How do you make Finland NOT lose both Winter War and Continuation War?

But they won

>Losing over 10% of territory plus one of your biggest cities is now considered winning

get simo to have over 300 confirmed shits on stalins table

When the objective is survival, yes, it is.

If they had just pushed on to cut off Karelia and Viborg, they could have both broken the siege of Leningrad and cut off the massive amounts of Lend-Lease that were coming in by rail through Murmansk like 30 miles from their front lines. But they wouldn't, because they didn't want to commit to Barbarossa as aggressors. So fuck them, they should have lost even harder for trying to play both sides

What about Poland?

That's finns for you.
We are retarded memelord turncoats.
Why would anyone trust us in wars to come?

Cope

continue it past 1945, give Finns more tanks and antitank weapons, and get the US or UK to support Finland against the Soviets as a buffer to the USSR.

How many as good snipers as simo are forgotten now?
What could be considered super soldiers are much more common than we think but only few get any fame.

Mannerheim was a nobleman and unironic fan of the Russian royal line, he didn't want to jump through hoops for some faggot German ruffian. We carry knives to practice stabbing everyone in the back

Find a flaw.

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I spotted ruskies!

You can't, fingols are eternal losers.

They won both given that the goal of both wars was for the Soviets to conquer Finland

> But they wouldn't, because they didn't want to commit to Barbarossa as aggressors
>So fuck them, they should have lost even harder for trying to play both sides
Everyone with a half of a brain would have understood that operation Barbarossa was doomed to fail. Finns were smart enough to understand this. They did what was best for keeping Finnish nation free. That is why Finland is ranked one of the most happiest places on earth and is not part of depressing eastern european shitholes.

>goal of both wars was for the Soviets to conquer Finland
Russians will deny this
>MUH PROTECTING LENINGRAD
>MUH JUST ACCEPT THESE OUTRAGEOUS DEMANDS, IT SURE WORKED FOR BALTIC STATES
>MUH BUT FINLAND LOST

>That is why Finland is ranked one of the most happiest places on earth
>suicide and alcoholism rates through the roof
>not a shithole

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Better than turning into the Finnish SSR for the next 45 years after the war, which was Stalin's original plan for Finland before he realized that Finns wouldn't bend over and give it up like the Baltics. That's why they signed an armistice with the Finns in 1944 as soon as they reached the pre-continuation war Finnish borders.

>failing to annex a country several times weaker than yours and barely managing to conquer 10% of their territory and city is considered winning

>Thinking you've won when you failed to totally capture a nation that's a fraction the size of you in every way is considered winning

Finland paid with land, Russia paid with flesh.

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>But they wouldn't,
More like they couldn't because of the terrain and armed resistance.

No blade to make a giant puukko out of that log.

>Losing over 10 men for every sq km gained is winning

A free and independent Finland during the entirety of the cold war and into the present day seem to suggest that the Finns, in fact, won.

The Soviets wanted to conquer all of Finland and expected to be able to do so in 5 days or less. In the end they only got 10% of Finland. That makes the war a 90% Finnish victory.

finland reached its goal of maintaining independence
soviet union failed to reach its goal of annexing finland
which of these two is the winner?
idk why this is so hard to understand

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>How do you make Finland NOT lose both Winter War

result is same regardless of whether or not finland wins winter war or not

ebin served by me

Would require Sweden having a change in heart and fully supporting the Finns. As well as the British and French sending the aid and soldiers they said they wanted to, which would effectively mean war with the Soviets (which the British were anticipating with Operation Pike)
Taking place during the Phony War, the Winter War meant relatively little aid from the Allies in anything. Getting the British and French to act would also meant them committing to fully fighting the war with Germany.

kill woodrow wilson when he is an infant, preventing our entry into WW1.

Have swedes stop being fucking pussies and send a hundred thousand soldiers

>Soviets wanted to conquer all of Finland but could because Finns were 2 powerful!!

Where does this retarded meme come from? Finnish volunteers tried to invade the USSR twice before the winter war in order to unite all Finnic peoples and were repelled. The USSR, knowing this and having grown in strength, demanded a relatively small chunk of land as a buffer zone in case they tried it again or worse, let western invaders like the Germans through. The Finns refused, were invaded, and defeated at great cost to the Soviets. The Soviets took the land that they originally demanded plus a considerable amount more, but chose not to take over all of Finland because their losses were already embarrassing and also because it was unnecessary. After the Continuation War, Finns were friendly to the Soviets throughout the Cold War. They were more closely aligned with them than us. You could say they were a bit like Yugoslavia or maybe even Egypt under Nasser.

*couldn't

>t. Voroshilov

this has got to be a troll
surely

Wouldn't that elect Teddy and make the US enter WW1 even harder though?

Post an argument any time

The US supports Finland in the Continuation War and the Third Reich and Italt refuse to declare war on the US due to Imperial Japan's refusal to officially declare war on the USSR.

I always found it odd how Russians who claim to be proud to be Russian bend over backwards to defend the Soviet Union. It was founded primarily by ethnic Ashkenazi Jews who disliked the average Slavic Russian. Karl Marx himself actually looked down upon the Slavic people too.

Also, Stalin was Georgian and not Russian and killed plenty of ethnic Slavic Russians and I don't just mean members of the Russian Liberation Army who fought against him.

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How the fuck did Finland not yield to the Red Army when the much larger and capable Wehrmacht was getting BTFO all over the place in 1944.?

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the answer is tanks
germany had tanks
finland didn't

Sweden sent quite alot of their own resources and weapons to Finland, including bombers. They didn't directly take actions in the war but everyone knew, that if Finland would fall, swedes would get a hostile neighbour. Nearly ten thousand volunteer swedes fought in the war.
All of this efford allowed finns to withdraw their troops from the north, to protect the south.

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Hell, even Germany, ruled by Hitler, sent aid to Finland.

>dude they totally helped, look they sent 1% of their forces!!

Literally the Soviets started the war under a false pretext lmao

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-British_plans_for_intervention_in_the_Winter_War
basically have Norway and Sweden stop being fucking spineless scum like they've been since the 18th century

the red guard wins the finnish civil war

Give them the same manpower pool to draw from that the Red Army had and the supplies to keep said army in the field.

I would prefer that the borders of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania get re-established.

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At least get the good flag back

Make sure Stalin never realizes that killing pretty much all competent military leadership in his army was a really dumb thing to do so he never puts someone with even half a brain in charge of the Finnish front, causing a massive beefing up to the tactics used by the Russians against an already severely fatigued Finland.

Make sure Sweden wins the great northern war.

>It was founded primarily by ethnic Ashkenazi Jews who disliked the average Slavic Russian
That's why majority of power structures was under control of non-jewish people.
>Solzhenytsin quote
Perfect retard mark.

>Operation Pike
It's infuriating to know that we came so close to avoiding the Cold War and everything that was cause by it, but we cucked out for "Uncle Joe" cause of all the commies in the Foreign Office and the State Department.

McCarthy was unironically right.

do not participate in the continuation war and wait for the soviet collapse so they can conquer russia and extend their finnish borders to their mongolian brethren

Kun paistais ryssää voissa

reminder

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Intermarium is the future. Only way to stop the eternal ivan and eternal kraut.

reminder

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boriksella herskat loppu kun pitää ulista netissä viekkaripäissään

the finns were already overstretched and ill-supplied. Their manpower was gone, everyone had been drafted.
Throwing them all away to join Germany in her aggression would basically mean joining the axis.
As it was now they were just co-belligerents, but their claims were still justified.
it was just realpolitik.

Reminder

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a lot of fighter aircraft, rifles and aid came from sweden, as well as money.

don't you have a grenade to dodge svantte?

Get more soldiers like The White 'MF' Death that love their country and are willing to fight the good fight and be smart about it.

Germans and Soviets, US and UK all have their own interest in mind.

Reminder

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yeah and guess what else the swedes did
denied the passage of allied reinforcements and pressured Finland to accept the unfavourable peace terms

>finnish soldiers
doubt it

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>Finland
>Turncoat
Yeah but they were literal goddamned Nazis. Fuck'em.

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Tbh I would've taken the offer what they proposed before Winter War - pushing back our border on Karelian Ishtmus, loosing some islands and leasing a port for few decades and getting some mainland Karelia in exchange.
One other mistake was pushing for the greater Finland meme. We had the perfect chance to end the Continuation War after pushing back to our old borders, Leningrad was almost under siege from all side and German was bringing in some heat for Sovjets while they were in midst of moving everything behind Ural mountains. That would've been ideal situation to negotiate and call it a day.

>Tbh I would've taken the offer what they proposed before Winter War - pushing back our border on Karelian Ishtmus, loosing some islands and leasing a port for few decades and getting some mainland Karelia in exchange.
implying the soviets would have stopped at that, they got the "all clear" from Germany to occupy Finland without intervention after all
>One other mistake was pushing for the greater Finland meme. We had the perfect chance to end the Continuation War after pushing back to our old borders, Leningrad was almost under siege from all side and German was bringing in some heat for Sovjets while they were in midst of moving everything behind Ural mountains.
what about the hundreds of thousand German troops operating in and from Finland? after the start of barbarossa Finland was firmly on the axis side and getting permission for peace from Germany would have been impossible
not to mention just pushing to the old borders and stopping there is a delusional idea any way you look at it, if defence is the only thing you're interested pushing in as deep as possible when you still can is the smartest thing to do so there is still something to fall back to, and if you really actually care about a safe future for the nation completely destroying Russia is the sure way to go, it wasn't just a greedy land grab attempt, it was an attempt at finally beating an enemy that had been a sort of arch nemesis of Finland for centuries, a threat that guaranteed that as long as it exists Finland cannot be safe, and see, even today, soviets long gone Russia, even in its weakened state, still is the biggest military threat to Finland by an order of magnitude.

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what do it say

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Rename the Soviet Union to Finland and Finland to the Soviet Union

Finns will generously pay for the weapons you bring
For revolver...100 rubles
for rifle... 150 rubles
for quick-firing revolver(wtf is this) 400 rubles
for machine gun ... 1500 rubles
for tank ... 10.000 rubles

For intact airplane you'll be paid 10.000 dollars besides trip to any country.

>for quick-firing revolver(wtf is this)
maybe some sort of butchered translation of semi-auto pistol

thanks for the translation man, it's hard to plug that into google heh

>artist couldn't think of enough nice shit to draw in Turkey
>left it looking half empty

kek'd fucking hard... ahhaahha

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>How do you make Finland NOT lose both Winter War and Continuation War?
give them some confidence pills?

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I don't think the Cold War would have been averted from Operation Pike. If anything it may have intensified the hatred between the two sides if the British blew up a strategic Soviet resource. That may have made the German offensive into the USSR even more effective at first and led to more destruction before it was pushed back, maybe even allowing the Germans to temporarily take Moscow.
Then at the end of the war they would remember that in 1945 and onward. So having what would become NATO and Soviets forces close together in Europe would have even more tension. Possibly Soviets demanding reparations for the oil fields or saying they will not pay for Lend-Lease aid (if it happened in such a timeline).

while you fret over MUH ROOSIANS, somalis and other muslims have already conquered your tiny country.

Between that and losing 100% of your territory and cities to Soviet control and ending up as a Baltic style state within the Soviet Union, I'd say Finland did pretty well.

There was no way that Finland could've held onto territory it retook during the Continuation War, short of Axis victory. The Soviets were going to turn back their attention to the Finns sooner or later; short of massive support from Germany, there was no way that the Finns could win.

Finland still paid with flesh for its land; even though Soviet casualties were over 4 times that of Finnish casualties, the Soviet population was 170 million to Finland's 5 million or so.

It's a good thing that the Finns cut their losses while they were still relatively ahead; otherwise they might've ended up like Paraguay.

Anybody got that picture of Soviets skinning and eating their own? Fucking subhumans

would like to see that, here is one that iirc was the handiwork of a finn who got lost with a couple of dudes

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The real answer is that the Soviet Army during the Winter War was still suffering from Stalin's purges and was just beginning to resume modernization efforts. Plus, many of the invading troops were from the Ukrainian SSR so they were not as accustomed to the extreme cold conditions. By the time the Germans invaded the USSR, the Soviets had learned a few lessons from the Winter War and had modernized a bit further.