The fall in popularity of .45 and other larger callibers can be traced back to the gwouth of women presence in police and military, the only reason 9mm is popular is because of the propaganda impulsed to avoid the rejection of the weaker caliber since it's only purpose is being more manegable by women and manlets.
Would you say that's what forced people to develop the 9mm to be an effective caliber depending on ammunition quality? I remember numerous anecdotes of .45 unironically being superior to the 9mm for many decades before the female presence.
a 45 case is thicker than a 9mm one, what are you talking about?
Henry Powell
Your English sucks Francois
Eli Lewis
.45ACP isn't harder to shoot than 9x19, what the fuck are you talking about?
If you were arguing 9x19 vs .40S&W or even better 10mm Auto, then sure. But .45ACP?
.45ACP was put on the sideline because 9x19 ammo has evolved to the point that it's just as good as the old .45ACP stuff, with much higher mag capacity. While modern .45ACP clearly makes larger wound channels than modern 9x19, the difference is not worth the loss in capacity, grip thickness for double stacks and the rainbowing flight path which requires more training when shooting at unknown distances.
OP is a faggot The fall of .45 is because of magazine capacity and cost of ammunition. Period.
May 6, 2014
FBI Training Division: FBI Academy, Quantico, VA
Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners
The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”) LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings) 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI 9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons) The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons) There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto
You are really invested into this, are your hands that weak?
Caleb Roberts
i own both 9mm and 45 , here we use it for sport shooting always one handed dont ask me why
i found the 45 recoil softer and more comfortable than the 9 mm one handed
Evan Gomez
isnt 9mm much more effective in shorter barrels than 45? please educate me if im wrong
Daniel Davis
Any common pistol caliber can be loaded such that it is effective out of a short barrel.
I think there's a stronger argument for .45 out of a small gun because you're generally giving up less capacity but it's nothing to do with inherent terminal effectiveness. All pistol cartridges suck at killing people.
Jordan Jenkins
if your barrel is long enough cant you do a lot of damage with relatively small bullets?
You want to match the bullet diameter / weight and your barrel length with a powder with an appropriate burn rate.
You've kind of got the right idea. A smaller bullet moving faster will fuck shit up (see 5.56).
But you can have two guns in the same caliber with different length barrels and get them to perform about the same in terms of terminal effectiveness by manipulating what kind and how much powder is used.
Smaller bullets tend to be much more velocity dependent for their terminal effect but simply having a short barrel doesn't mean you can't achieve those velocities (up to a point).
Maybe because you shit up our internet with your commie shitposts?
Caleb Adams
If by slim chance this isn't bait most handgun calibers suck. 45 is good when loaded in big bore, wildcat or in bone crushing 45LC but regular 45 ACP ain't worth its downsides compared to 9MM. This is coming from a guy who is about to carry a 6" 460 Rowland 1911.
.45ACP is relevant today as it was in the Philippines over 100 years ago, doped up brown people tended to not go down when shot with 38spl which is about the same size as a 9mm but about 60% of the energy back then and still now with modern powder. More velocity means more wound channel, but 45ACP hitting bone, like a pelvis or shoulder blade or spine is a huge energy transfer to the target. A broken pelvis means locomotion stops, even if the target is high on opioids, cocaine, pcp, or khat and those people when armed with a knife and mortally wounded can still inflict fatal injuries in the 60 seconds the smaller 9mm takes to do its job on some targets. This is the reason for multiple shots taken by shooters with these lighter calibers. Breaking pelvises is the new triple tap for the doped up target.
Tyler Foster
because statistically speaking, they are
Levi Myers
>A broken pelvis means locomotion stops
stop spreading this meme, you don't lose control of your legs or collapse when shot in the pelvis
Jeremiah Martinez
Because they mostly are.
Elijah Jenkins
>you don't lose control of your legs or collapse when shot in the pelvis
But high velocity missile trauma to the pelvic girdle can inflict even minor damage to gross bone structure which will cause a loss of load bearing capacity either from mechanical failure or simple noceception.
Translation: Shut the fuck up.
Michael Phillips
>You don't lose control of a hydraulic piston when one of the ball joints is blown out. You can still control the muscles but they won't be doing what you want them too anymore.
Charles Ramirez
>The ilium is a large flat bone that forms most of the back wall of the pelvis. The problem is that handgun bullets that hit it would not break the bone but only make a small hole in passing through it: this would do nothing to destroy bony support of the pelvic girdle. The pelvic girdle is essentially a circle: to disrupt its structure significantly would require breaking it in two places. Only a shot that disrupted the neck or upper portion of the shaft of the femur would be likely to disrupt bony support enough to cause the person hit to fall. This is a small and highly unlikely target: the aim point to hit it would be a mystery to those without medical training — and to most of those with medical training. >Fackler ML: “Shots to the Pelvic Area”. Wound Ballistics Review. 4(1):13; 1999.
And why would that happen? Why would a hole in the pelvis somehow make you lose control of the muscles?
Colton Murphy
take your medicine
Matthew Reyes
.45ACP has a weak case web, which is why you can't load it up all that much hotter than the regular pressures. 9mm Luger has a much stronger case web, and can be loaded up to crazy shit like 9mm Major, bringing up 124gr bullets to about ~1500fps, when for .45ACP, you just can't do that, you would need a new case with a much stronger web, known as .45 Super to drive a 230gr bullet to ~1100fps
Wyatt Collins
Oh yeah, a lot of 1911 pistols don't have quite that great case support, which isn't a great combo with a flimsy case head and overall structural strength, not if you want to develop some real power.
Landon Harris
Boomer fudds confirmed for borderline illiterate niggers lmao
>get utterly obliterated by facts and evidence >y-you mad bro? Hilarious and pathetic
Jayden Collins
That cop who shot a nog 30 times with a fuddy-five and failed to kill him would like a word. Also he carries a 9mm now for more capacity lmao, fuddy-five grandpas BTFO
Brayden Ross
retard its simply because of budget limitations
John Hughes
Are 2mm in diameter really going to make a difference in pistol popguns?
Alexander Wilson
>"numerous anecdotes" this thread is obvious bait but there are many people on this board who don't know that the reason 9mm won out is because it's the smallest non-rangequeen ammo the FBI could get its hands on, and they wanted that because they found that
>most officers miss like 90% of their shots anyway even on a good day, and accuracy doesn't even improve much at the range in calm/controlled conditions. >there aren't major differences between the popular pistol calibers until you start getting into ridiculously large rounds normally reserved for dirty harry style revolvers except for range, and range is a non-issue since most shootouts are in urban settings (and even if not, rifles are available in a variety of calibers for a variety of ranges)
combined, it's easy to say that rather than compensating for people not dying instantly when shot, you have to compensate for your agents fucking missing all the time. and the few times they hit, it doesn't really matter with what, either. thus the decision was made that more boolits overall is better than individually "more powerful" boolits at least for pistols
same reason .223 took over from .308 -- you can carry more .223 than .308 in the same space/weight, which means more rounds downrange, which means higher chance of hitting someone and longer time before reloading
now, the real bullshit is single-stack pistols. if you think there is ANYTHING okay about single-stack pistols you are either a womyn or a bugman with tiny baby hands and who is too incompetent + retarded to learn a better grip that will accomodate your tiny baby hands
Nathaniel Campbell
>.45ACP is relevant today as it was in the Philippines over 100 years ago, doped up brown people tended to not go down when shot with 38spl which is about the same size as a 9mm but about 60% of the energy back then and still now with modern powder.
That wasn't .38 Special they were using, it was .38 Long Colt, which was a hilariously fucking anemic cartridge even by the standards of the day (and not the most accurate), so no shit that .45 Colt and .45ACP were a huge step up when those cartridges exhibit footpounds we still consider acceptable today. A smokeless load of .38 Special would have made a notable difference compared to .38 Long Colt
Benjamin Morgan
.223 is a pretty damn good killer with the right loads, it just doesn't have the same good range or barrier penetration of .308
Jackson Gray
.45 unironically has a lighter recoil impulse, shoot a mag from an m1911 then swap to a comparable 9mm. The 9mm has a sharper impulse and more flip from the same barrel length. >Inb4 muh 147gr.
Every time a Jow Forums poster posts his hand/arm, a lardass is detected.
Dominic Morgan
Are there any documented self defense shootings (by private citizens, not police) that required the shooter to fire more than, say 10 rounds? Genuine question, not trying to add to the flame war. It seems like almost all self defense scenarios are over in 2-3 shots.
Is a Troll or essentially a religious fanatic. If I shoot you in the chest or head with a 9mm are you going to laugh and say it's not a .45? The main feature of a successful gunfight is getting round into the target when 70-80% of the shots miss regardless of caliber. The whole .45 is best meme got started when the other gun was a rather anemic .38 caliber double-action revolver in 1900 using older powder technology. When the 1911 .45 showed up it was a larger caliber and more powerful powder in the cartridge. It introduced smokeless powder and the autoloading pistol. Now It's the older technology. Get over it, use whatever you want in a modern cartridge that you shoot well. In our modern times we have variety of cartridge calibers and types of handguns. The .45 religious fervor is from WWI, get over it.
>It introduced smokeless powder and the autoloading pistol That had been going on for a little while actually (the French was first out of the gates with the 8mm Lebel rifle cartridge), but the 1911 was one of the first truly good automatic service pistols (a technology which necessitates smokeless gunpowder), right next to the Luger, which the 1911 dethroned as the world's best service pistol at the time.
The .38 Long Colt was a piece of shit even by the time, cartridges like .45 Colt and .44-40 Winchester weren't Magnums by any stretch of the imagination, but they cut the mustard, and it's what someone would pick if they were serious about gunfighting. Then .45 Automatic Colt Pistol comes around, not just being more powerful than these previously mentioned cartridges, but in a state of the art self-loading pistol, with an action and manual of arms which is still highly relevant in the year 2019, over a century later.
To the US military and global civilian use which translates to promotion of the .45 meme. The UK revolvers also did not really compare to the 1911. The Luger is a contemporary with a 1908 introduction but was pretty fragile and firing ball ammo not comparable in stopping power (but still lethal). Also not likely to be seen in use the US compared to the 1911. The modern JHP rounds made the 9mm really viable. The Browning Hi Power is also still relevant today. All hail John Moses Browning!