This is pretty big, I have not seen the CCP do something like this before, and am very curious as to the kind of message they are trying to get across. To note, this comes about a week and a half after the Liaoning CSG sailed between two Okinawan Islands. Save for the USS Decatur incident that happened in October, China hasn't really done much to push back on the US's pressure campaign (which, in my view, has been very effective).
What do you guys think will be the US/Wests response? Return to more frequent FONOPs, maybe increasing in scope and scale? CSG Taiwan Strait FONOP? Maybe letting Japan conduct their first ever FONOP through the Taiwan Strait/illegitimate islands in the SCS? I could even see the Reagan CSG and the Izumo Flotilla doing something soon since the two Task Forces have been operating extremely intimately the past month or two.
no one gives a shit, this will play to domestic chinese media, but the west don't give a fuck. try some shit then we going to sink that bitch
Elijah Fisher
I say we wave at them. Maybe we can exchange presents if we throw hard enough.
Landon White
>the kind of message they are trying to get across "The pacific belongs to us."
Hudson Gutierrez
The Chinks got lost. Even their GPS is trash.
Colton Harris
Probably trying to get the public to ignore a single LRASM equipped b-1 could still sink the entire CSG. Maybe the US will do soviet-style approaches when it comes out again to test reaction times?
Xavier Lopez
>Message they're trying to get across "YOU THINK YOU'RE SAFE?! WE CAN SAIL NEAR YOU TOO!" >Message they're actually sending "We are insanely buttravaged by you sailing through the Taiwan Strait and we think that this will have the same effect on you."
That's neat, I guess. It'll be nice to have some other kids to play with on the playground for once. Even if they're short and semi-retarded.
Ryder Robinson
this
Nathan Hernandez
>What do you guys think will be the US/Wests response? Develop more versatile surface combat systems so we don't need to rely on aircraft for fleet offensive arm.
Glad to see the chinks embracing the freedom of navigation, they can sail wherever the fuck they want as long as they respect internationally agreed upon territorial waters.
Hudson Gray
Who gives a fuck? If you get upset about their freedom of navigation you undermine your own claims re: freedom of navigation
>CSG Taiwan Strait FONOP? Maybe letting Japan conduct their first ever FONOP through the Taiwan Strait/illegitimate islands in the SCS? I could even see the Reagan CSG and the Izumo Flotilla doing something soon since the two Task Forces have been operating extremely intimately the past month or two. No, dont be stupid.
Hudson Mitchell
Pretty much this
Gavin Nelson
This.
Its amazing just how fragile the Chinese are. This is the kind of thing a child would do.
Nicholas Johnson
says the one who needs to send carriers to intimidate a weak country like Venezuela.
Jonathan Nelson
Yeah, the whole Taiwan issue must be getting pretty fucking embarrassing for them. I mean, even the Canadians sail warships through that strait.
Austin Ortiz
They got pissed at Canada for doing it too
Ian Wilson
>wavelength is taller than the missile is tall
Zero track chance.
Elijah Kelly
>No, dont be stupid. To expand on this, what the US should do is have the embassy in Beijing release a statement (build it up, make them think the US is upset and is going to say something spicey) that goes along the lines of >The US notes the recent FONOP conducted by the PLAN >The US is respects and encourages all nations to make full use of their rights to freedom of navigation as granted by [treaty] >The US is encouraged by the PLANs commitment to FON and takes this to be a meaningful step towards establishing uncontested FON *throughout the Taiwan straights*
Basically: Paint them into a corner
Juan Johnson
The difference is that the US are intimidating, the chinese are not.
We all know that their carriers are not as yet combat ready.
Sebastian Perry
This would be the best move. Really highlight how different the situation is to make the Chinese look bad.
James Moore
Only soon until they crash into each other
Bentley Hernandez
Subsonic missile though, very close to horizon, doubt the Chicoms would be radiating all the time so low down even if they could detect it.
Benjamin Cook
Works only as long as China is the weaker party.
Wait a few years and China sails nuclear carriers and nuclear armed missile cruisers along the US West Coast, or stations semi-permanent sea-platforms armed with nukes off Hawaii, all carrying a big "We Love FON!" flag on them.
Andrew Clark
If its outside of territorial waters literally who cares
John Kelly
This is the only way I can interpret this. China gets very annoyed by supposed violations of "their" water or airspace. When it's done to the US there is little care. The Russians send planes near Alaska and ships by the East coast, the Iranians have talked about sailing ships close to the coast. It's a non-issue because the ships are in international zones.
Sailing close to Guam brings the PLAN a little closer to an American base. But they're not doing anything, so who cares? It achieves nothing other than a chance to take some photos of them at sea. Maybe they will get buzzed by an American plane or a ship will get a little close to watch them.
Xavier Howard
If they want to bring their forces into close range during what could become a potential conflict then that will be their folly.
Cooper Wood
the thing is, FON is legal, but still an highly unfriendly act.
America will care when China sails armed fleets around the US coast, just as Japan freaks out everytime they see Chinese carriers and destroyers passing international waters through the Miyako strait, often even escorting Japanese ships.
What is legal is not what is considered a non-belligerent act.
If it is legal it is non-belligerent. If you want to behave like an asian and get assblasted at the drop of a hat, sure, whatever. China sailing a fleet down the West Coast is not a threat. The imperative is to keep the straights of Taiwan open, that has strategic value. If China wants to send a task-force to the West coast the only valid response is: >Weird flex, but ok.
Joshua Lee
Did the Americans care when the Soviets did it? Not to the extent it was all over the national news or a personal offense in the mind of every citizen. It will be done to the Chinese in return and they will get a lot more upset over it if their recent actions/reactions are any indicator.
Brody Murphy
If any of the boats homeported in Guam are in then they can go out and have some fun. Sail out, dive, and start getting close to the Chinese formation to see how they react. Take some acoustic samples and pictures at periscope depth. If the Navy wanted to push back a little.
Lucas Flores
>the Iranians have talked about sailing ships close to the coast. now what i want to see. imagine the twitter-shitposting Donnie will do if this happens
Asher Baker
More then 90% of Russian munitions stock are 'legacy' weapons ten years+ beyond their operational lifespan. They represent a greater danger to the ships carrying them then any target.
Sebastian Brooks
hope Chinks sail close to California and start flying their planes around those commies.
Nathan Gutierrez
I’m sure they’ve already done similar things quite often. Chinese subs and ASW are really the biggest area that needs improvement in their naval infrastructure at the moment.
Parker Anderson
I like how china is being trumped up as more of a threat than they actually are. It ensures that both repubs and dems are gonna fund DOD like crazy so we get new shit.
Alexander Roberts
I’m looking forward to Cold War levels of military R&D desu. Guarantees me job security.
Isaiah Brooks
STRAITS. God damn, so many dumbasses here can't spell strait.
Ian Barnes
The best response is to continue what we have been doing, multiple allied nations have already passed throught the Taiwan straight.
Andrew Perry
>It ensures that both repubs and dems are gonna fund DOD like crazy so we get new shit.
The tri-service push for hypersonics.
Dominic Mitchell
Nobody past adolescence thinks this.
Charles Howard
They only have a few frigates that could do it. If they did then an actual rowboat with some Navy personnel should be sent out to greet them.
Matthew James
>thinking real militaries give a shit when other vessels sail international waters
Christian Edwards
Its a FONOP lol
Justin King
It would actually make the US look kinda stupid to say that. The US has never ratified UNCLOS
I'm not sure if you're just pretending to be retarded but sailing close to another nation is a diplomatic threat. Western countries do care, they always carefully escort Russian ships past their own waters.
the last time asians did this, we burned down their entire country, nuked them twice, and converted their male population into betas that want to be girls
Christopher Watson
Like the few times Russian ships sailed by the UK and Royal Navy ships escorted them through the English Channel. That's fine for someone to escort another through their waters and gives both sides a chance to look at the other or do a little bit of flexing. If Chinese ships wanted to sail across the Pacific then they may attract some followers but unless they openly approach the US coastal waters then it's not going to be looked upon aggressively.
I remember a Soviet Sub sinking off of the coast of Georgia when I was younger. Had a long talk with an old Lockheed Connie Naval patrol crew member. That predated the P3 He said they had a 3 megawatt search radar and a towed HF antenna with an 18 inch lead weight on the end of it they called the Donkey Dick. Either could be used offensively in a pinch. The would buzz a trawler at about 150-200 feet altitude and drag the donkey dick through the ships rigging at 300+knots. It was designed to easily tear away like old style football jerseys. Would but fuck their radar and radio antennas badly. After that they would do a slow speed flyby and pump 3 million watts of VHF into the bridge. They would try to orbit and manually aim the radar. Said they had films of smoke rolling out of the top ports from the electronics on the ship shorting out and exploding.
You don't have to shoot the enemy to mess them up.
Caleb Cooper
>internationally agreed >internationally >excluding U.S.A. so not internationally
Josiah Nelson
This
These cringe U.S. "freedom of faggotry"ops are just the equivalent of leftist armed with wooden club "flag" poles and bycycle locks, encircling people and screeching "im not doing anything muh rights" into everyone face until the cameras are bloked and they start touching and pushing.
They only copy paste the same butthurt stpoy screeching about China totally being butthurt anyways
Hit the nail on the head. Chinese have a massive chip on their shoulder, they take every criticism of their govt like a personal insult.
Hunter Cruz
Samefag aside, I don't understand. If the Chinese are super buttmad because they sailed near Guam once, what's the US sailing every week through the SCS and Taiwan Strait?
Alexander Barnes
The Chinese think sailing near Guam will have the same affect on America as it does on them when someone sails through the SCS or the Taiwan Strait. The problem for the Chinese it that it doesn't have an affect on the Americans.
Jaxson Martinez
Hell, most Americans don't even know Guam is a place, or that the US runs it.
Austin James
What effect? Sailing through the SCS or Taiwan Strait also doesn't affect Chinese people
Joshua Harris
>what's the US sailing every week through the SCS and Taiwan Strait? China claims 90% of an ocean as their territorial waters, while trying to the legitimise the claim by building islands on disputed reefs in said ocean. Then arming those islands with AShMs, IADS, fighters and bombers.
The USN sailing within 12 nautical miles of those islands shows to the CCP that the United States, and to that extent the UN, do not recognize their claims as legitimate. Sailing through the Taiwan Strait also indirectly implies that we would intervene on the ROCs behalf dare a Taiwan Invasion happens. Now that Western navys are conducting more FONOPs in the SCS and Taiwan Strait, it demonstrates those countries align with the USs posture in the region and backs the UN resolutions. This is why im sort of confused about the PLAN sailing so close to Guam. Yeah, its legal, and yes they did not enter US territorial waters. But why did they do it? To demonstrate what? Not recognizing the UNs resolutions? Make a statement of intent regarding 7th Fleet? Their role in the region? I really don't think its in the PLANs best interests to get into a CSG measuring contest with the West so soon.
how to make an article while having zero geography skills
>China's aircraft carrier sailed near Guam, accessed Taiwan Strait
Matthew Ortiz
>samefag aside stop embarassing yourself. it's perfectly normal to sail around international waters and close to your enemy. what isn't normal is shouting about it like the chinese do.
Logan Hughes
I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill it with a terrible resolve
Asher White
>But why did they do it? why not, more or less
Jacob Robinson
>China claims 90% of an ocean as their territorial waters,
usa claimed 200nm out of nowhere because fuck reasons
Brody Davis
So how assmad do you think the US would be if the Chinese fleet sailed within 50 miles of Hawaii or better yet Cali? Like 100 miles outside of MCRD San Diego or the same distance from San Fran? Would we intercept them from doing so or let them buzz our shores?
0% assmad. They’d probably send out an escort, but it’d be less to try and run the chinks off and more to say “yes, we know you’re here”
I don’t know where this concept of the US hating anyone fucking with it’s airspace came from. The Russians played “I’m not touching you!” For more than half a century,yet to my knowledge there was never a shoot down or anything more politically charged than “don’t do anything dumb Ivan”
Nathaniel Allen
Ships are deployed to observe potential threats but there's rarely autistic screeching other than a few journalists with slow news days.
Daily anti-Chang reminder that the US signed UNCLOS I and agrees to every clause of UNCLOS III except for deep seabed mining, so fuck off shill
Ayden Sanders
In international law a signature is an expression of intent to comply, a ratification where through the state's process the treaty becomes law. The us has signed but not ratified UNCLOS.
Alexander Price
It's mostly because we don't want the Russians breaking down off our coast and being left to drift.
Elijah Wilson
What is this screehing that keps being referred to? Im talking about the diplomatic implications of sailing warshuos near territory.
Julian Bennett
>confusing territorial waters with EEZ
Mason Thompson
>claims 90% of an ocean What? Which ocean? Do you mean the Soith China Sea?
>territorial waters I think you mean economic zone. Territorial waters only extend 12 miles from the coastline.
>US and to some extent UN do not recognize China's claims >UN resolutions I think you mean the international justice system under the Permanent Court of Arbitration on maritime affairs, which is not under the control of the UN. Contrary to popular perception, no UN resolutions have been made regarding the ownership of the islands, nor has any recognized international authority given ownership of the islands to any of the competing nations. The ruling on the SCS thus far have not said anything about who owns the islands, only that the nine dash line proposed by China is invalid because it is an incorrect usage of the economic exclusion zone laws of UNCLOS.
I think it's pretty clear why they sailed to Guam, it's the same reason the US sails to Taiwan, it's to indicate the vague possibility of military action and is a diplomatic move against the US' foremost operating base in the SCS.
Lmao, all these tards drinking the FONOP kool aid. It has nothing to do with the legality of the islands, it's about how all the trade in Asia goes through it.
>seething mutt worshipper 1 Rupee was added to your account
Xavier Gomez
Only shills spamming these "muh Chynaaaa buttmad threads" are buttmad. No one else gives a shit.
Gabriel Scott
>What? Which ocean? Do you mean the Soith China Sea? Yes
>think you mean economic zone. Territorial waters only extend 12 miles from the coastline. It is of my understanding that China is intentionally vague with what the 9 dash line is actually defined as. It can be interpreted as an extension or their EEZ or actual territorial waters.
>which is not under the control of the UN. Yes but it at least implies where the UN sides regarding the 9 Dash Line
>no UN resolutions have been made regarding the ownership of the islands, nor has any recognized international authority given ownership of the islands to any of the competing nations.
Yes but the UN agreed with the PCAs ruling, which means that they do not recognize China as the owners of 90% of the SCS. >The ruling on the SCS thus far have not said anything about who owns the islands, only that the nine dash line proposed by China is invalid because it is an incorrect usage of the economic exclusion zone laws of UNCLOS. Yes >I think it's pretty clear why they sailed to Guam, it's the same reason the US sails to Taiwan, it's to indicate the vague possibility of military action and is a diplomatic move against the US' foremost operating base in the SCS. Well yes, but I dont think its that cut and dry. I personally think its deeper than that.
>PLAAF SU-30s buzzed one Canadian Frigate that did the Taiwan Strait FONOP
Canada is playing a game we cannot afford to play. We simply lack the political motivation, capital and resolve to take on world powers. Sending a 30 yo outdated warship and a leased supply ship (part of a recently hushed up political scandal) within terrestrial missile range is simply nerve wrecking.
This thing started with the Huawei Executive of which Canada should've simply ignored since she's insignificant in the grand scheme of things aside from helping Trump do his trade war thing of which ironically Trump is attacking Canada at the same time with NAFTA 2.0 terms.
So why does it make sense for Canada to help Trump's US fight a trade war while the US fights Canada in a trade war as well?
It's a fucking shitshow of geopolitics that makes isolationism seem like an attractive option.
Trou d'eau probably thinks the US will back Canada up. Or maybe he was acting directly on Trump's orders anyway.
Lincoln Turner
man i hope someone does a sick kickflip off that thing.
Brayden Flores
Based.
Grayson Long
canada has a long history of sacrificing itself for no gain to itself noble, but not exactly smart
Austin Baker
>Canada should've simply ignored The US and Canada share an extradition treaty. They can't exactly ignore it. Also, Canada will inevitably be involved in America's conflict with China whether they like it or not.
Brayden Cox
Has China started flooding Canada with fentanyl yet?
Daniel Price
Nope, but they have started flooding it with Chinese people. Seems to mostly be students and businessmen who want to keep money outside of the reach of the CCP.
Ryan Parker
Yes. BC is in a total fentanyl crisis for the past two years bud, have you been living under a rock?
