Give me the skinny on the Freedom Class

.t assblasted Lockheed rep

Build something that's not a turd for once and maybe you'll get less flak

.t actual mouth breathing retard.

You do realize another company also won the contract, right fucktard? You do realize another company failed, right?

It would have been a somewhat useful ship if it was half the price.

>their fuckup makes our fuckup lool less bad

no, that just means my taxes are funding two fuck ups instead of one

>cant aim down

wut. It has a -10 degrees of depression.

So it's a marginally better Type 23 for double the price?

Great, now that we both established that your orginal post is full of fucking shit, we can move on now. Because if "both" are fuck ups and one failed, then that means there was no """"""illusion of competition""""""".

Oh wait, your retarded mouthbreathing double thinking ass will just accept both statements and keep thinking you are right.

Freedom Class is a good ship if you compare it to others of the same line.

For example, the Bykov patrol ship used for patrolling the sea lanes against pirates. It is also modular but not as high tech as Freedom. Freedom is faster, bigger, heavier and better. Bykov does not have AA. It only carries standard containers while Freedom can carry customised modules that works.

So it can do exactly what a normal ship can do, but it also can't do anything else they do.

Well the freedom is 1000 tons lighter, and goes twice as fast while being 30 years newer, sure.

Oh, and its nearly the exact same price when accounting for inflation of the pound.

its a lot smaller, leaner, and less gas guzzling than a destroyer

full sized missiles are not necessary to combat small asymmetrical threats, with a relatively small crew of 40
it does exactly what it was made to do, combat small coastal threats

>its a lot smaller, leaner, and less gas guzzling than a destroyer

Are you retarded? It's not an Prius.

It's an overpriced, underachieving failed minesweeper re-roled as a "speed boat killer" because that's all it can do.

>if i say something is true, than it is true!

That’s what it was mostly designed to do tho go fightvoff Iranian boats

Saying "it can fight speedboats" is like having a gun that fails and marketing it as the greatest noise maker

It's a ship that takes a lot of unwarranted flak because literally nobody actually understands what it's intended role is.

LCS was never meant to be a frigate replacement or even a corvette. It was a ship meant to specialize in key functions that full size Burkes were not suited for, namely engagement of small surface targets, mine clearing, and ASW in shallower waters.

Unfortunately, these started coming out at the same time the OHPs were getting retired, so people assumed they were supposed to be OHP replacements and then went "REEEEEE, WHY CAN'T THIS SHIP DESIGNED TO FIGHT SPEEDBOATS SHOOT DOWN JETS AND BALLISTIC MISSILES?"

Now, the whole module thing and "let's not decide on a single class and build two different ship lines at the same time" was rightfully dumb, but the concept of the LCS was sound.

Mine warfare module is still failing

news.usni.org/2019/01/25/lcs-mission-package-office-focused-on-test-fielding-ioc-dates-continue-to-slip

They're not expecting IOC before 2022 now.

It's been in service since 2008. It's an absolute farce.

Your excuses would have credibility if it wasn't for all the promised features that failed.

its meant to operate in coastal areas with minimal crew

it does not need to fight other warships, so it does not need to be armed so heavily
it will already outgun nearly all the tsrgets it will face, its main importance is speed, small crew, and its fuel efficiency
sending a full sized destroyer will be sending a much heavier vessel whose greater armaments will be of questionable value

>muh mines!
The last cry of the LCS hater.

This is more just the navy pushing the ships out of the yard before all the modules were ready rather than any sort of failure. And this is an issue that all first of class suffer pretty heavily from.

It's already a complete failure at 1/3rd of its intended roles. How do you think that's a win.

First of class?

There's seven of them finished.

It's been in active service for eleven years.

The package IOC is five years overdue.

They also have the potential to be handy little ASW platforms. They’re designed to be easily modified, and we’re gonna have a metric fuckton of them on hand, so I suspect you’ll end up seeing a lot of interesting versions of the ship.

350 million! A Karakurt-class corvette is around 35 million.

Thats only because the ruble is worth less than fecal matter.

it costs 2 billion rubles.

No, it doesn't have the radar, the ASW capabilities or the air defense. It's a smaller, less capable class of ship fulfiling a completely diferent role.

>its meant to operate in coastal areas with minimal crew
So it's a ship suited for the coastguard, not the navy?

>Type 23
Its a better River for 3x the price.

>They're so bad they're already attempting to replace them.

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>not in service yet due to congressional slash and whine
>failure

They look good and that's all that matters in modern naval warfare.
Joking aside, they seem like an interesting concept even if there were some problems with the first ships in both the Freedom and Independence classes. The role of LCS hasn't been needed yet (outsider of anti-piracy missions) but it's one which will come up at some point. Not like the Zumwalt gunfire support idea which was based on backwards thinking; dealing with attack boats, patrolling coastal waters, and light ASW duty, as the LCS is designed for will be valuable.

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>using Bill Nye the lying guy to call others retarded

Why not just buy ships from a country that knows littoral combat?

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That's the best looking frigate/corvette I've ever seen

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The Visby class is a thing of beauty.

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>They also have the potential to be handy little ASW platforms.
>No hull mounted sonar
>Standard 2 helicopters

Not so sure about that.

We cant do that, it would coast half as much for a ship that works.
One cant just turn USN procurement strategy on its head like that.

They'd make awesome Coast Guard cutters.

Very nice. How the stern hangs over the water tickles me.

That's what the DART system is supposed to be, giving the LCS a towed array and the helicopters have their own ASW equipment.

Thats still pretty lackluster for ASW duties, especially when the Freedom class carries only one seahawk.

Considering the LCS is meant to do primarily shallow water stuff, against insurgent & pirate boats, I'm not sure how big of an ASW role they will need to play. If the Navy thinks there will be subs around then they will have the proper ships and aircraft to deal with that kind of threat.

>tinfoil bullshit
>competition specs being written so the desired outcome is assured
have you looked into US procurement at any time during the last 200 years

>Why not just buy ships from a country that knows littoral combat?

Image not related?

You haven't.

Needs more dakka

I prefer the Independence Class
Uses more components already aboard other ships in the fleet, larger flight deck and multimission bay, more stable in most sea states, better potential for evolution (VLS)

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Corporate welfare? No. They're just a result of terrible policy decisions driven by idiotic post cold war thinking and continued budget cuts. The concept behind having a ship with modules so it can specialize in whatever role it's needed for at the time, then swap out modules again later on isn't a bad idea after all.

The class's capabilities are fine but my god they are so ugly.

The frigate conversion proposal is less so
narrower superstructure, step on aft, boats

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Not sure what the final concept looks like
but capabilities have been established

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Then again, lockmart's cancelled ffg(x) isn't too bad either

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>The Visby class is a thing of beauty.
Why has no one copied the visby carbon fiber composite hull design? No corrosion and it is half the weight of a comparable steel hull.

I think the bigger problems are the bow being so pointy & sleek and going from that to flat & fat. I could appreciate the fore end and superstructure but I couldn't even describe how to fix the aft.
Like better because it follows a smoother transition throughout the width of the hull.

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Yeah, but they will never be on Iran's coast killing their ASM carrying speedboats because they are defenseless.

It's literally an anti-Somalian piracy ship that costs over a billion dollars. Might work for drug smugglers from Central America.

How many LCS has the Navy built, 30? That's a dozen Flt3 Burke's.

Because the USN is not interested in corvettes designed and sized to run circles around their own territorial waters?

LCS is the Tucano of the Navy.

I see no reason why the USN would not buy Corvette and then keep them forward deployed.

You mean the NSM they are being fit with?

These are the shitty ones that keep getting into accidents and breaking down before making it out of the Great Lakes, right?

Are they also the ones designed to have galvanic corrosion issues in their water jets?

But the Tucano doesn't cost half the price of a F18.

>because they are defenseless.
despite not being armed like a destroyer, they still carry more firepower than any speedboat, and have radar and fire control to significantly out range any threat they might face in their theatre

I don't know shit about ships in general but in that photo that ship looks Jow Forumsomfy af.

>littoral combat vessel, for shallow water operations
*Blows up your botte*

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This. Freedom class on other hand is sexy as hell.

seems like shit, 3500 ton ship with 1 gun, short range anti air and hellfires. it seems outclassed by ships 1/3 it's mass.

aren't stealth ships a fucking retarded idea ? you're still easily detectable on radar within any reasonable engagement range because you're huge and are still easily trackable on satellites.
seems like big high powered ECM systems would be a better idea to defend against ASMs.

The rest of the world is doing more with less. The Russian Gorshkov class frigate has a full spectrum arsenal including VLS cells for anti ship missiles, cruise missiles, and anti-air missiles, as well as almost every other weapon system you could ask for and it's only a bit heavier than the Freedom Class.

A lot of European navies are also going down this route, making frigate sized ships loaded with weaponry you'd only normally see on destroyer sized vessels.

But then we have the Littoral Combat Ships. Almost no weaponry. Almost no anti-air capability. Just empty hulks with no real combat potential.

Near as I can see these things were designed to be glorified patrol boats. In a modern naval engagement what would their purpose even be?

I strongly believe these things are going to be donated to the Coast Guard.

It is criminally underrated for what it's role is going to be. I am not necessarily a fan of the program but it seems like few people understand what it's mission role has become.

The LCS program was completely restructured in 2017 and will do away with the whole "molecularity" concept and assign LCS division with mission specific roles for each LCS squadron. We are done with the whole fluidity mix match headaches that plagued the program from the start.

What people never seem to understand is that these ships are designed to do everything that the Burke and Ticonderoga aren't suppose to. They are tailor made to focus on low end threats and conflict, be it mine countermeasure operations, ASW, fishery patrols, or partner building exercises. The entire point of the program is to free up Burkes and Ticos so that they can refocus on training for near peer surface engagements, not parking in the Persian gulf or off the coast of africa and assisting in COIN, the Navy is going back to training to fight other Navies, but they still need ships that can fill the low end portfolio, which is exactly what the LCS fills. They will be fantastic in the western pacific, and need be they are being outfitted with 8 NSMs so that they can provide a respectable ASuW capability if they had to integrate into a surface action group, deploying with a MH-60R and a MQ-8C Fire scout simultaneously gives it respectable OTH capacity.

Im also not really sure why people are saying the modules are terribad, because what I've read is indicating otherwise, outside of teething problems/mismanagement. The ASW module is apparently world class and is going to become the FFG(X)s ASW suite, and the MCM capability has apparently impressed Nordic countries, who are experts in MCM, even if there are still kinks to iron out.
This isn't even touching on the insane mothership capabilities it has for future operations with UUVs

pic not related

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Pretty sure the LCS would be eaten alive off of any hostile coast. Yemen, Iran, especially the south China Sea.

The couldn't defend themselves from determined air attack or from anti ship missiles.

As long as they are tasked with anti piracy and drug smugglers missions, they should be fine.

The Gorshkov are too slow to perform any of the Freedom's roles and at more then a third more displacement isn't exactly a 'little' bigger. It's a baby destroyer for people that can't afford destroyers and don't mind going slow.

Yeah, we should scrap the plan to replace the entire US navy with them and only buy a few to perform delicate operations in shallow water where speed and small size matter more then firepower. Just keep the super carriers, destroyers, submarines and aircraft to handle countering anti-ship installations.

ECM works much better with lower RCS and it's not actually that hard to make a big difference in cross section, even if it is extremely hard to make a VLO ship.
There are also diminishing returns for EW in regards to cost and effectiveness, a cutting edge and expensive EW suite might not stack up to a cheap EW suite in the near future.

If the boat cost what it should people would not have a problem with it.

The problem is we are getting a OPV/FFG hybrid for ~$360 million, not counting the cost of the mission modules. The RN is buying River OPVs for the same role - freeing up Type 23/26/45s for other things - for a tiny fraction of that. On the higher end side all but the largest of Eurofrigates are cheaper despite tiny production runs and massively increased tonnage.

A Freedom class LCS costs more then a Iver Huitfeldt FFG, that's insane.

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Yes, but to the mutts that weird looking fucker is considered to be a highly educated scientist.

>The couldn't defend themselves from determined air attack or from anti ship missiles.
>a ship designed for asymmetrical warfare is useless because it can be destroyed in a conventional war

using a full sized destroyer in shallow waters can be done, but would be a total waste of money, crew, and its equipment

>A new military thing that they just made is more expensive
>WHY IS IT MORE EXPENSIVE GUYS IT SHOULD BE THE SAME PRICE
>Even though the parts are 30 years newer and it has teething problems coming out of R&D that we should expect to happen because they've only been there on every single new piece of equipment ever made

The price will drop eventually, you dumbass. Everything new is more expensive. Eventually it won't be new anymore, and as the parts and pieces of the thing become more commonplace and easier to produce in huge batches, the price per unit will settle a bit. Also

>INFLATION INFLATION INFLATION
We has it.

>Surprised that a fucking military ship designed to engage other ships in battle costs a third of a billion dollars

You really should just be happy with the fact that an American company isn't making it for you and settle for 360mil, instead of 1.2 billion per unit or something. Let us just marvel at the fact that they constructed it and it works.

>So it's a marginally better Type 23
it has no real ASW capability, no towed sonar, no accoustic dampening measures to the hull and not a great shipboard sonar, no torpedoes and its aviation facilities are adequate at best.

its gun is significantly less effective, it mounts no ASM and no real AAW.

the type 23 is decades old and its replacement is already starting to be constructed - type 26s are awesome- but the only real option a LCS has against one is to run and hope the helo doesnt put a ASM into it before it gets clear

Yeah, but there's no realistic scenario where an LCS is going to have large surface craft threats in the AO. It's made to handle fast movers and makeshift mine-layers. Much like complaining that it lacks armor, this ignores the fact that it's part of a fleet and made to perform a specialized mission.

look at the KC-X bidding process and tell me that boeing didnt get to essentially rewrite the contract after losing the first attempt.

well yeah, just saying that describing it as a marginally better type 23 is really really innaccurate, in a one on one match up its a significantly worse vessel.

In a one on one battle to the death a methed up carnie with a claw hammer will beat a maxillary facial surgeon.

I'd still rather have the doctor if I need wisdom teeth removed.

>It's made to handle fast movers and makeshift mine-layers.

I think it really comes down to the fact that this ship isn't actually required for those kind of missions, and it looks even worse when you take into account the resources put into it. They could've built decent frigates with what they put into this program, but they didn't, even though just about any frigate will do the same job but better. Especially when you consider that even sub-peer opponents field equipment that can put these craft in serious danger. Even in a one on one engagement with an obsolete diesel electric sub the freedom class is at an incredible disadvantage.

Why are the NSM/Harpoon canisters always set to fire across the deck, and not straight out? Is it about clearing the superstructure turbulence vs missile airspeed or something like that?

Except, the destroyer would be able to
1. Accomplish its mission
2. Not disintegrate the moment the first coastal fortification made in the last two centuries glares at it funny

a destroyer is too large, too expensive, uses too much crew, too much fuel, and has weapons that are not necessary for such a small mission

a smaller craft will accomplish the mission just as well
a smaller craft is not in danger of disintegrating, becuase they arent expecting to be loaded for a determined attack by high tech weapons

In littoral waters a SSK is a pretty bad choice, it's too shallow for them to hide properly and they'd get fucked by a helicopter.

A more generalist frigate would be more useful in a peer engagement, but would also be dead by the time a LCS gets into the AO.

>In littoral waters a SSK is a pretty bad choice, it's too shallow for them to hide properly and they'd get fucked by a helicopter.

Reaching the littorals means moving through areas where SSKs patrol. The Freedom class has only one seahawk, which means it has virtually no ASW capability when that helo is replenishing fuel and weapons or undergoing maintenance, the Independence is marginally better but still has no sonar suite of its own. Also depending on the floor conditions a diesel boat can be very difficult to detect in coastal areas.