I'm not a wehraboo but why did the Nazis cuck the Kriegsmarine so hard and refuse to utilize them to their full...

In the words of the commander of the Kriegsmarine, the only thing they could do with the amount of ships and state of their equipment was "lose with some dignity". The Kriegsmarine was fucked from the start.

Raeder said that but then he also approved Rheinübung, going against Hitler's orders. Throwing two valuable surface ships into a frenzy. The Kriegsmarine had no chance because there were so few large ships and even putting everything into U-boats only comes with hindsight and even then it still doesn't change the war one the Allies ASW capabilities improve.

No matter what scenario is offered, Germany cannot win the Battle of the Atlantic and they cannot win the war as a whole.

There was no way in fuck the Kriegsmarine would have ever been able to successfully take on either the Royal Navy or the USN face to face. WW1 was their only chance at doing so and even then their u boat strategy only did so much. It is one of the reasons why they emphasized hit and runs so much, not to mention all of the resources the Wehrmacht/Heer and to an extent the Luftwaffe were using as well as the dumbass wonder weapons that while interesting in theory and for some groundbreaking were too little too late by 1943/1944. Also the NSDAP was filled to the brim with infighting and basically every branch trying to one up the other, the Kriegsmarine got rather cucked in that matter, especially after the “invincible” Bismarck sank and the only carrier Germany ever had not even being fully finished or utilized. Simply put even during the times of the kaisers the Kriegsmarine just simply wasn’t focused as much as the land and air forces, even with the u boats.

They did build submarines. The problem was that they couldn't stand up to anti-submarine tactics once adopted.

Because they started the war about 10 years before Plan Z would have finished. UBoat fleet was projected to be at 300 boats in order to have a decisive effect at the start of a war, they only got to 300 boats around '43.

Have a theory but not a ton of data to support this:

Goering convinced Hitler that naval power was redundant because of air power and advised him to go all-in on the air war.

>what the he'll were the Nazis doing with paratroopers otherwise
>after Crete, Hitler suspended all paratroop operations. What other ops could a land army have had?

Imagine if they put all of the resources from the tirpitz and Bismarck into guided rocket u boats

>They should have instead focused on anti ship missiles
Stupid Hitler, all he had to do was build an Arkbird.

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The Royal Navy.

Well considering the role the Kaiser's navy played in the Communist Revolution of 1918, I'd say they'd have some justification in making such statements.

Eh, if they would have gotten the Type XXI out it would have been a different game.

If all the R&D of the useless surface shipping had been reinvested in areas the Germans could have achieved technological superiority. All the waste on the Bismarck, Admiral Hippers, and Pocket Battleships, use that to build Tigers or Panthers, FW190s, Type XXI's, research the Ta-154, Vampir, STG44, and the wireguided anti-air and shipping missiles and you have a vastly different war, maybe one the Krauts could have won (or stalemated).

Basically the Nazis were dumb and poorly utilized their very limited resources instead of spamming decent things that worked and mass production.

Imagine a world if every single Tiger or Panther had Vampir? Night Operations in 1943?

Short Answer? The Royal Fucking Navy

Long answer? It would have taken decades to build up a force even remotely fit to challenge the Royal Navy, and they'd have to do it completely unmolested, with steel, fuel and oil they didn't have, while not getting fucked on land by the Soviets, and hoping that Churchill didnt just go mad-lad on the krauts and steam the entire Home Fleet into Wilhelmshaven and sink the entire German surface fleet and call it a day.

because the Royal Navy was like 50 times larger and better equipped you fucking retard

did you actually forget that Britain existed? how the fuck do you do that?

Not even just that, the Krauts proved in WWI that they didn't have the will to engage the RN in a cataclysmic battle for all the marbles.

If the Germans wanted to win Naval dominance, they had their chance in WWI, and they chickened out.

He got as close as anybody did in the 40s.

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Because in naval warfare you're either first or last.

Because they lost the first World War making it impossible to catch up to the royal Navy

They still would have lost just as hard. Catalina's were keeping them out of the channel, destroyers could hunt them down after the first little while because they had sonar instead of the WWI ex-US destroyers, and then there's the escort carriers they started using after later on.

At best they'd have been an annoyance.

Because they built a couple of the best battleships in the world at the time with Bismarck and Tirpitz and didn't do much before sinking.

The submarines were more effective, and cheaper to replace.

I firmly believe even with zero information from Germany Jack Northrop would have gotten a flying wing in the air.

>why

because der fueher had a progressive mental disease and became increasingly fucked up as he got older & ww2 dragged on

hh had a phenomenal start but then his problems caught up with him and blyat...
\

Where's the space laser?

>der fueher had a progressive mental disease
All the meth didn't help.

Naw, they could have. If they had actually tested their torps before using them Churchill could have died after two non-duds hit the carrier he was on. And the RN would have had much heavier losses in the first year.

Add them waiting for general combat to deploy magnetic mines so the Brits didnt have countermeasures when they were massively deployed and both the Home Squadron and the entire BEF would have been functionally destroyed at Dunkirk.

They could have not worried about Vichy and seized the entire French fleet after Fall Blau and had comparable forces to the RN in the European theater.

Those are just decisions without allocating a single hour of production differently and would have put the RN on the ropes immediately.

So if they did that they would already have broken the Brits sea control all around the UK, forcing a brit surrender after the destruction of the BEF and massive losses of the home squadron and the fall of Singapore and decimation of the Asiatic squadron.

Get Franco on board to allow the Whermacht to seize Gibralter and now the Med is an Axis lake and the Brits have lost an entire fleet without a single ship going to GQ in that theater.

Again, all decisions without allocating production differently. You change production and it gets even easier.

>All the meth didn't help.

It wasn't just the Meth, it was the cocktail of uppers and downers, poop pills and anti-poop pills.

Basically Hitler was on all the drugs, and everyone was afraid of him so you got really dumb shit going on.

Same thing led to Stalin's death (unless you believe the Jews killed him, which is somewhat likely). Everyone was so afraid, they wouldn't check on him.

Just what asshole did you pull this out of?

They lost HALF THEIR FUCKING SURFACE FLEET in Norway in 42, including damn near every last destroyer they had, one of their precious Pocket Battleships (with the other being put out of action for almost a year) and had absolutely no capacity for invading Britain.

The French Fleet wouldn't have helped, cause the Brits took out all the good ships they had in 39 at Mers al, and Touloun proved the frenchies wouldn't let them have their ships anyway.

They took a fair beating in the early years, sure, but the Home Fleet was still intact, which had 3 carriers, 7 battleships, 12 light and heavy cruisers and a fuck load of destroyers that would have sent every last barge the germans had to the bottom of the channel. And their best weapon, the Uboats, were fucking useless for an invasion.

Lol you're actually retarded. What is the relevance of what happened in our timeline in 42 to an alternative timeline in 39?

All the shit I described would have been done in 1940.

>That's not what happened in real life so it is literally impossible anything could have been done differently!!!!

Literally you

Your little werhaboo fantasy relies on a lot of speculation and things that simply were not going to happen, even if Hitler had a magic time machine.

French Navy? Nope, again their most modern ships were sent to the bottom of Oran in 39, while the rest were scrapped in Dakar when the Germans came for them.

Brits beat them to magnetic mines, the torps wouldn't have been discovered at any point before, and literally none of what you imagined would have a made a damn bit of difference because....

THE ROYAL NAVY OUTNUMBERED THE KRIEGSMARINE 20-1 FOR THE ENTIRE WAR

Had Churchill not been so worried about the med, he could have zerg rushed Wilhemshaven with the Homefleet and sent all of the Kreigsmarine to the bottom.

>seized the entire French fleet after Fall Blau and had comparable forces to the RN
Haha what

I saw this thing for real last year. they have it in the udvar-hazy museum (same place that has the Enola Gay). it's chopped into three pieces and the paintjob is, IIRC, some postwar bullshit. but you can actually look at it, which is pretty cool. it is an absolutely beautiful machine.

Your facility with stuffing your fingers in your ears speaks to a predilection toward allowing all your orifices to be similarly filled.

Having Magnetic Mines and having countermeasures to magnetic mines are not the same thing, Einstein. It took three months for the Brits to develop reasonably effective methods of dealing with them, so reserving them for a moment when no such caution would be exercised would have have turned Dunkirk into a disaster from which the British Army would have never recovered, and the RN would have been severely injured by.

You state they could have never fixed their torpedo issue. What is the basis for this inane conjecture? It was a single problem, trivial really, caused by the influence of pressure fluctuations on the fuse when the submarine died. A lieutenant and two assistants cleared it and devised a solution in less than a week. So, what do you base that claim on? The fluids of dubious origin leaking from your sadly prolapsed anus?

You make no mention of a coup de main for Gibralter, and the effect that would have had. Wise, considering the weakness of your position.

And the French ships ported in Toulouse in Marsailles, including modern well protected battleships, were not scuttled until months after the fall of France and could have easily been seized before, but weren't for political reasons.

So now your lovely seaborne sodomy club has been brutalized in the Channel (including an almost certain loss of a BB and CV) in the morning stages, and annihilated off Dunkirk by mines you have no countermeasures for yet, as the Nazis did not drop any literally on your island for you to reverse engineer. You have also lost your entire med fleet, your asiatic squadron is fucked, and you don't have an army anymore.

>you
>your

>when the submarine died

heh

They did better than people think. Though the bulk of the mainline Kriegsmarine was taken out very early by the Royal Navy (which even after the naval buildups of the US, USSR, and Japan AND its own disarmament was still the largest and strongest navy in the world) but German naval elements and submarines in particular, with Italian help, kept Anglo-Franco-American ships dogged down for years and inflicted losses disproportionate to how heavily they were outnumbered.

>kept Anglo-Franco-American ships dogged down for years and inflicted losses disproportionate to how heavily they were outnumbered.

yeah, but they didn't really contribute anything meaningful to the war effort. they didn't defeat the enemy navies and they didn't prevent the enemy navies from entering germany's territorial waters and carrying out operations. they were just a dangerous nuisance.

>Scrambles to find typos because he doesn't have anything close to a rebuttal

Confirmed for being blown out so hard your stepdad's cock flew out your ass. Pretty sad you still live with him since you're 40. Sorry your life turned out this way, faggot. I know you're disappointed by it.

Not the guy who was replying to you, but
>if everything went the KM's way they'd've been able to beat the RN!
is not a particularly compelling argument.

Even then, best case, Berlin gets nuked in August '45.

>I'm not a wehraboo but why did the Nazis cuck the Kriegsmarine so hard and refuse to utilize them to their full potential?

Because losing battleships in combat harms national prestige. Its easier to hide them somewhere in norway.

the allies were extremely good at convoy sailing and developed tactics and had the platforms to track and destroy subs

Where did I say anything about it going all their way, cum-breath? No. They make 4 different decisions and then fate can do whatever it wants but the RN is ass fucked.

I'm not even getting into if they deploy the schnorkel earlier since they could have fielded them basically from day one of the war, or if they had produced more Condors instead of 110s and actually given them decent bomb bays, if they would have stockpiled their Fritz X ordnance and used it in a single decisive strike instead of letting it peter in and lose its surprise value, on and on.

Meanwhile you haven't presented a single argument showing why any of the changes I suggested wouldn't have a grevious effect on the RN. I assume because you suffered a tragic head injury as a child that left your brain enfeebled and your face hideously deformed.

tight resources and retarded leadership

I'm honestly fascinated by how seethingly invested you are in "your" Kriegsmarine beating "his" Royal Navy. I've never seen this precise brand of autism before.

>All the waste on the Bismarck, Admiral Hippers, and Pocket Battleships, use that to build Tigers or Panthers, FW190s, Type XXI's, research the Ta-154, Vampir, STG44, and the wireguided anti-air and shipping missiles and you have a vastly different war, maybe one the Krauts could have won (or stalemated).

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No arguments, more coping. Why do you keep replying? Why are you obsessed? Seriously why. It's weird

Cause they fuckin weaksauce

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>you
Jow Forums isn't one person, user.

Sure thing samefag. You know it's like pottery you see it in every thread, some guy gets his shit wrecked then tries to stuff his intestines back up his ass with some limp dick "oh, uh, you're like sooooooo invested in this" line. Just pretend to be retarded dude. Given what I've seen it's a way better fit for you than whatever you're trying now.

PS- I don't even give a shit about the UK or Germany in any time period, ever, but call me a weeb if it makes your asshole hurt less.

Seriously though stop posting without adding anything constructive. It's like you're obsessed and just can't help yourself.

You're fucking weird dude

That one's definitely on me for assuming the concept of "not every user is actually the same person" wouldn't be lost on the guy apparently
conflating the British navy of eighty years ago with some dude he was arguing with on a Malaysian flyfishing forum.

Sentence doesn't even make sense. What is being conflated with what? And why do you keep posting? Why can you not stop yourself? Do you suffer from a mental illness? I'm working a slow night shift and have nothing to do, why are you spamming some thread desperate to not look like a tool at like 3 in the morning? Why are you so obsessed with this? I have to know

evenm with all stolen money they were to dumb to finish own ideas.

The Nazis gave them every opportunity, it’s just that they sucked. Sorry.

>use that to build Tigers or Panthers, FW190s, Type XXI's, research the Ta-154, Vampir, STG44, and the wireguided anti-air and shipping missiles and you have a vastly different war, maybe one the Krauts could have won (or stalemated).
literally none of your wunderwaffen meme shit would matter in deciding the war's outcome because the Axis still wouldn't be able to dish out hits where it mattered thanks to the important targets being too far away, they'd still be gimped by their laughably shitty logistical abilities, and they'd still be dwarfed by the combined might of several superpowers. Anybody who thinks that the Axis could possibly win long-term in a war against the combined powerhouses of the UK/US/USSR is beyond delusional, you simply do not comprehend the sheer amount of bodies and materiel that was stacked against your meme regimes.

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They didn't?

Ironically, prioritization of the surface fleet over the U-boats cucked Donitz out of his chance to cut off Britain in 1940.

The only surface vessels Germany had any business in constructing would be troop transports for the trip across to Britain.

Also, the Luftwaffe should have prioritized air-to-ship training as well.

He might be that autist who comes into Bismarck threads to screech about how the RN couldn't claim the kill because she was scuttled.

He *might* have a bit of a point with the Panthers/fighters - it wouldn't have been sufficient to turn the tide, of course, but it may have changed how long it took to get to Berlin.

Dude why didn't they just build silkworms lol

It would have taken decades of buildup to even get on the same level as the Royal Navy and the US Navy in numbers, which Hitler pissed away haphazardly in 1939, and that isn’t even taking into account the experience the US and Britain had in naval warfare compared to Germany. Also in Göring literally cucked the Kriegsmarine in favor of the Luftwaffe by convincing Hitler to focus even less on the Kriegsmarine, so they focused all of their efforts into land and air power while barely giving any attention to the sea, which really wouldn’t have changed much once anti submarine warfare became more refined but probably could have caused some damage. But really Germany was on thin ice after 1939, once the ‘40s started they were just delaying the inevitable due to the lack of resources needed to fight and win such a war, barring developing nuclear weapons but even then they just didn’t have enough unlike the Manhattan Project.
Popping opioids like they were tic tacs and being the head of a party filled with backstabbing and borderline India tier corruption didn’t help that situation either. Hitler was a walking pharmacy by the time he committed sudoku/fled to Argentina.

The 'Marine never had any potential to begin with.

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>If the Germans wanted to win Naval dominance, they had their chance in WWI, and they chickened out.
they couldnt have done it then either. had the german main force done anything but run at jutland they would have been wiped out, might have taken a few british battleships with them although given that the british battleships were much better armored than the battlecruisers and had retained the anti flash hatch covers and safer ammo handling practises its unlikely, but the one thing that can be regarded as fairly certain is that the high seas fleet could not defeat the grand fleet in a full fleet action

Exaggerations. Churchill was on far more than Hitler. After the bombing Hitler survived he was on painkillers, barbituates and amphetamines, but your portrayal is inaccurate.
>Jews killed Stalin
Unlikely considering the favour and power they curried under him. They were purged after his death

>Luftwaffe

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