Thread dedicated to tracked combat vehicles

Jacob Morris
Jacob Morris

Welcome
Tanks, IFVs, tracked SPGs/SPAAGs etc

Not welcome
Wheely bois

Will start of the thread by posting some pictures from Deutches Panzermuzeum I visited a few weeks back

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Other urls found in this thread:

soucy-defense.com/gpc/_media/document/brochure-2015.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_RMK30
youtube.com/channel/UCFWjEwhX6cSAKBQ28pufG3w
youtube.com/watch?v=ZZzwmj-FN_Y
jowforums.com/thread/42003324/weapons
youtube.com/watch?v=2AZe8jOuGpo
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2B1_Oka
youtube.com/watch?v=mlCRGD3rXt8
youtube.com/watch?v=VFtDZL3lpNk
sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic/754-syrian-tanks-at-war-some-pictures-and-words-between-them/?do=findComment&comment=124331
combatreform.org/lavdanger.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=c2iUGAqAhDE

Brody Fisher
Brody Fisher

2/?

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Carter Thompson
Carter Thompson

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Dylan Powell
Dylan Powell

3/?

Better picture of an East German T-55AM2B, behind it is a regular T-55A

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Dominic Gray
Dominic Gray

tfw even the WW2 Panther was better armored then a Leo 1

Logan Turner
Logan Turner

Likely going to fail A-levels, might consider becoming a challenger 2 gunner. Any brit bongs in the armed forces that have any challenger 2 experience?

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Ayden Foster
Ayden Foster

no

Isaiah Garcia
Isaiah Garcia

Inside of a Marder 1A3

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Camden Roberts
Camden Roberts

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Wyatt Collins
Wyatt Collins

Just a heads up: Armatard is active at the moment, also has been active in the past days.

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Ayden Bell
Ayden Bell

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Michael Diaz
Michael Diaz

Perhaps not. I was inside a Leo 1 not long ago tho and it seemed rather poorly armored (yes, I know this was by design)

Jayden Price
Jayden Price

For the level of threats it wasn't worse armored.

Matthew Wood
Matthew Wood

is he? what has he been posting this time?

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Cameron Reyes
Cameron Reyes

Thanks for the heads up, Ill keep an eye out for him.

Here is a Wiesel.

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Nathaniel Reyes
Nathaniel Reyes

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Lincoln Bailey
Lincoln Bailey

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Cameron Collins
Cameron Collins

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Daniel Garcia
Daniel Garcia

Here is a 113 with rubber tracks, apparently they offer a bunch of advantages for APC/IFV type vehicles.

Here is some information on them
soucy-defense.com/gpc/_media/document/brochure-2015.pdf

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Leo Miller
Leo Miller

Broken record of 'why are you seething?' and 'you are coping'. He is in the russian carrier thread at the moment.

Cooper Fisher
Cooper Fisher

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Matthew Moore
Matthew Moore

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Joseph Allen
Joseph Allen

Thats pretty rad. Is it 30x113?

Wyatt Fisher
Wyatt Fisher

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Gabriel Phillips
Gabriel Phillips

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Justin Wood
Justin Wood

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Levi Baker
Levi Baker

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Matthew Bell
Matthew Bell

Here is a pretty rare variant. M113 painted in M90 splinter camo used as a testbed for an armored Rbs 56 vehicle

Post more rare M113
Inb4 Sparks shows up

Jayden Ramirez
Jayden Ramirez

Are you allowed to touch/go inside some of the pieces in that museum? I'm considering going but it's a long drive.

Zachary Myers
Zachary Myers

Its this gun:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_RMK30
Though recoilless, the RMK 30 has a higher muzzle energy than conventional 30 mm autocannons.
That is pretty neat.

Christopher Walker
Christopher Walker

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Colton Edwards
Colton Edwards

I drove around 1200 km for it. The only fully open vehicle you could enter was a Leopard 1, but there are plenty of vehicles with their doors open that you can see the inside of. Overall it was a great museum tho, it had pretty much everything you could wish for.

I also highly recomend the "Wehrtechniche muzeum" (probably misspelled that massivly) in Koblenz.

Oliver Cooper
Oliver Cooper

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Kayden Adams
Kayden Adams

Thats really cool

Justin Young
Justin Young

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James Parker
James Parker

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Blake Scott
Blake Scott

Here is a pretty cool vehicle. A T-64 converted int an IFV by Ukrainian firm Kharkov BTRZ.

Very well armored and relativly cheap to produce due to the large number of left over T-64s in Ukraine. It also simplifies logistics by having a common Tank/IFV chassies.

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William Baker
William Baker

fully enter Leopard 1

NUT
Ok I'm going.

Nathaniel Rogers
Nathaniel Rogers

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Daniel Reed
Daniel Reed

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Xavier Price
Xavier Price

I have plenty of pictures from the inside, but most of them include my hawt chink friend, and I dont want to accidentally doxx us.

Cramping three people inside was pretty difficult tho, but we managed it.

Owen White
Owen White

Don’t forget the assorted creative variations on “amerishart”.

Leo Lee
Leo Lee

Any clue why nobody else has deployed a similar vehicle to the AAV-7?

It seems to be a good concept and well liked by US Marines

Gabriel Sanders
Gabriel Sanders

The tank(s) you can enter also change once in a while. You can check which tanks are open on the official website.

William White
William White

personal favorite

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Ryan Martinez
Ryan Martinez

Leonardo upgrade to the m60 by Italy

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Nolan Richardson
Nolan Richardson

Any clue why nobody else has deployed a similar vehicle to the AAV-7?
The Koreans are building one, and the Turks have one, but most countries that have sizable marine forces just use the American AAV.

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Owen Adams
Owen Adams

something about it woos me

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Lucas Edwards
Lucas Edwards

That actually makes a lot of sense.

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Liam Martinez
Liam Martinez

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Jayden Allen
Jayden Allen

IDF has cool armor at the least

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Kevin Gray
Kevin Gray

I like the look of that thing.

Leo Parker
Leo Parker

Gives me a futuristic dystopian vibe, probably because its made by the Israelis.

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Gavin Howard
Gavin Howard

M60 upgrades are always great.

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Austin Carter
Austin Carter

That's an odd looking firearms the guy is holding. Anyone here that can identify it?

William Miller
William Miller

I cant really tell what that one is, but most crews are armed with m4 carbines in case their vehicle is disabled

Jeremiah Howard
Jeremiah Howard

I also guessed M4 Carbine first but that muzzle looks out of place. Maybe it's just me

Jose Flores
Jose Flores

Big iron in tank form.

I'd love to have one of those, looks like it'd be a lot of fun just cruising around in.

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Aaron Flores
Aaron Flores

They have their pro's and con's. We got them on the Cv's these days as well.

Matthew Ortiz
Matthew Ortiz

M113 painted in M90 splinter camo
damn, thats some quality camo, cant even see the pic of it

Oliver Lee
Oliver Lee

Must have forgotten to include it, here it is.

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Christopher Morgan
Christopher Morgan

Yeah, there is loads of debate on them in Sweden these days after you guys (Im assuming you are norwegian) got them. Whats the main drawbacks?

Gabriel White
Gabriel White

It is just 'up to' 25% less fuel, but still that is kinda a lot when you think of if.

Wyatt Evans
Wyatt Evans

Yeah. I think that the reduced vibrations, noice and weight are more important to point out then the fuel savings. Its also safer to drive over mines with it they say.

Noah Russell
Noah Russell

Strictly hypothetically speaking. How much pain and suffering can a battlegroup of 44 Leopard 2A7+'s, 12 Leopard 2A4's, 24 PzH2000's and 200 Pumas with panzergrenadieren armed with Cz Bren 2s cause? Especially if they are supported by 16 Airbus H225M and 20 H145 helicopters. Just out of curiosity.

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Ian Roberts
Ian Roberts

well the biggest drawbacks are the extra work required when fixing a de-tracking. On a old steel track you can just split it and drive it back on (more or less). On the rubber track you often need to lift up the vehicle using an ARV or similar. It also has shit grip on ice/packed snow. While normal tracks use "snowshoes" to deal with that, the rubber tracks need chains or similar. These break all the time and dont give nearly as much grip as the old snowshoes.
There has also been some issues with durability of the track when you cross 30+ tons, but Saucy is getting better at making the rubber deal with the load and heat. Not sure if we will ever get to MTB-levels of weight though.

Now, on the plus-side you get better range, muuuuch less vibrations(30 mm ammo vibrating so hard that shell and casing separated a few times), less maintenance on the day-to-day basis, a bit better psi and mobility, less noise signature (but still some, we dont fuck up hard-top roads as much as before, and less damage to road-wheels and sprockets.

About the noise, when we first got rubber tracks on the CV90 Mk1's as a test, the drivers kept talking about "all the strange noises and sounds" that they kept hearing and they wondered if things were broken. Turned out that it was just the normal engine sounds (turbo, transmission and so on) that they were hearing for the first time, as the rattle and banging of the old metal tracks had covered them up.

Nolan Bennett
Nolan Bennett

Whats the main drawbacks
As of now, they're only really suitable for vehicles of 40 tons or less, though this is being worked on. The US future tank program from the mid 90s was going to use them.
I've noticed you like asking this often- probably one of the best equipment set-ups in Eastern Europe.

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Landon Young
Landon Young

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Leo Kelly
Leo Kelly

So now mods are deleting posts that warn others of Armatards presence and activity, that is a whole new low for the already very low moderation quality.

Samuel Ward
Samuel Ward

Suck it nerds

Robert Kelly
Robert Kelly

And at the very same time Armatard is shitting up threads unharmed.

Jackson Foster
Jackson Foster

T-50 light tank, so cute!

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Lucas Jones
Lucas Jones

This dude used to be a Challenger 2 mechanic. Immigrated to Canada and now works on Leopard 2s. Does pretty cool videos about Jow Forums related shit.

youtube.com/channel/UCFWjEwhX6cSAKBQ28pufG3w

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Cooper Carter
Cooper Carter

Looks like a babby T-34.

Daniel Young
Daniel Young

Love me some Finnish armor. Simple as

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Evan Harris
Evan Harris

Erm... Yes it was.
Panther
Well protected from the front from the most common allied and russian tank guns of its time (75mm M3 and 76mm F-34) and the hull offered good protection vs later weapons (76mm M1, 17pdr, 85mm etc)
Leopard 1
No effective protection vs common tank and anti tank weapons of its time (100mm, 115mm AP(FS)DS, HEAT shells + ATGMs). Designed to be protected Vs older weapons such as 85mm. 1A3 was designed to be protected Vs 100mm AP from 1000m

Carter Watson
Carter Watson

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Eli Harris
Eli Harris

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Christian Murphy
Christian Murphy

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Michael Nelson
Michael Nelson

Noice, thanks for the info

Dominic Parker
Dominic Parker

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Samuel Williams
Samuel Williams

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Jose Wilson
Jose Wilson

asking this often

It's worth discussing, no? Hungary has been gearing up like crazy while almost everyone else in Europe is downsizing their militaries.

Brandon Campbell
Brandon Campbell

someone post centurions... please....

Jayden Taylor
Jayden Taylor

Hungary has been gearing up like crazy while almost everyone else in Europe is downsizing their militaries.
In Western Europe yes, but Former WARPAC nations have been bloatmaxxing their armed forces as of late.

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Jaxson Rodriguez
Jaxson Rodriguez

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Caleb Gray
Caleb Gray

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Ethan Carter
Ethan Carter

but they are bipedal not tracked... please.. the british centurion...

Bentley Jackson
Bentley Jackson

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Benjamin Sanders
Benjamin Sanders

PLease I just wanna see the tank my grandfather rode in...

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Hunter Flores
Hunter Flores

Grandfather. That's different, very well. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond.

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Noah Cooper
Noah Cooper

thank you! I love it so much.

Elijah Russell
Elijah Russell

REEEEEEEEE

Blake Harris
Blake Harris

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Nicholas Lewis
Nicholas Lewis

Sexiest tank ETA: now

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Kevin Lopez
Kevin Lopez

Wrong

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Michael Anderson
Michael Anderson

76mm gun with hvap was both accurate and deadly
HVSS increased flotation and mobility
scavenged armor made its hull able to withstand hits from long 75mm AT guns
battle hardened and experienced crew inside

the sherman thunderbolt variant is one of the most under appreciated vehicles

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Jeremiah Nguyen
Jeremiah Nguyen

variant
It's a one-off vehicle

Blake James
Blake James

they made about 70 of them, and they standarised the kit despite its ad hoc nature

Mason Jones
Mason Jones

Not even close

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Liam Roberts
Liam Roberts

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Aaron Davis
Aaron Davis

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Elijah Nelson
Elijah Nelson

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Asher Campbell
Asher Campbell

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Julian Stewart
Julian Stewart

IS-7
Gay. Only WoT kiddies like that shit

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Chase Collins
Chase Collins

leopard2eh6.jpg

Alexander Barnes
Alexander Barnes

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Asher Bell
Asher Bell

Legend has it that if you say IDF three times while looking at the mirror, /pol/ will show up and start kvetching about dead Palestinians.

Christian Scott
Christian Scott

TAM Argentinian medium tank. Latest IP version.

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Charles Miller
Charles Miller

Love the look of the Leopard 2A4M CAN.
Best looking upgrade of the 2A4

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Sebastian Taylor
Sebastian Taylor

side angle. This upgrade is by Elbit systems of Israel.

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Gabriel Myers
Gabriel Myers

Looks sexier than the faux bush you posted.
Only WoT kiddies like that shit
Oh no. I cant like the way it looks anymore. Lmao, nah.

Henry Mitchell
Henry Mitchell

TAM a cute

Anthony Young
Anthony Young

local tonk

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Joshua Ward
Joshua Ward

im pretty sure they cheer when either side dies

Easton Lewis
Easton Lewis

Some sort of museum scrapyard or something?

Carson Robinson
Carson Robinson

How does this fucking thing even work? Is the turret ring size the same? Did they weld the turret ring of a T-72 on a T-55 hull? Is it manually loaded now? I have so many questions

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Eli Wilson
Eli Wilson

museum, its just near a section next to a lot of unrestored aircraft

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Isaac Smith
Isaac Smith

Love me some westernized slavshit

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Adam Morales
Adam Morales

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Easton Davis
Easton Davis

M231 I believe

Elijah Ross
Elijah Ross

They still use those things?

Nicholas Brooks
Nicholas Brooks

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Jonathan Roberts
Jonathan Roberts

Dunno, you can see the coarse threading in the pic though

Logan Cook
Logan Cook

Oh goody. The designated pic dump thread. Not that I'm complaining. I always find some good pics here

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Matthew Torres
Matthew Torres

when you never get any action so you don't trim the bush

James Morris
James Morris

the japanese seem to like long pubes anyway

Colton Morgan
Colton Morgan

You call that bushy?

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Joshua Bennett
Joshua Bennett

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Jaxson Taylor
Jaxson Taylor

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Noah Williams
Noah Williams

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Nicholas Parker
Nicholas Parker

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Liam Rogers
Liam Rogers

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Aaron Perez
Aaron Perez

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Oliver Gutierrez
Oliver Gutierrez

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Cooper White
Cooper White

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Chase Morgan
Chase Morgan

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Luke Fisher
Luke Fisher

tracked

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Logan Bailey
Logan Bailey

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Carson Hughes
Carson Hughes

Did the Leo 1 actually ever see any combat?

Camden Bennett
Camden Bennett

Wars

Bosnian War
Kurdish–Turkish conflict
War in Afghanistan

Isn't it amazing what a simple google search can do?

Levi Robinson
Levi Robinson

becoming a challenger 2 gunner.

Ex-tanker here.
All crew members perform all functions on the tank, starting at either the loader or drivers position(since you are low rank).
Enjoy life in the motorpool.

Nicholas Mitchell
Nicholas Mitchell

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Dominic Wright
Dominic Wright

Hmm. Thats a new one for me. Here (Sweden) you are trained to a specific role in the tank, but you get to try the other roles out, so that you can at least manage it somewhat in case of an emergency.

Naturally the ones who then goes for it as a job gets more training on all roles.

Jonathan Baker
Jonathan Baker

Isn't it amazing how the tank on the left has like over double the RHA equivalent compared to the tank on the right while only weighting like 5 tonnes more?

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Noah Nelson
Noah Nelson

Armor of the that time didn't provide meaningful protection for the level of threat.

Anthony Anderson
Anthony Anderson

T-10M, T-55, T-62, M60, M60A1, hell even Centurion all had 200-270 mm LOS thickness in the turret and upper glacis. Leo 1 had 140 mm upper glacis and something like 100 mm turret front plus 70 mm gun mask.

Asher Lee
Asher Lee

Heat would went throug the armor like butter.

Connor Allen
Connor Allen

Leopard 1 was a result of the experience of the Eastern Front for the Germans.

Operational, tactical and strategical mobility was crucial and the engineers and Bundeswehr officers, which all served in the Wehrmacht, would have never accepted another Tiger or Panther.

Alexander White
Alexander White

If the Germans tell you something about tanks in a large scale total war maybe you should sit down and listen and not design messes like the Chieftain or M60 (or what the hell they did before the M60).
At least the Americans turned the M60 into a solid tank.

Ayden Jenkins
Ayden Jenkins

If the Germans tell you something about tanks in a large scale total war
You mean the war that they lost? Why was the German armor experience in WW2 more valuable than the experience of the USSR or western allies?

Easton Long
Easton Long

It's interesting.

British and American tank developement after the war were clearly a result of the own experience against the Germans.

While the experience on the Western front never played a role for the German post war tank developements.

You can smell the butthurtness in this post

Ayden Baker
Ayden Baker

Y-You're butthurt!
Not a substitute for an answer.

Thomas Moore
Thomas Moore

Chieftain

How could you design such a shit tank?

Jaxon Parker
Jaxon Parker

Which nation has the best names for its tracked vehicles?

Camden Jenkins
Camden Jenkins

Russian self propelled artillery flower names are absolute ebin.

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Jack Stewart
Jack Stewart

wars
Which means it was present somewhere in theater
Did the Leo1 actually fight anywhere?

Grayson Johnson
Grayson Johnson

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppp
youtube.com/watch?v=ZZzwmj-FN_Y

Brayden Butler
Brayden Butler

British and American tank developement after the war were clearly a result of the own experience against the Germans.

the M46 was an up engined M26, while the M26 was a result of development of the T20, which was intended as an eventual replacement for the M4 sherman

meeting german heavy armor did prompt mounting the T23 turret and 76mm gun on the M4 sherman much earlier than anticipated, but even that was something they always intended to do, they just didnt have impetus to do so until meeting heavy armor

Andrew Morgan
Andrew Morgan

much earlier than anticipated
they always intended to do
the sherman had been in production for 2 years when the 76s started rolling out

Logan Young
Logan Young

the 76mm gun was intended as a replacement for the 75mm gun, and the gun and turret was actually available for normandy

they just didnt feel the need to upgun them yet, as they didnt meet any threat the 75mm couldnt already handle, with the exception of the rarely encountered tiger, so they didnt think retraining crew for a new gun with a less potent HE was necessary until the panther was encountered in large numbers in france

Ryan Mitchell
Ryan Mitchell

the 76 was not intended as a replacement. thanks to its interchangeable turret front, the sherman was going to be armed with the 75mm the 3 inch gun, and the 105mm howitzer. the 3 inch gun didn't fit, so the 76mm was developed by august 1942. the 76mm didn't really fit either, ergo the t23 turret. but again, it couldn't have been "much earlier" than anticipated or else the war would've been over when they anticipated doing it

Cooper Nguyen
Cooper Nguyen

you can't ever achieve 100% deployment
also, they're gonna be spread around somewhat not all in one place at one time

but hypothetically that's a pretty good armored brigade that can throw a heavy punch

Wyatt Cox
Wyatt Cox

that's shopped, right??????

Adam Wilson
Adam Wilson

because contested landings are a thing of the past

Dylan Gomez
Dylan Gomez

M3 Grease Gun

Charles Perez
Charles Perez

Cramping three people inside was pretty difficult tho, but we managed it.

Into the vehicle? Or into your hot chink friend?

Asher Price
Asher Price

did people stop defending coasts or did coasts just cease to be valuable

because a land based invasion isnt always an option

Justin Hall
Justin Hall

people decided driving onto one in lightly armored vehicles was no long really worth it, despite all the marines' oorah

Thomas Lewis
Thomas Lewis

its more armored than other landing options like zodiacs or landing crafts

a non-contested landing isnt really possible unless you have a convenient ally nearby who will allow free use of ports

Nolan Long
Nolan Long

Nah, the Leopard 1 was a hit and run vehicle. HEAT went through armor like butter so they came up with the Leo 1, same as France did with the AMX-30.

Liam Clark
Liam Clark

Canadian Leopard C2 in Afghanistan

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Jayden Smith
Jayden Smith

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Josiah Turner
Josiah Turner

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Daniel Harris
Daniel Harris

That also came with a one day ban for all board ffs.

Even worse, seems like he got banned in the russian carrier thread, some of his posts in the first half of the thread got deleted with it, but then he must have changed his IP and then casually continued with his vatnik posting. Check the thread jowforums.com/thread/42003324/weapons
Sad that this has to be said, but what the mods are doing at the moment is absolute counterproductive and useless.

Joshua Brooks
Joshua Brooks

You are obsessed, lol.

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Jaxon Ramirez
Jaxon Ramirez

low effort bait

Lucas Nelson
Lucas Nelson

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Jose Watson
Jose Watson

electro-thermal cannon
how does it work user, please explain

Carson Gutierrez
Carson Gutierrez

The idea was to use plasma to ignite the propellant in a projectile, which both improves the uniformity of the propellant explosion and the velocity of the round fired. IIRC it required a large power supply and bulky equipment to use, though, but this was in the mid 1990s.
youtube.com/watch?v=2AZe8jOuGpo

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Isaac Lopez
Isaac Lopez

Yeah, and all of those tanks got thoroughly facefucked by shaped charge munitions. Basically by the time World War II ended, the concept of armoring a tank well enough to defeat MANPATS and ATGMS with RHA alone went out the window. Add into this the widespread adoption of subcaliber KEPs and the era of "thicker RHA = better protection" ceased to be. This is not to say that the theory of "survival by maneuver" that the Leopard 1 and AMX 30 were developed around would really have worked, but after the failure of the AMX 50, and numerous American and Soviet heavy tank projects, the results makes sense.

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John Brown
John Brown

Bradley's still had them in 2013 when I got out.

Samuel Hughes
Samuel Hughes

I second this. Shame their tanks don't carry names, at least as far as I'm aware. I think one of the T-90 Variants is called the "Vladimir", but I'm sure the Soviets could have come up with something better.

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Colton Williams
Colton Williams

Spring-loaded armor plates. That would be something to see.

Sebastian Edwards
Sebastian Edwards

No, why would it be?

Adam Watson
Adam Watson

So if someone has a coastline well defended they are safe from invasion these days?

Eli Ross
Eli Ross

Kek

Ethan Walker
Ethan Walker

four guys sitting on top of a steel tracked vehicle with their own hand held rocket launcher
can't hit shit

Josiah White
Josiah White

Not as port mounted weapons, right? Bradleys don't have those anymore

Sebastian Sanders
Sebastian Sanders

Looks shooped

Daniel Cook
Daniel Cook

Yeah. I can tell by the pixels!

Nathaniel Parker
Nathaniel Parker

Well, its for a parade naturally. In actual combat they sit inside and use it as an APC, dismounting to use their wepons.

Carson Hall
Carson Hall

It isnt
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2B1_Oka

Evan Diaz
Evan Diaz

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Logan Gonzalez
Logan Gonzalez

operation bollebank. Look it up.

Cameron King
Cameron King

What is your opinion of Italian tanks during WW2? Honestly talking most of the tank designs seemed to have been pretty okay, but their issue being that the Italians couldn't produce enough of them to the front. The only major downside that I know they had was that they tended to have riveted armor, but that also likely contributed to Italian tanks being rather light, so I wouldn't see it as just a negative.

Robert Hall
Robert Hall

literally just there to look "cool" for parade user.

Lucas Watson
Lucas Watson

As far as I know they were pretty good. Most nations had rather bad tanks before and during the war,with only Germany, Russia and the US really stepping ahead later due to their wartime experience. Italian tanks seems to at least be on par or better then the rest of the european counterparts (excluding Germany perhaps)

David Jenkins
David Jenkins

Another reason: most countries that have a marine force, have it so small that there is not point in developing your own vehicle, just buy some from the us.
Spain has a brigade, three infantry battalions plus assets, and we have just 15 or so aav7, plus a battalion with piranha.

Brayden Collins
Brayden Collins

The whole "tactical mobility" as protection instead of armor, in the amx30 and leopard1, could make sense at the time because without laser rangefinders and advanced digital ballistic computers, hitting a moving tank at long distance wasnt a easy task, specially with smaller than 120mm guns of the age. Anti tank missiles of the age didnt have a very long range, too.
Of course, things changed fast, and nowaday, smaller vehicles like ifv are almost as heavy as a leopard 1.

Andrew Baker
Andrew Baker

Current chally driver, you don't get to pick your trade. At bovington you're assigned as either a gunner or driver.

I love my job, but be ready for long ass hours maintaining the tank on top of all the usual army bullshit.

Personally I'd say go for it, army needs more bodies and it's an easy paycheck

Ian Walker
Ian Walker

not him, but why not loader?

Oliver Powell
Oliver Powell

Typically speaking the loader is a Lance corporal, effectively becoming the second in command of a tank. At least in the British army it goes driver (trooper), gunner(trooper), loader(Lance corporal), commander(corporal). There are always exceptions to rules though, the troop sergeants tank will have higher ranking crew. Doubly so for the officer commanding a squadron and the commanding officer of a regiment. They will have the likes of corporals and sergeants as crew members and typically be the most experienced blokes in the regiment.

Zachary Watson
Zachary Watson

Thanks, that's very interesting!

Dominic Morris
Dominic Morris

in WW2, germans had gunner as the second, driver as third, radio man at fourth, with loader at the bottom

what changed to make the gunner lower, and the loader more important?

Liam King
Liam King

I can't speak for any other army than the British unfortunately, but it's just the way it's always been.

From my experience the loader is second in command due to his responsibilities of not only loading the gun but crew welfare as well. On top of that he is responsible for a multitude of other things that mirror the commander such as navigation, communications, target acquisition and vehicle recognition.

As said earlier I'm currently a driver, my next position will be gunner. I look to the gunner for knowledge of his trade, he will look to the operator (loader) for knowledge of his trade and then the operator to the commander. Also looking at it this way, the operator is then the second most trained man on the tank so his knowledge, rank and responsibilities seem to go hand in hand with him being second in command

Dylan Thomas
Dylan Thomas

Why does the 2A4's turret design look so revolting to me but the 2A5's turret looks great.

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Logan Gomez
Logan Gomez

the m11/39 had a shit transmission and a bit of an underpowered engine.

Jason Thompson
Jason Thompson

Well, people misunderstand "mobility" purely of being fast (which the Leopard 1 actually was of course). youtube.com/watch?v=mlCRGD3rXt8

The term "mobility" was for the German planers way more than just being a fast tank. They learned that after the Wehrmacht adapted the heavier tanks like Tiger and Panther they were complete incapable of actually doing any large scale operations.
The German tanks became complete reactionary elements, which archived high kill ratios but were incapable of carrying any offensive operations.

So the Leopard 1 was supposed to be a fast tank, with a small logistics and maintenance footprint and easy to maintain by enlists.
The complete opposite of other NATO tanks at the time which were designed to intercept enemy forces but it took them decades to accept you actually need to gain ground to win a war (at least the Americans, the British never developed a meaningful strategy for their armored forces).

Jace Morales
Jace Morales

I can't speak for any other army than the British unfortunately, but it's just the way it's always been.

lol, no.

table of organization and equipment is pretty clear about it.

The platoon leader is E7
The other two (or three) tank commanders are E6
Gunners are E5
Driver and loaders are either E4 or E3.

Tyler Morales
Tyler Morales

Yes and they do. At least the ones we rode in did.

Lincoln Hill
Lincoln Hill

It makes no sense to have the loader in the second highest position.

A person which only does what the commander or gunner tell him to load and otherwise only have a support role for the gunner or driver.

Parker Adams
Parker Adams

And an RPG-7 can easily pen 600mm, at the time it was decided you couldn't protect a MBT from anti-tank weapons so it wasn't worth the weight penalty of having more than arty / gp bomb fragment protection.

Xavier Lewis
Xavier Lewis

Even the late war Panzerfaust 150 was capable of penetrating over 300mm RHA.

Owen Morgan
Owen Morgan

Mongoloid

Jaxson Carter
Jaxson Carter

the ports are blocked off by additional armor plates. Bradleys don't have firing ports since at least Desert Storm

Charles Moore
Charles Moore

He was a mongoloid

James Rivera
James Rivera

What the fuck? Platoon leaders are an O2. Are you brain damaged?

Henry Hughes
Henry Hughes

the rear firing ports are retained

Jackson Bailey
Jackson Bailey

Yeah, but after all, a shitload of tanks had that back in those days.

John Nelson
John Nelson

Neat. Guess you learn something new every day.

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Michael Adams
Michael Adams

aren't they often concealed by ERA tiles?

Gavin Lopez
Gavin Lopez

RPG-7 can easily pen 600mm
260 mm with 1961 PG-7V.

Kayden Rodriguez
Kayden Rodriguez

what is PG-7VR

Bentley Brooks
Bentley Brooks

PG-7VR
Something that didn't exist until over 20 years after the Leopard 1 and AMX30

Camden Howard
Camden Howard

Leopard 1 and AMX30
Completely negated by PG-7V in basic configuration.

Brayden Long
Brayden Long

Loader is the next best position to crew commander a tank if he needs to take over. Driver and Gunner have very little visibility and 0 situational awareness.

Having a gunner be 2IC is fucking retarded. Even a crewman that is dumber than a fucking stone can laze and blaze targets.

Alexander Allen
Alexander Allen

A loader's only job is to load

Jason Clark
Jason Clark

Just graduated basic training portion of 19Kilo osut today, and I start tank school Monday. Can't fucking wait, I'm excited as hell.

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David James
David James

Come think of it riveted armor seems to be extremely underrated. Sure it has issues with the rivets flying around, but welded and cast armor do also spall, and clever design should make the bolts less of an issue. Furthermore, in return for this increased problem with spalling, riveted armor is significantly lighter than other types of armor, and for example the Italian tanks were often only half as heavy as equivalently armed and armored foreign tanks. I suspect that the reason riveted armor was phased out was mostly because cast and welded armor are easier to make NBC resistant, and quite possibly advances in armor design made post ww2 cast and welded armor equally light as riveted one.

Josiah Ward
Josiah Ward

riveted armor is significantly lighter than other types of armor
you need to rivet things to a frame. welded or cast armor is a structural member so no frame is needed, and weight it saved

Adam Perez
Adam Perez

That would inuitively make sense, but as far as I know riveted armor was still lighter. So much so that it was used in US tank destroyers to save weight. I am actually interested to know what the reason for this counterinuitive result is and I hope somebody can explain it.

Daniel Walker
Daniel Walker

Somewhat related, somewhat off-topic, amateur welder here: How in the hell do they heattreat armor? I get quenching a plate, but once you get thick enough you will only harden the surface, the inside would stay soft... Going beyond that, how do they harden welded plates? Do they have to weld the whole thing up and then quench entire tank chassis? Wouldn't that crack? Or are the welds just not hardened?

Ryder Rogers
Ryder Rogers

So much so that it was used in US tank destroyers to save weight
which TDs were these, user?

Charles Cooper
Charles Cooper

harden the surface
That's why they called 'face-hardened.' Also not everybody did it. The Sherman had a cast hull. Which is why if you look at pics of dead kraut tanks, the hole has splatters around it, whereas the Sherman KOed sports a big puckered hole.

I forget the merits and demerits for each as far as resisting AP shells goes.

Kevin Perry
Kevin Perry

What does a used tank cost and how can I re-militarize it once I have it?

Jose Green
Jose Green

face hardened armor ceased to be used because it turned out to not really do anything against newer shells
rolled armor can only be made in flat sections that had to be welded later on
cast armor was 10% softer than rolled armor, but spalled less and could be made into different shapes to offset the weakness with curving

germans went with rolled armor because they didnt have any casting facilities, but had a large amount of skilled welders
US originally went with cast on the M4A1, since it allowed them to cast the hull in a single go, but later went with a welded hull with a cast turret

Andrew Cook
Andrew Cook

So much so that it was used in US tank destroyers to save weight.
(x) doubt

Liam Davis
Liam Davis

The main reason tanks like the Leo 1 and the AMX 30 basically gave up on armor is because anti tank rounds were becoming WAY to good.

To effectively stop these rounds you'd need shit tons of steel plate. Effectively making a super heavy tank.

Andrew Perez
Andrew Perez

I knew somebody would know about the fine details.

Nathan Murphy
Nathan Murphy

If I were a enemy commander and I knew the 113's coming at me were rubber tracked, I could think I've several tactical advantages off the top of my head I could use against these things...

Owen Cox
Owen Cox

go get 'em, user tzu

Cooper Moore
Cooper Moore

something about upgraded old tech is really appealing

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Nathan Richardson
Nathan Richardson

I love italian and japanese tanks, and I cut them alot of slack relative to how they preformed during the war. If the italians had rolled out with the m15/42 in 1940 it would have been an excellent tank, but it seemed like they were always playing catchup with generally outdated designs. If they had the p40 ready to fight in africa it would have been a fairly good tank alongside its competitors as well. If you want to look at successful italian armor the autoblindo/saharina armored cars and the semovente assault gun/spgs were considered to be good to very good. I personally adore the semovente 90/53.

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Eli Parker
Eli Parker

Are you dumb?

Michael Wood
Michael Wood

Loader are second in command

In what fucking world?

Levi Thompson
Levi Thompson

The one were people realize a half-asleep corporal in a gunner's hole is a bad choice to command a 60 ton machine going 40 clicks an hour in reverse over shitty terrain if the comd gets wacked or is busy.

Leo Williams
Leo Williams

Who's gonna load the gun then?

Leo Mitchell
Leo Mitchell

I know, right?

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Nathan Baker
Nathan Baker

Guy is full of shit.

Jayden Roberts
Jayden Roberts

Shame their tanks don't carry names, at least as far as I'm aware.
T-64B is called Sosna - "pine tree", T-80UD is called Beryoza - "birch tree". T-72 is called Ural. T-90 is indeed Vladimir in honour of the chief designer, T-90S is Bhishma, T-90AM and T-90M are sometimes called Proryv - "breakthrough", but that's a R&D code, not really a name.
And yeah, I'd really love them to rather proceed with tree names.

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Landon Gray
Landon Gray

Are you sure about that?

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Ethan Hughes
Ethan Hughes

at the time it was decided you couldn't protect a MBT from anti-tank weapons
From what anti-tank weapons, all these tanks are late 40s-50s developments. RPG-7 entered service in early 60s with 260 mm penetration and yes, it was a big step forward, but it physically could not affect the development process that happened years ago. And in mid-late 60s Soviet introduced T-64 and T-64A that changed tank development forever.

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Chase Murphy
Chase Murphy

The countries were well aware of the massive firepower to armor gap of that time.
The cheap SS.11, developed and deployed in the 50s, was capable of penetrating over 600mm RHA - with an effective range of 3km.

The only advantage of tanks were there high tactical and operational mobility.

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Aaron Ross
Aaron Ross

youtube.com/watch?v=VFtDZL3lpNk

Luke Long
Luke Long

Congratulations, lad

Ryan Ortiz
Ryan Ortiz

Guy seems like a tool of the ZOG.

Jack Butler
Jack Butler

Combat effectiveness of SS.10 in Algeria was 66% according to the French. We are talking about ineffective, expensive early ATGMs.

Jason Howard
Jason Howard

From what anti-tank weapons
RPG-2
PG-9
AT-1,2,3
SSM-A-23
Vigilant
ENTAC
M72
M20

Aiden Butler
Aiden Butler

SS.11 was $1900 in the 60s.

It was a cheap anti-tank weapon used in the entire world.

Michael Campbell
Michael Campbell

in the 60s

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Joseph Martin
Joseph Martin

no argument greentext

Jonathan Cox
Jonathan Cox

60s

Xavier Price
Xavier Price

developed and deployed in the 50s.

Jordan Gomez
Jordan Gomez

RPG-2
200 mm.
SSM-A-23
Cancelled.
PG-9
AT-1,2,3
SSM-A-23
Vigilant
M72
M20
60s.
ENTAC
Ok.
In the 50s it were ineffective, expensive early ATGMs.

Matthew Wilson
Matthew Wilson

M20 received its type designation in 1944. In that vein, the Bazookas, M18-20-40 Recoiless Rifles, Type 4, Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck, and PIAT had already gone a long way in dissuading tank designers from slapping thicker chunks of solid RHA onto tanks and calling it a day. Keep in mind that experiments with composite cored armor went way back; it wasn't like these people saw RHA as the absolute best option. Like anything, it was a compromise.
You have to remember that heavy armoring on tanks at that point (ie, production vehicles built without composite armoring of any sort) was primarily motivated by the need to stop full and sub-caliber AP rounds fired by other tanks; while these thicknesses of armor could, in some cases, defeat shaped-charge munitions, it was generally understood that if you (as a tanker) had put yourself into a position where MANPATS-wielding infantry could effectively fire upon you, you were already fucked. In any case, the destructive capabilities of shaped-charged munitions on armor was well understood long before any of these tanks were designed. The major factors were in play besides this, of course, but there was already an established understanding of "If it happens, it happens, so just try not to let it happen."

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Julian Davis
Julian Davis

HEAT became from a last resort infantry weapon to an apocalyptic threat with guided missiles within two decades.

Jose Miller
Jose Miller

...go on..

Adam Adams
Adam Adams

Kinda depends on where you live i have seen T-72s go for around 10 000 euro. Remilling them would probably be pretty difficult tho.

Owen King
Owen King

had already gone a long way in dissuading tank designers from slapping thicker chunks of solid RHA onto tanks and calling it a day
Except post-WWII years is exactly when the very concept of MBT was conceived.
You have to remember that heavy armoring on tanks at that point (ie, production vehicles built without composite armoring of any sort)
This absolutely did not happen outside of the USSR until way, way after the 60s. The heavier armoured tank designs like M60A1, Chieftain, Strv 103 still used nothing but plain armour, yet achieving somewhat high LOS values, albeit at the cost of immense increase in weight.
it was generally understood that if you (as a tanker) had put yourself into a position where MANPATS-wielding infantry could effectively fire upon you, you were already fucked
True, which is why it is barely relevant to bring up a couple of very early French ATGM designs to justify the paper thin armour of Leo 1 and AMX-30. The main threat to tanks at that time was KE penetrators fired by other tanks, while the threat of ATGM remained scarce. It wasn't until the USSR began to introduce GLATGM with T-64B that tank designers clutched their heads seeking to develop composite, explosive and non-explosive reactive armour.

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Austin Wood
Austin Wood

Just join Russian Army.

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Asher Allen
Asher Allen

You have no fucking idea.

Levi Kelly
Levi Kelly

Ok.

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Michael Johnson
Michael Johnson

The heavier armoured tank designs like M60A1, Chieftain, Strv 103
Strv 103

The Strv 103 was a lot of things, but well-armored wasnt one of them. It had only a 70mm plate over the upper front, everything else was around 30 - 40mm

Landon James
Landon James

But what if you want to drive a tanke and not be assraped/get hiv?

Christopher Lewis
Christopher Lewis

What is LOS?
Well, then you should keep away from the USN for your own good.

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Cameron Butler
Cameron Butler

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Austin Price
Austin Price

Again I can only speak for a British armoured regiment, as I currently serve in one. I'm guessing by your use of "E3" etc that you're referring to American armoured structure, which may well be true but I have no experience or knowledge on that subject.

Gavin Allen
Gavin Allen

And people said simply pile driving the enemy straight to London was a bad idea

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Jason Flores
Jason Flores

The m10 tank destroyer had riveted armor according to the sources I've been able to find.

Julian Stewart
Julian Stewart

Well, then you should keep away from the USN for your own good.

Öretty sure there is both less rape ande HIV in the US Navy compared to the Russian Army.

Ayden Lewis
Ayden Lewis

You are full of shit.

Nolan Gonzalez
Nolan Gonzalez

wheely bois

Juan Turner
Juan Turner

Sure thing bud.

If anyone else has any questions about the CR2, or just the britbong army in general ask away

Kevin Clark
Kevin Clark

Prove your bullshit.

Michael Collins
Michael Collins

Not even the English can be that retarded.

(make the dumb guy who is isolated from the rest of the crew the second in command).

Also if you are actually British tanker you wouldn't call it loader but operator.

Jace Campbell
Jace Campbell

If you look at my previous posts I did call that position the operator. As for your other point the only isolated crew member is the driver in the hull.

The rest of the crew are in the fighting compartment very much so close together.

Unfortunately I can't find anything online to back up my claims of the operator being the 2IC. But that is indeed how a British army tank crew works. As I previously deferred it may well be different in different nations tank crews

Brody Davis
Brody Davis

which sources say that? i'm genuinely curious. thanks

Camden Sullivan
Camden Sullivan

There she is, muh baby

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Aiden Baker
Aiden Baker

she

Jack Murphy
Jack Murphy

The gunner generally serves as the assistant TC and assumes the responsibilities of the tank
commander as required.

Christopher James
Christopher James

this is munster? I went there 2 years ago, don't remember the Leo 2 A5

Are the Panzer II and the RU 251 restored yet?

Andrew Anderson
Andrew Anderson

Yes, it is Munster. And that's a Leopard 2 TVM Max, one of the prototypes that became the Leopard 2A5, and it is new to the museum.

Joshua Walker
Joshua Walker

Didnt see any Ru 251, but there was indeed a restored Pz II

Liam Ross
Liam Ross

An user here posted that his dad was a Kiowa co-pilot and "re-purposed" a Bradley's M231 as a kind of PDW and target designation device. Their magazines were typically loaded with just tracers and he could point use it to point out ground targets to his pilot.

Brandon Gomez
Brandon Gomez

impressive since it didn't have any sights

Eli Parker
Eli Parker

How does this fucking thing even work?
Only a fool would underestimate the works of Alibubba. There are no more impressive feats nigger rigging in the entire world than sand nigger rigging.

Bentley Morris
Bentley Morris

Pic related

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Ethan Thompson
Ethan Thompson

The M10 did not have riveted armor. It had mounts for applique which was never added.

Luke Barnes
Luke Barnes

Super Sherman
No such thing

Anthony Young
Anthony Young

Remembering the type 4, you're a fucking champion of my heart user

Aaron Sullivan
Aaron Sullivan

its a post war name, it was just sherman or M51 in the day, but its a name that stuck like sherman jumbo

so its an acceptable way to refer to it, even if it wasnt its wartime name

Hudson Cook
Hudson Cook

T-72's turret ring is 2.16m, T-54/55's is 1.82m.
sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic/754-syrian-tanks-at-war-some-pictures-and-words-between-them/?do=findComment&comment=124331

Logan Wilson
Logan Wilson

Jumbo was used during the war to describe the E2, there's zero evidence of M-50s or M-51s being called "Super Shermans" beyond uncited posts on the internet. Same with "Isherman".

William Nelson
William Nelson

That's not a combat vehicle user, that's a Gavin.

Brandon Walker
Brandon Walker

macierewicz ,kurwa

Isaac Parker
Isaac Parker

Well done dude

Justin Cook
Justin Cook

male

Jose Martinez
Jose Martinez

Attached: 1519723675002.jpg (199 KB, 740x696)

Adrian Cook
Adrian Cook

Gavin

Attached: 1544371583703.png (214 KB, 314x362)

Parker Nguyen
Parker Nguyen

combatreform.org/lavdanger.htm
Ahh the gavin, now that was a vehicle.

Henry Johnson
Henry Johnson

That video's focus on digital systems intelligently sorting information and presenting them via LCDs galore reminds me of the Carmel project.
youtube.com/watch?v=c2iUGAqAhDE

Ayden Roberts
Ayden Roberts

I played enough minecraft-like games to know that repeating structures looks better then throwing random shapes together. The A5 is a wedge ontop of a wedge, while the A4 is a big box on a smooth wedge. There´s some feng shui shit going on with those shapes not flowing with each other.

Nolan Ortiz
Nolan Ortiz

DELET

Bentley Evans
Bentley Evans

it was about the same on the hull, and that particular variant of the leo had better turret armour iirc.

Juan Johnson
Juan Johnson

by actually following the design criteria (multifuel engine) laid out by those retards at NATO
no one else even bothered trying

Nathaniel Jenkins
Nathaniel Jenkins

do you know if the challenger II upgrade is happening anytime soon? Will it be with the new rhinemetal turret if so?

Luke Ortiz
Luke Ortiz

So what we have been told is that the technology being used for the life extension program is now being put towards the next generation of tank, wonderfully named, the Challenger 3.

Apparently the MoD realised that pumping 700 million into the program wasn't going to be enough to save the aging platform. According to the commanding officer of my regiment (all news has been internal. I'm yet to even hear a mention of chally3 on the internet so some of this could be wrong) they have doubled the funding and given rhinemettal the contract. We're gonna be getting both the new turret with smooth bore gun and a new power pack as well as multiple smaller upgrades such as the thermal imager. Coming from both gunners and commanders the CR2s TI is dog shit. Even our REME techs struggle to fix them when they break.

On top of all this the type 56 regiment structure is being modified. Current armoured regiments have 3 armour, 1 recce and 1 hq squadron. In the new shake up, it will be 4 armour and 1 hq with a troop sized recce packet. It's also been told that since AJAX is taking so damn long to enter service that the KRH are staying on the chally platform for another 5 years.

I've probly missed something so any more questions ask away

Benjamin Hill
Benjamin Hill

smooth bore gun
it's about goddamn time. good luck, bongtanker. you're becoming quite endangered

Adam Sullivan
Adam Sullivan

the next generation of tank, wonderfully named, the Challenger 3.
Who's going to build it? The Leeds factory was torn down ages ago.

Eli White
Eli White

I have no idea, I assume it's going to be rhinemettal or one of their subsidiaries. They actually just recently uploaded a couple of short videos on YouTube regarding tech that will be put onto the new platform which included a new smoke discharger system and an APS suite

Nathaniel Cooper
Nathaniel Cooper

Was watching some nice tanks at Finland this Friday. Will post a few pictures

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David Ross
David Ross

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Caleb Howard
Caleb Howard

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Cooper Flores
Cooper Flores

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Andrew Howard
Andrew Howard

not all are mine but from the same place still

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James Parker
James Parker

I love Finnish tanks. What sort of an event was this?

Samuel Allen
Samuel Allen

Finnish armor forces turned 100 years old this year. To celebrate the past century Häme Armoured Battalion (HÄMPSP) hosted a parade and battle reenactmen both open for public.

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Colton Jenkins
Colton Jenkins

Wish I can go to Finland myself one day. Seems like an interesting country

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