So the US has been carrying out cyber attacks on Iran. That's not surprising. Is it an act of war though...

So the US has been carrying out cyber attacks on Iran. That's not surprising. Is it an act of war though? Do cyber attacks on a country justify an amred response? What's the threshold?

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The US and Iran have been at war since 1979, so you're asking all the wrong questions already.

Stuxnet it's been going on for a long ass time

i expected this. but actually im wondering why they would bother revealing their hand if no airstrikes came through.

sounds like a lack of communication, the intel agencies went ahead and sabotaged the air defenses but the bombers didnt fly and now the sub-human shitskin iranians will patch their systems with the help of actual computer literate humans from russia

The whole thing has been a complete mess really.

yeah its bad news for a lot of reasons. the air defense exploits will probably be studied by the russians and patched. its a strategic loss against the russians, norks, syrians, and whoever else uses the russian air defense weapons. we just gave up a great advantage for nothing.

hopefully it wont cost us human assets. i wouldnt be surprised if these are closed systems and some traitor iranian-CIA asset had to plant the virus manually

or worse, maybe we figured out a way to compromise the systems at the source in the factories in russia, and now our assets there will be discovered. im sure the russians have already sent their intel guys to iran figure out wtf happened

At this point the risk of conflict is higher than ever so the US can try to unfuck their own mess. If they blow up all of the SAMs the Russians won't be able to find any secrets, this is true 5D chess.

Based incomprehensible US approach to this conflict

>The whole thing has been a complete mess really.
tHIS IS THE us fORIEGN pOLICY ON A NUTSHEL

>Do cyber attacks on a country justify an amred response?
Yes they do. Precedent has been made by Israel few weeks ago when they bombed a hacker in Palestine.

if i was military leadership or intelligence leadership i would be furious that we basically threw a zero-day first strike advantage into the garbage

I think they're probably quite frustrated by Trump in general.

It's not Trumps fault that elements of the retarded MIC flew into Iranian air space and tried to provoke a war.

Ultimately (if that's the case, which I doubt), it is his fault. When you're POTUS you have ultimate responsibility.

The internet is not real life.

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>you have ultimate responsibility

If someone commits a crime, the president is to blame. High IQ neocon opinion.

>tfw US hacked Irans missles and shot down thier own drone for israel

Have you heard of a concept known as the chain of command? The leader of the military is responsible for the actions it takes, even if those actions aren't what they requested.

Don't post strawman shit like that implying it means fucking anything.

>Shit goes well
>BASED TRUMP 5D CHESS AMAZING
>Shit goes wrong
>IT'S NOT HIS FAULT EVERYONE ELSE DID TO MAKE HIM LOOK BAD

k

If you think the President has totalitarian control of every person in the military and bears responsibility for their actions, you're a moron.

Israel can fly their own drones around Iran.

Those two things are not the same. Does he have totalitarian control? No. Is he responsible? Yes.

As an example, the captain of a ship goes to prison if a ship has a collision, even if he's asleep while it happens. He has responsibility. Does he have "totalitarian control"? No, but it's his responsibility that everything is done properly as he's the one that sets the rules.

Which is the same for Trump. Did he do what you're saying? No. Did he set in place a situation where it could happen? Yes. Is this simple enough for you?

If you don't have totalitarian control over the military you can't bear full responsibility for it you braindead fuck. That means that things happen without our knowledge, opinion or consent. How stupid are you neocons?

>Implying anyone wants shit to "go well" when it means starting another war

Desu a RCE 0day of that impact is probably more valuable than some dude who is compromising hardware at the manufacturing end..

You can always fund more moles. Can't always discover more software flaws without a serious investment into research

The military isn't a democratic institution. The president DOES have full control of the military. He is literally commander in chief

Holy fuck are you incapable of fucking reading? The President isn't pressing the buttons but is setting in motion everything that leads to buttons being pressed (and can choose to move people in and out of an area as he sees fit). He is responsible for everything the military does as he is in control of everything.

It's the same for the head of state of every other nation. Are you really this fucking dense?

Hahaha how on earth is a cyber attack on weapons systems possible hahaha like lmao nigga un plug your rocket from the internet, nigga just cut the cable lmao.

There's a difference between reality and your delusional myopic view of the world. In no way does the president have full control of the military when his appointments must be confirmed by the legislative branch of government,

The Congress shall have Power...] To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

If a cyberattack takes out military assets or civilian infrastructure then it's the same as bombing.

The US probably didnt disable the weapons or anything. What we were probably after:
>did Iranian telemetry interpret the drone as being in their territory? If it shows that it was genuinely believed to be in their turf the US can continue to say it was a """mistake""" to provide a de-escalation path.
>how long did it take to go from "we see an object" to "kill". In short, how long did it go from "detect-->identify-->authorize (and WHO authorized it-->launch-->kill-->retrieve"
>how did it percieve the object. Did it percieve its RCS as smaller than it should have been? At what point did the Iranians properly identify it as American? Did they know at all? Did they know it was a global hawk? Can unknown launch site locations be gained?

Such info would give the US a greater ability to understand
>quality of iranian systems
>speed of iranian operations
>potential sites

Thats all low-hanging telemetry and communications fruit as opposed to some blue screen of death.

>Do cyber attacks on a country justify an amred response?
If that were the case China would be starting nuclear war every day.

Cyber attacks on Iran are nothing new. Nothing is going to happen.

Cyber attacks may not be new, but talking about them is.

>Do cyber attacks on a country justify an amred response? What's the threshold?

threatmap.checkpoint.com/ThreatPortal/livemap.html

well shit, it looks like ww3 has been going on for some time now

>but talking about them is.

There isn't really much to say. Iran has being conducting cyber attacks on the states for years, if it was deemed an act of war, Iran would have being invaded long ago.

Now if Iran fired a anti ship missile at a merchant vessel, then there will be war. Until then, it's just political gesturing.

honestly this would have at least been a good revenge. if we were going to trash our zero day, we at least should have launched their missiles randomly at iranian targets to cause chaos for the lulz


OPs news story could have read "iranian air defenses mysteriously down 5 of their own MiG fighter jets"

Desu doing something like that likely wouldn't burn the zero day

what does RCE mean? and your post makes sense. sucks. what makes it hurt extra hard is the fact its a trashed advantage on multiple adversaries. we might have needed it or could have used it elsewhere. or saved for a super special emergency like a nuke facility bomb run. if there are other existing exploits, we can be sure the iranians and russians will be looking extra hard to patch them down

why cant we just bomb these fuckers i dont understand. i want iranian assets destroyed and i want it now

Thats my point. We probably werent going after something so extreme to burn a day 0 advantage. Everything we'd probably want to know (interpreted data, command chain, locations of other networked AA) may have been within reach of a pretty modest attack. Save the good stuff when you need it; this is like trawling for IP addresses and internal directory locations (not even opening them) as opposed to ransomwaring a computer.

Because we don't have money to fight wars for Israel.

this, can someone explain how we can disable missile systems with a cyber attack at will? is their shit plugged into a network? or did we do some ultra hacker l33t hacking like take advantage of some random piece of code in the way its computer picks up radar signals and somehow send a fake radar signal with an intelligence drone that uploaded some malware

why do you assume it has to be a war? fucking drop some bombs and be done with it we arent going to go to war. we are just going to blow up their fucking cuckboats to dickslap their shitty navy into compliance so they think twice about mining some fucking oil tankers

>>not wanting to pet the monkey
Be careful, it bites.

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yes. as stated in the pic op sent, it was on weapons systems. there was a case i forgot the name of where malware found its way into the us government. its probably in preperation for war, as it is on iranian weapons systems. not an act of war but probably a precursor, ngl.

Remote code execution. Basically the most severe (and therefore most valuable) form of vulnerability where a system can be owned by anybody at the press of a button without any need for an "inside man" or any sort of other intelligence work.

Missile systems and radar linked to command network. Network must have been compromised at some point. It could just be Mohammed plugging his iphone 3 into a windows xp pc to charge at a radar command fort or something. Alternatively, Iran has a number of military sats iirc, i wouldnt be surprised if we picked up transmissions and did something that way.

Iirc in the 90s there were ways to hack computers through printers, if theres a will there's a way.

>just drop bombs
>not a war

Literal neocon 80 IQ retard.

Well, certain groups of Americans were saying that alleged Russian hacking was an act of war, so I'd say that yes, this would be considered one as well, but we all know that America doesn't play by the rules they try to force everyone else into.

Praying Mantis in the 80s was over in 1 day user. It was a skirmish, not a war. It also worked and iranian harrasment of kuwaiti/saudi/qatari tankers ended.

>disrupting communications between system parts
>jamming radio and radar signals
>spoofing radio and radar signals
>actually hacking into computer systems to cause trouble

Air defense networks are somewhat complex, there's plenty of ways to affect them somehow.

>That's not surprising. Is it an act of war though?

not really because it didnt happen in the first place
only an idiot will believe that a country had its strategic missile and radar complex CONNECTED ON THE INTERNET

Imagine being such a fucking smoothbrain that you think cyberattacks require an internet connection.

>t. John McCain

As long as it doesn't result in the loss of human life it's all in good fun.

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The Iranians use sams based off of the American rim-66. They aren't Russian

i wont even begin to unpack just how stupid you sound

>closed system
>able to be activated strategically
yeah nah. the problem these days is very few systems are truly closed and an entity like the US govt and its various assets WILL find a way in.
otherwise you're relying on a timer and a lot of luck for things to go wrong when you need them to.
plus the possibility it simply gets found, stopped, and dissected without your ever knowing.

my take on all of this is it was a show of force. right now anything thati sn't an attack on critical infrastructure doesn't get labeled as an act of war and this brings up the US's cyber capability back into the spotlight after years of it seeming like they were keeping quiet.

this is why CEOs and other executive positions get paid so much.
it's why officers make so much more than enlisted.
responsibility.

if some dumb ass soldier goes out on town raping and killing, his CO will be asked how this could happen and why it happened under his command.
the same goes for the guy at the top. part of his job is bearing the weight of the responsibility.

it's not that far fetched. these countries may think their systems aren't connected, and logically they may not be, but technically they may be.
you'd be hard pressed to find any recently built system that isn't itself connected or interacts with devices that are connected, to a large network. and large networks usually touch the internet in some way.
normal net traffic may not be able to "see" the internet, but it's there and there are ways to use that.

>the same goes for the guy at the top. part of his job is bearing the weight of the responsibility.

Yeah, maybe that made sense in 1899 but today it's the reverse. The guy at the top has the power and pull to evade responsibility and pin it on hapless grunts or designated middle management.

>its a strategic loss against the russians, norks, syrians, and whoever else uses the russian air defense weapons.
Pretty sure it's based off of the Rim-job 69.

sorry that you can't comprehend the way the system is designed.

Everyone knows the original design. It's long since been subverted, and is basically propaganda at this point.

you mean 1953

minus the fact that US citizens and foreign leaders will blame trump for any act committed by the US of this nature.
and he has to face up to it. if he said "one of my generals fucked up and hit the wrong button lol" people would flip shit and still blame him.

so what im saying is you're wrong. being responsible doesn't have to mean you take the brunt of the punishment for the deed, in fact it rarely does. it means you take that punishment into your own hands and work to fix it, while standing in the way of any outsiders attacking whoever was truly at fault.

Its likely a Rim-66 iranian copy. Meaning we probably already know damn near everything about the system's electronics, because presumably there are a few systems sitting around in at least the EOD school and research labs for training, r&d, and archival purposes. Presumably we understand the weaknesses of a Shah-era weapons system

no they operate on a separate network completely isolated
the only way you can get access on such network is locally
and by local i mean having someone inside the country using a device like that on a fiber optic cable

BUT
but but but
the nature of fiber optic is such that using any passi mitm device will be instantly recognizable because it will add latency on a previous near zero latency network
it just like stuxnet they needed to have a local access to the network

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>Blame on trump meaning anything

>the rats of the ME did a thing so therefore it’s ok
Yikes

Most cyber infiltrations are followed up by installing a shit-zillion back doors

i thought they bought the S-300 missile system from the russians during the obama years precisely to defend against israel and american attacks on their nuke facilities

so you're saying...
>isolated network
>US somehow conducts strategic cyber attack in a timely fashion
this would mean the US has a ballsy as fuck insider

they didn't even use insiders for stuxnet, they just threw a buncha fuckin USBs with, for its time, a very intelligent worm and let it go.
at this point stuxnet was out of their hands and operated independently. this independent nature is part of how it got caught.
it was set to operate as long as possible undetected with no control.
what just happened is not the same as that at all and had to have some sort of input to say "execute".
it's technically possible that they have a very ballsy traitor that has access to those systems and blindly plugs in shit for the US, but it's more likely there's a connection to the outside. even if it's normally airgapped and they take precautions to scan files crossing networks, that can be leveraged more successfully than a human asset.
idk i just find it very unlikely they have faruq over there doing shady shit in a timely manner to send a message and not remote operations that have found a kink in their network security for these systems.

>it just like stuxnet they needed to have a local access to the network
thats what i was thinking, some local asset is probably on the run or in an iranian torture cell now

yeah but once the enemy knows the system is compromised that is useless. it doesnt matter how many backdoors we left they know we got in so they are going to do a full wipe or refresh and analyze the process very carefully and methodically

not if u wanna be a ninja longterm. if they have actual security experts on their networks, which should be assumed yes just for safety reasons, you want to keep your footprint minimal as fuck.
maybe one machine that gets little interaction like some super old but important unix server sitting around has access maintained and they swim through the network from there, but otherwise i doubt they put a buncha shit down to get back in all over the network. that's messy.

>idk i just find it very unlikely they have faruq over there doing shady shit in a timely manner to send a message a
im sure whatever the local assets did to compromise the systems happened long ago, not the morning of the cancelled attack

for stuxnet, they still relied on local assets to plant dirty USBs around the area of the military bases and nuke facilities

>full wipe
you cant full wipe networks like this. they even theorize stuxnet is still on iranian nuclear systems, they've just found it where it mattered and effectively quarantined it where it has no effect.
critical stuff like military and infrastructure can't be wiped willy nilly. that's why teams make so much fucking money to find this shit and delete it.

>long ago
then why did it go off at such a convenient time?
if they had any control over whatever tools they used then it was through the net.

>Is it an act of war though?

You mean like shooting down an aircraft?

network traffic gets noticed so im betting the exploits happened at a local level similar to stuxnet. probably code that was programmed to remain dormant until called upon to act a certain way remotely

That'd not be a fast turnaround and all the while you'd have zero AA.

Possibly. I have no idea what Iran's server makeup is like so it could be easy, or near impossible to put any good amount of backdoors and/or back doors that won't be found

well patched then. once they install a software update that blocks or outdates the malicious code, the virus can stay there all it wants but it no longer has control over the system

im saying the backdoor was probably planted long ago, in a similar way to stuxnet. maybe a virus laden USB full of jenna jameson porn
was left for some radar operator to fuck around with and it installed a backdoor RAT silently which then remained dormant until we were able to interact with it remotely

How often do you take your computer in for repairs?

can you guys comment on this? you all say iran uses american clone SAMs but i thought they bought the russian system during the obama years? it was all over the news back then, how israel and the US were trying to stop russia from selling it to them. im pretty sure this was part of obongos capitulation to medvedev when he said on the mic "ayo bro just wait to start shit til after da election, ill have more flexibility then ya feel" because we were basically going to trade him non-action in ukraine for holding off on delivering the s300s

never, but if i knew something was wrong with it because international news was posting stories about how someone cyberattacked my computer and the security of my home was now compromised by it, i would probably have it looked over by the guys at geek squad

you can totally craft packets to blend in. for the most part those systems are monitored by heuristics and the red flags invite further scrutiny. if you can avoid the red flags long enough to get around the network you're gucci
i think it's possible that what you say is true, it was planted awhile ago, but it was executed remotely. that remote execution implies some sort of connection over the net.
or the US is REALLY good at predicting the future and set it to a very pertinent timer lol

i assume for someone like the US, Israel, Russia, or China they can find a way through iranian networks just due to the expertise they have on hand.

a patch will stop the exploit but not the malware. also systems behind these types of networks are always "outdated" because you know they work. patching important stuff is finicky due to possible unforeseen effects of the patch.
regardless, they still have to play cleanup after patching, and first you want to know what they exploited to know if your patch is even worth the trouble.

yeah i think this is possible for a lot of iranian systems but im just saying it implies the affected systems are connected in some way to the internet. probably indirectly and probably not known to many, if any, iranians, but there is a connection somewhere.
hell we may have made that connection ourselves, who knows?

if you were mr general of iranian AA systems, wouldnt you have the helpdesk come check it out once international media is reporting you got hacked?

i think you're being a bit sarcastic but just to be clear
geek squad won't help with any real problems, especially if the news is talking about it.
nowadays the best thing to do is unplug from your home network but leave the computer on.
keep the malware running so it's easier to find, anyone who knows what to look for for most malware can find out what it is better that way

>i
yeah. i wouldnt be surprised if government level malware had the ability to remove itself once detected or on command, in an effort to hide all traces and possibly keep the vulnerability alive and unpatched

That makes sense.

Trust me when I say it's not always that easy. I don't mean to ridicule you but you're out of your element here. You can disguise code all sorts of ways and even bake it into core system processes so it'd require a hell of an overhaul. Look at ransomware as a fairly good example.

Now that's a problem to remove and it advertises it's presence. Imagine a program that means to be as low profile and integrated as possible. Even if someone tells you it's hacked it doesn't bring you any closer to having the issue resolved.

even nongovt level malware can self destruct as soon as you begin prodding it.
hacking groups that hack banks and shit have had their stuff disappear as soon as it got prodded, so no doubt the govt can do the same.
eg if you hide your stuff in a hidden directory and then that directory is accessed
if your malware monitors that directory it's an easy thing to say "k kys" to the malware when that happens. in fact if you're thorough i'd say if you can run directly in memory and leave next-to-no trace on disk, then you can just clear yourself from memory directly or more crudely reboot the machine.
no trace left.

if some joe schmo like me has considered methods to do this, no doubt high paid autists have done it.

>what is stuxnet?

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I didn't know John Bolton was on Jow Forums. Wild

Kek

>ctrl+f
>suter
>0/0

Disappointed