supposed to be a squad leader who says listen to what I say and fuck off?

I was attacked by 20 insurgents. What do you mean, how did I fight 50 insurgents off? Battling alone against 80 insurgents was difficult. Only a real hero like me could've fought off 100 insurgents.

Yup.

But making a bad decision that gets people killed is easier to stomach if they talk about how conflicted they were about it and how they all bear SOME responsibility (and therefore no one bears ANY responsibility) even if it makes them look like moral cowards and their leaders look like spineless figureheads.

>McNabb and Ryan

So two fiction authors with no understanding of the SAS. Got ya.

Home playing, combat experienced Insurgents are a lot more on a level playing field when the super duper trained western forces don't have air/artillery/intelligence support than you think. When it turns into a simple gun battle it can go either way.

While I don't doubt their underwater prowess, the problem lies with their command insisting that SEALs get a piece of the SpecOps pie, regardless of what their actual application is.

That was the problem at Desert One in Iran, and what was the catalyst for USSOCOM; everybody wanted to be involved, and weren't used to working together, and in some cases, (bravely) attempted missions outside their capabilities.

If SEALs are best in the water, keep them there.

If by that you mean SAS sergeants in the 1980s, then yes. Zero understanding of the SAS.

Any SF before 2000 was just a rag tag boys club with nepotism being the key recruitment factor.

>sof dick rider

Fucking hero worshipping cuck.

>mfw my beloved grayon eaters told this new ussocom to fuck off and eat a bag of dicks on their way out when they wanted a marine unit that would ultimately not answer to a marine officer

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Nope. If you'd said SBS I'd agree.
source:pulled their pints in my teenage years

If by that you mean red headed step child of larger services with slower promotion rates and old school hazing before post 9/11 SOCOM money, career climber politician officers, and 18X contracts.

In the age of killing Pablo, the Iranian Embassy siege, and Iran-Contra/Russian Afghanistan.

>mfw they came crawling back when "we're all special because we're muhreenz" doesn't get you a piece of that sweet spec ops funding.

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Didn't say Navy. But you're right, why does the Navy conduct operations in landlocked countries? Retarded.

>Plan SR mission
>Insert via helo with multiple false insertion sites (hurr)
>Go into Indian country with part of your plan being knowing you won’t have any comms to call for help/ISR to watch your ass.
>A million other things.
SR is one of those mission sets where mission planning is critical to your survival. The fact you would not only insert via helo, but you would plan false insertions, is retarded when your primary objective is to remain undetected; the Marines literally had literally planned on having their SNOT hike into the area for that exact reason.

>came crawling back
>totally not a direct order from secdef in 05
whatever you say, bud

Because of mission creep and vying for missions justifying their budget.

All so people who sit in the Pentagon have a chance at a star or two on their collar.

Horseshit.

>secdef micromanages a force to that degree

Keep shifting the buck. The Corps caved because they were being left out funding-wise and Fallujah wasn't the millenial Pacific Theatre they had hoped.

>the corps caved
yeah, after a private meeting between rumsfeld, hagee and whoever the fuck was commanding socom
>muh special ops funding
and that piece largely goes to marsoc while poaching good men for a unit who's role is arguably filled with other units already a part of socom
it was a power move by socom because they were still asspained about the corps telling them to fuck off back in the 80s

>muh private meeting with the illuminati
>SOCOM was way more willing to split their funding more ways and have to deal with the MC's special breed of autism

The sgtmaj of MARSOC was a motorpool POG because the MC tried to jump through it's asshole to get in on the SOCOM funding and gutted Force Recon to do it.

Medics. They have trouble recruiting medics. There's a neverending stream of people with civilian medical credentials willing to work in military hospitals for the benefits. There's a waiting list a literal year long to become a US military nurse or doctor, but they literally cannot get enough combat medics.

The worst is probably the USAF's PJs. Pararescue was all well and good back in the day when planes and helicopters actually got regularly shot down, and they still train to those standards, but nowadays they're the perennially understaffed, overworked, often-killed SOF that has probably the shittiest job in the military.

SEALs and Delta and Rangers spend 95% of their time waiting around, exercising, sitting about until they're needed. PJs don't get time off. They get deployed with absolutely sickening frequency, to spend eight months in the desert where they sit in a small room next to the airfield for twelve hours a day. They cannot leave that room. They aren't ALLOWED to leave that room. And maybe zero to as many as six times a day they get a loud-ass siren in their ear, have to sprint to the helicopter, and fly out to an active firefight to grab someone in such a shitty state that they'll be dead within two hours if they're not in surgery. We're talking "stepped on a landmine and missing most of their leg" levels of injury, and PJs have to keep that sorry fucker alive until they get back, then get right back in their box and do it again, knowing that some random lazyeyed goatfucker with Parkinson's would have enough time to put an RPG through their helicopter in the time it takes to get a patient onboard. Every single day for eight months.

All they get out of it is a modest signing bonus and EMT training. Why the fuck would anyone who got suckered into that job EVER reenlist unless they had balls of titanium, when they could just join the SEALs and get infinitely more pussy, book deals, and medals?

>he typed this
lol!

>mfw all thats left is 1st force and all three recon battlaions are understrength and have been since marsoc started
>ussocom was willing to deal with grayon eater autism
absolute madmen

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>muh 2% advancement rate, no reenlistment bonus super critical MOS

Laughs in terminal HMSN.

Wonderful post! I’m going to assume you’re trolling, because anybody who manages to be this wrong unironically probably needs to be reminded to breathe.

The sof units of pre-y2k depended on rigorous selection methods, brutal qualification standards, and constant testing of the will and capabilities of the members. Funding was always problematic, which fostered a spirit of innovation in the face of adversity. This is a good quality to have, because shit always happens. Now, sof gets virtually unlimited funding. SEALs, in particular, have turned their spec war people into just another rating, with uniform standards across the board. Basically, they train to the test. Pass the test, get the pin, walk out the door into reality and die because the test doesn’t cover every contingency that happens in combat. They’re cookbook operators.

Thank for service, Mr Kyle.

To preface this I always speak highly of AFSOC as a whole, but I don’t know what the fuck you’re going on about.

>SEALs and Delta and Rangers spend 95% of their time waiting around, exercising, sitting about until they're needed.
Literally retarded and wrong.

>PJs don't get time off.
Everyone gets time off.

>They get deployed with absolutely sickening frequency, to spend [x] months in the desert
Welcome to the rest of SOF

>where they sit in a small room next to the airfield for twelve hours a day. They cannot leave that room.
Like any other dust off

>They aren't ALLOWED to leave that room.
Uh, huh

And maybe zero to as many as six times a day they get a loud-ass siren in their ear, have to sprint to the helicopter, and fly out
Yup

>to an active firefight
No

>to grab someone in such a shitty state that they'll be dead within two hours if they're not in surgery. We're talking "stepped on a landmine and missing most of their leg" levels of injury, and PJs have to keep that sorry fucker alive until they get back
Valid, it’s their job. It’s also the job of SOAR flight medics, and conventional flight medics.

>then get right back in their box and do it again, knowing that some random lazyeyed goatfucker with Parkinson's would have enough time to put an RPG through their helicopter in the time it takes to get a patient onboard. Every single day for eight months.
Once again, just like anyone else doing the same job.

AFSOC in general are some of the most proficient and humble dudes to be around - their entire purpose for existing is to enable everyone else, and they’re awesome at it. Just saying you’re blowing shit wildly out of proportion.

oy vey never forget the six million insurgents

>because they were in the mountains, not in the water
>wearing mechanix gloves

The navy could probably not take in corpsmen for a year and still be over manned for the rate.

Who will stare at my dick before stabbing me 16 times for a blood draw if not some new corpsman?

>PJs don't get time off. They get deployed with absolutely sickening frequency,
GarandThumb doesn't

they sent in several choppers all around the area during insertion to mock drop points. Doubt they got a location from the drop unless they gambled on which mock drop was the right one.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Red_Wings#Insertion_of_SEAL_team,_compromise,_and_attack

No location. But they did tip off they were there and then proceeded to insert almost directly on the drop point.

Then stayed on mission despite missing 2 check-ins.

What if they sent people to all the drops

why? different colored berets dude lol

Didn't serve there myself ( I was OIF), but have JFO buddy that did. Kunar and Nangarhar provinces. For awhile he and his JTAC held the record for the most ordinance in a single TIC.

There was 30 of them, but they were facing nearly 200+ taliban. Turned into a three day battle.

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SOAR is Army
SWCC is air force

What the fuck are you on about

This is actually a really good point.

The problem is theyve coasted on that legend for decades whilst going to shit.

>tfw id rather trust Army SF divers.

>under armour underroos

Why are all of you so hopelessly coping over rage?

If you read nearly true life memoirs of an operater it's always a goat herd that compromises the mission.
I'm sure goat herder is a euphemism is "we fucked up"

i dont understand why they didnt just make the civs march with them till they at least got comms up and knew a bird was on the way.