I've heard all kinds of BS myths about this. And I get radically different answers depending on who I ask.
>Once bullets/casings are found you're basically fucked, the police can track it back to the exact gun using some kind of ATF super database.
>Bro unless they get the gun used in the crime you're fine
>Lmao just scratch the shit out of the inside of your barrel/muzzle so it doesn't leave a "fingerprint."
what do you say Jow Forums? What's the truth?
Inb4 glownigger, I'm just curious
not a forensics expert but they can't without having the gun.
as i understand it though they just test the gun, what's in it and on it, the casing and what's in it and on it, and the casing's "damage" from being fired and if it's consistent with that model.
then they corroborate the rest to form a case.
they'll check for recent purchases of guns and cctv to see who was in the area and if you bought a gun chambered in that round they'll probably stop by.
nowadays it's hard to get away with shit in major cities without a LOT of effort. which requires a smart person and most criminals aren't smart. and even then you need to be lucky.
on the flip side just murder people in chicago on the bad side of town and no one will look into it.
Bullets are traced by comparing rifling to marks left on the bullet. Cases are traced by comparing markings left by the chamber and/or the firing pin.
Just Google IBIS (Integrated Ballistic Identification System).
When a bullet is fired the casing is scanned and the markings on it act as a "fingreprint". They can't trace it to the weapon itself without the weapon, but they can use this data to link casings from other shooting scenes. If they ever eventually get the gun as evidence then they'll test fire it, scan the casing and link it to any other scenes where the casings were recovered.
> Plus ejector markings.
Maryland spent 15 years and millions of dollars creating a database of fired rounds from every new pistol sold in the state, so they could compare and trace them to casings found in crimes. Never got a single match and they shut the program down a couple years ago. How much more evidence do you need that its a lofty ideal that doesn't reflect actual policework?
>shoots dude
>picks up hot casings
>take out pocket knife
>scoops out bullets from body
they'll never find me
Not op but could you just changed the internals of your firearm such as the firing pin, ejector, barrel, etc to avoid those specific markings?
Fuck, *change*
Stupid phoneposter I know
Yes, but at that point, you'd be better off completely destroying the gun anyways.
"Modern day" ballistic (psuedo)science is pretty much for the most part unchanged since the early-mid 20th century. That was a time when there were significantly fewer handguns, and very significantly fewer automatic pistols. People just did not go plinking or shoot for target practice much. A casual guy on this board probably uses ammo in a couple of trips what these people used in a year. With those facts considered, there was very little wear on the bore, so striations on bullets wouldn't differ much from a test fired shot to the crime scene shot. Also keep in mind, it's not like you had drop in barrels/extractors/ejectors readily available. Everything had to be hand fitted, so nobody was swapping out gun parts. Today, you can buy a complete slide assembled for a Glock or M&P online and everything fits and functions perfectly. That barrel from online could theoretically get thrown away as well as the extractor/ejector in under a minute. There's more things to mention in theory, but my point is, this antiquated bullshit is only able to credibly put people in jail because most criminals are fucking dumb and don't realize when they leave huge glaring piles of evidence.
Just shoot them with a bullet made of ice, it'll melt from the body heat and leave no evidence behind so long as you pick up the cases
maryland would do this.
how about stop being right behind chicago in terms of shittiness huh guys? fucking baltimore is garbage
anyway i think the obvious solution is to have serial numbers stamped into the casings amirite guys?
just make the casings out of ice. they'll never find you.
You forgot to make the powder out of ice to avoid them backtracking powder residue
make the whole gun out of ice
>>Once bullets/casings are found you're basically fucked, the police can track it back to the exact gun using some kind of ATF super database.
Holywood meme
California passes laws saying "When two manufacturers have patent-free guns that stamp the serial of the gun onto the primer, then all gun sales will require this by law"
However, such technology is entirely fictional.
The best they have is case analysis.
Depending on who you believe, some say that all guns are fired in the factory, the cases stored, sent in for analysis, scanned, and saved forever. The reality is, even if this was happening, the chances of an accurate match are near impossible. You'd get thousands, if not tens of thousands of hits for every shell case.
It's much more useful to say "Well, we found this guy running from the scene with a freshly fired gun on him, covered in his fingerprints, with one missing bullet, can we match it to the case left on the scene?"
>Bro unless they get the gun used in the crime you're fine
If they have no other evidence tying you to the crime, you're fine.
If they have no footage, no GPS records from your phone, nothing else to indicate it's you, spare the brass you left on scene, just some magic computer that says "This case is totally tied to this gun which was sold to this user", then no-one will ever fucking prosecute you no matter what.
They need something to tie you to the scene, otherwise they won't prosecute. If they prosecute, they'll use stuff like that as evidence.
>Lmao just scratch the shit out of the inside of your barrel/muzzle so it doesn't leave a "fingerprint."
That'd leave a much more pronounced fingerprint though. Just not a prerecorded one
It is not a meme, I am certified CSI Miami Ballistic Expert.
Pretty much. 99% of gang bangers that get caught it's because their buddies turned them in or they are stupid and brag about it on social media, do it right in front of a camera, etc.
And just like with people, fingerprints are not unique
Make self out of ice, you'll melt away before they ever find you.
Than use a bullet you never used and dump the rest inside a forest and melt the rest down.
If you change internals have some collected bullets @home so they think you allways shoot that kind of compo and not what they have from a crime
And I'm an underage gunsmith who lied on her FFL application, I think I know a thing or two about firearms
If you have a 9x18 gun and you shoot .380 out of it will they be able to do that or would they just shoot the only caliber its chambered for? Always wondered this since maks and some older czs can shoot both ammo
>What's the truth?
There is no "one" truth. There's only possibilities.
*IF* the cops recover evidence at the scene then there's a chance that evidence can be matched to other evidence. However there's no guarantee. It's just like fingerprints, really: sometimes the cops get lucky and the perp leaves a nice, clear, fingerprint that happens to have a match in the database. Other times there are no prints, or there are prints but the quality isn't good enough to match, or there are prints but nothing to match them against. It depends entirely on the circumstances.
>(((her)))
Yeah no
Never heard of feminine penis?
youtube.com
What did he mean by this?
tooling marks from the firing pin. this would only match if the gun were used before in a crime and tested/photographed
>this would only match if the gun were used before in a crime and tested/photographed
Nope. It could also be used to confirm if the weapon the cops found was in fact the murder weapon.
>>we found casings at the crime scene
>>we found a gun in a suspect's locker
>>that gun fired the casings found at the scene
Actually he's right, I work for a local law enforcement agency (not a cop, just fix theor vehicles) and the first thing they do in an investigation is check the victims social media pages, you would be suprised how many people blatantly post shit they do and then are shocked when the police knock on their door....
This 9 times out of 10 fingerprint left on the shell casing.
It will fire but the casing will bulge and possibly split indicating that it was fired from a larger caliber gun.
Gunsmith cats is epic wanna fuck while shooting guns? i'll bring the ammo. you gotta bring the condoms.
You picked a bad example by jumping from US measurements to Russian measurements. We do not measure all of the dimensions using the same methods.
>en.wikipedia.org
>en.wikipedia.org
Regardless, any decent forensic tech should be looking for some markers that will be present and continue investigating when an inconsistency is found.
tldr; maybe
>Put 9mm Dillon barrel in Glock 20
>Murder
>Destroy barrel, put 10mm barrel in
>Police find 9mm bullet
>They test your 9mm guns
>None match
>"Sorry to bother you sir"
>Jamal convicted
This is such an incredibly simple problem, I don't know how it hasn't been solved before
You should straight-up leave your phone at home if you're doing anything really in depth. Feds have pulled cell tower records to track down and arrest people before.
thetrace.org
>An affidavit shows that several of the suspects’ cell phones were in the vicinity of the UPS facility at the time of the burglary and that investigators matched three of them to DNA found in the UPS trailers and the abandoned moving truck.
Even if you don't caliber swap, just buying a cheap used barrel (Or a new one from a chink manufacturer) for your gun at a gun show with cash (no evidence) would go a long fucking way.. if you're really paranoid after you use it get a slightly larger diameter drill bit and decimate the inside with a power drill.
Obv. anyone with access to a cutting torch or other power tools could make the barrel turn into a pile of scrap or slag in a matter of minutes.
If you are too poor/stupid to use tools or it would be too obvious for you to do that where you live, drive out to a lake/ocean on a fishing trip and drop that baby in to the fish shit soup.
>>Destroy barrel, put 10mm barrel in
How to destroy a berrel without letting traces behind?
it doesn't matter if traces are left behind; traces cannot be matched.
simply brushing out the barrel with abrasive (sand) will change the markings inside it, preventing it from being matched. If you wanted to totally destroy it you could heat it up in a fire and then smash it while it was red-hot, cut/melt it with a torch, fill it with thermite, etc. if the barrel is plain steel (not stainless) then acid will fuck it up in short order.
The real problem is that the forensics are usually just a small part of a larger case.
They know Jamal has been feuding with Tyrone. Red light cameras put him in Tyrone's neighborhood 10 minutes before the shooting. Another camera shows him leaving Tyrone's neighborhood 10 minutes later. Cellphone records show someone took Tyrone's phone to Jamal's house after Tyrone died. Jamal is found with a 9mm, the same caliber that killed Tyrone. But oh no, the forensics don't quite match! Guess Jamal didn't do it.
Not to be confused with ibs
It's possible to identify the model or a set of models based on the rifling marks and other marks on the case, but matching it to a specific gun requires that firearm to be tested and the results directly compared.
For example, Glock rifling marks are pretty distinct, as are firing pin impressions on the primer. But holy fuck how many Glocks are there floating around out there? Your chances of picking up Glock #5462 are pretty slim.
OFC you're not going to test a random shell casing and then magically know exactly which gun fired it. Just like fingerprints, tire tracks, etc, they are pieces of a much larger puzzle. Ballistics donesn't magically identify a weapon out of thin air.
Right, it puts you in a plausible area for a piece of evidence which builds a bigger picture.
Like a blurry picture slowly coming into focus.
Fired Casings were great. We used to shoot them in a back room and then if you forgot to drape a rag over the slide you'd just find a round on the floor that was the right caliber and stick it in the baggy and say "yeeeeep it was definitely this one".
t. small town gunsmiths apprentice
It's as part of it. If your gun has unusual rifling, that can help them identify you. But at that point, you're probably already fucked, and that's one of the last things they need to confirm to crucify you
revolver
I was about to disagree with you, then you mentioned chicago.
Problem with Chicago is noone talks to police. Justice system is a revolving door, so you rat on someone and they will be out on ibond and come for you. or they'll put a hit on you from inside. Since it's not safe to use justice system, blacks in chicago just take it into their own hands. Not to mention that noone trusts CPD bc corrupt cops are just as bad as the gangs.
protip- always load your carry ammo with latex gloves on. Even if you do find yourself in a dgu, better to have as little info linking you to gun as possible. You may not want to even go to the police just to avoid legal headache if no witnesses. Go to a lawyer first.
>>Once bullets/casings are found you're basically fucked, the police can track it back to the exact gun using some kind of ATF super database.
Not exactly, but if you go on a pattern of shootings in different locations they'll figure out the casings come from the same gun most likely.
>>Bro unless they get the gun used in the crime you're fine
Basically yes, a bunch of casings come from some gun but they don't know who's it is. If they test yours and it matches then you're probably fucked.
>>Lmao just scratch the shit out of the inside of your barrel/muzzle so it doesn't leave a "fingerprint."
This literally does nothing because the scratches will be the same for each bullet you fire and therefore are still all connectable.
Please describe your burps and farts to me
>hard to get away with shit
Not really ~50% of murders go unsolved.
in chicago, try 9%
heyjackass.com
another fun fact from that site, so far in 2019 Chicagoans tie with CPD in lawful self defense 4-4 for killed and ahead 7-4 for wounded
I dunno about murica.
But here in germany alot of guns used in crimes have been found in lakes and such.
Police doggos tend to be mean and smart fuckers and then the divers find it sooner or later.
That 9% includes retards. Assuming someone uses even a modicum of intelligence, I'm sure it's more like 40%, which is crazy high.
Make the victim out of ice.
Just use a revolver, no cases left behind. Preferably in a common caliber.
Honest to God the best they can do is:
>figure caliber used
>sometimes figure brand of ammunition used, using features of the projectile or head stamps on case or the unique chemical composition of the propellant
>get a general guess about what firearm was used (i.e. using number of grooves, presence of casings showing it was a semi auto and not a revolver, how far the projectile buried itself can give them a general idea of barrel length but this is shaky ass science)
>trajectory can give you an idea of how tall the person shooting was and/or where they shot from
...and to be honest not much else. Of course if you are the only person in 500 miles committing crimes with some meme caliber and a meme gun with extremely specific and uncommon ammo you're going to be pretty easy to find. Nogs and spics always use the same plane jane cheap as fuck firearms for murrrda weppins like the hi-point, any pocket pistol under $300 ever, any snubbie under $300 ever, or glocks if they save up a little, etc...and it's always in 9, 40, 32, 25, or 38 caliber. That and the fact that hoodrats don't want to be called snitches causes most gang/minority shooting cases to go unresolved.
Matching cases to a specific gun is somewhat of a meme. Matching projectiles to a specific gun is even more of a meme.
What about using moon clips to fire ammo for automatics through a revolver?
The FBI keeps a massive archive of rare and obscure guns, just in case someone decides to use something a bit more obscure.
You need the gun itself to get a positive match. Mostly they can maybe tell make/model or a range of makes/models. Like Glocks put a real distinct impression on the primer, but unless you have the gun actually used, you can't match it to the case.
Fire a round through the gun, compare how the rifling cuts one bullet to the next. Smooth bores cannot be tested, neither can cases alone, need the whole gun and intact bullets.
That's an example of using a revolver, yes.
>neither can cases alone,
Incorrect. Cases can be studied alone. They can show marks from the magazine feed lips, extractor, chamber, and firing pin.
For example, I own two glocks. Both 10mm. I can easily tell at a glance which of the two fired which casing. Why? Simple: one has the factory firing pin, the other has an aftermarket firing pin. They leave very different looking impressions on the primer.
Watch 48 hrs. They pick up a .45/9mm casing and some nigger dropped the gun near by.