SEAL incompetence

OP is an idiot
1. Just because a soldier is killed does not mean the mission was a failure
2. How many “successful “ missions have the seals completed?
3. Stop complaining, join the navy and go show them how it’s done.

What video? I've never heard anything about there being a video. I've also never heard or seen any proof that luttrell didn't fire a single shot.

dont forget that one where they left the air controlelr to die and tried to deny him the moh

but they also sniped those pirates

vimeo.com/316309732

So only the SEALS fuck up, because we don't really hear about anyone else fucking up this bad and this often.

DRUG DEALING SEALS KILL GREEN BERET MANY SUCH CASES

Army SF >>>>> Navy SF

i thought seal is devgru bootcamp, isn't it?

What you should take away from Red Wings is not some kind of derision or vicarious superiority to the SEALs, but rather an implication about how fucking infinitely fallible otherwise capable individuals can be. The commonly paired meme about SEALs' organizational genesis being not rooted in infantry tactics is beyond asinine, as it implies a complete ineptitude on extremely high levels of SOCOM brass. SEALs are, in fact, highly trained in normal infantry TTP's, otherwise there would never be a single SEAL team deployed in any capacity in Afghanistan. The failure of Red Wings rests solely on individual misjudgments, a series of them. It does not reflect any larger institutional failing in any way.

It's war, people. People fuck up. Shit happens, people die.

>you only hear about fuckups
Not with the fucking seals

SEALs ain't bulletproof and militaries somehow struggle with the concept that helicopters aren't, either

this isn't about that, you fucking retard

>Takur Ghar
That one is on the US military leadership in general for buying into the "effects-based operations" bullshit. They were sent in without any ground recon being carried out first, to a place that the enemy would obviously want to control if a battle were to break out, with no direct comms to their intended air support (they had satellite phones and short-range radios, but guess how well the former work in the mountains). In short, wishful thinking replaced strategic and operational planning and preparation.

If you want to know about their actual fuckups, go read The Intercept's coverage on them - there's ineptitude, corruption and wanton mayhem that wikipedia articles don't even touch upon.

Go shovel söy into the void between your withered shoulders, imbecile

Video link?

I dunno, Army SF seems like it's been starting to see a lot of its own high-profile fuckups recently. I haven't been hearing or seeing very good things.

you should stick to posting your BBC threads on /b/ op.

The goatherder that saved him claim that all lutrells mags were full. Seing that he dosent have much reason to lie and lutrell has all the reasons in the world to lie, you make your own conclusion.

So you are saying that "highly" trained seals fucked up on every basic infantry man skill during the operation? Every other special forces from every country involved in afghan were able to infil and exfil quietly without fucking up like that.

Navy dolphins are better than seals.

like what? the one ambush in niger? The only other thing I can think of is when the seals killed that guy recently but that was yet another seal fuckup.

The problem with the SEALs is that a lot of the time they are taken out of the element they are supposed to be in. If you’re looking for people to do maritime operations or storm ships and shit then those are your guys, just look at how well the team that saved that ship from pirates in 2008 handled things. They should not at all be in bumfuck Afghanistan or Africa. They should stick with what they do best, which is demolitions and maritime operations, not trying to larp as fucking Delta Force or Army Rangers and getting people killed for no reason other than incompetence and glory/book deal hounding.

Is it really so hard just to send in a bunch of dime a dozen infantry to do the jobs these special operations do?
The US military used to do it all the time, so why can't they now?
I understand death is a huge publicity issue, but I know for a fact that tons of soldiers and Marines would be gung-ho for this kind of stuff.

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It's not as cool as spec ops

>Nobody questions victory.
You are pretending like there isnt a new book about the seals every 6 months and an A list movie every 2 years.

Most special forces are glorified wealth fare leeches.

Is that really what it all boils down to? What's cooler and what's not?
I'm starting to wonder if certain branches are paid off to not let common infantry do anything, saving all of the assignments for only the spec ops... Book deals.

Do you think all those cool H&K and FN guns are acquired to serve a tactical niche?

That's why you use the 75th Ranger Regiment's recon unit when you need shit like this done correctly. Hell, I'd take a USMC/MARSOC recon unit over SEALs.
I wasn't a high speed cool guy, but we saw, cleaned up, recovered and in many cases enough of NSW's fuck ups in my little slice(s) of Iraq in deployments 2004-2007. They are a bunch of cheese dicks who need to stick to their areas of competency, waterborne operations.

>...in many cases suffered enough...

Are special forces in general just not as good as they used to be?

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They're better and more capable than they've ever been on a whole, including the SEALs. The difference is their mission tempo and use since GWOT kicks off. There are no perfect commandos and there is rarely a perfect operation. The issue with the SEALs and NSW in general is a poisoned well. Shit leadership creating subsequent generations of shittier shooters leading to shitter outfits.

>when they recovered his gear they discovered that he didn't fire a single shot
Wew. Got a source for that?

No, the other formations have done just fine. Think about it - war on terror has been on for ~20 years and how many Delta, Green Beret, Ranger, MARSOC, PJ, [insert SOF unit], fuck ups have you heard of? Not many.

Yet with the seals there is an absolute mountain of completely fucked up operations. Keep in mind we also only heard about the major fuck ups.

Here's a question. How many mags did the herder say he had on him? How many did he leave the wire with? Would you keep a spent mag under his circumstances or would you just drop it on the ground and leave it?

Just playing devil's advocate.

I genuinely believe that the old school spec ops and special forces would wipe the floor with the new school.

they certainly fought more formidable enemies than guys do today

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At their specific mission profiles? Sure. I'd be willing to bet all the old SOF from Vietnam would school current guys on low tech jungle warfare. Current guys would smoke the old school at current mission sets. It's all training and combat experience.

I feel like you guys are fundamentally misunderstanding the primary mission of SF. When you say that they would "school" someone, this is actually completely correct, albeit for the wrong reason. An SF ODA is like a mobile recruiter, drill sergeant, and platoon leader (yes, LEADER, not sergeant) rolled up into one. They raise, train, and then lead indigenous, sometimes primitive people into battle. While naturally this requires impeccable basic infantry skills, the primary mission doesn't necessarily involve actually explicitly using these skills.

>I feel like you guys are fundamentally misunderstanding the primary mission of SF.
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion
>the primary mission doesn't necessarily involve actually explicitly using these skills.
Yet many times it does. Read a book about special forces in Vietnam.

Yes, combat is obviously incidental. SF is probably the most misunderstood branch of the special operations community and I was trying to help broaden Jow Forums's knowledge. The point, and also what makes SF pretty unique in the community, is that combat is a byproduct of their primary mission rather than its explicit focus. I find that pretty cool and want other people to find that cool too. Sorry if I insulted your preexisting knowledge.

>elite coke heads and prostitute connoisseurs

sounds about right.

They buy their own hype and fail to understand that chaos rules a battlefield. One lucky bullet and your mission falls apart because they don't have enough manpower to absorb the loss and still complete.

Fair enough. The only point I wanted to make is that special forces back then probably had much more combat experience against a tougher enemy that most soldiers do today due to the nature of the wars being fought.

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pretty much this, when you believe your own hype and have had people put you in a pedestal for decades, youre willing to believe anything.

Pretty much. That is not to say that special forces/ops don’t have their roles to play, they absolutely do especially in this day and age, but a good chunk of the things they are sent to do could also be done and probably should be done by conventional forces.
Special forces/ops are still pretty good, especially once the GWOT happened, the problem with NSW is the completely cancerous leadership on top of nonstop glory hounding that makes Marines look like humble priests. The only part of SOCOM constantly having massive fuck ups is the SEALs, mostly because they put themselves in situations they should not at all be in, and it only got worse after Neptune Spear.

>Operation Red Wings wouldn't have been a disaster if officers would understand that people and helicopters aren't immune to bullets

>when they recovered his gear they discovered that he didn't fire a single shot
No fucking way, right?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Luttrell
>Muhammad Gulab also disputes Marcus' version of the story. Marcus claims he fired off nearly all of his bullets, but Muhammad said he was found with all 11 magazines of ammunition.

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It's really hard to take Luttrell's claim seriously seeing as how many different individuals are contradicting his story and his version of what happened.

welfare bud

Here:

vimeo.com/316309732

Lutrell said he left with 13, and the Afghan said he had 11 full with him.

vimeo.com/316309732

That’s the video of the event. Nothing even close to the film.

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What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.

Despite of what most Jow Forums thinks the taliban are not just some goat fuckers who just take potshots at american troops, they have a lot of experience and are able to fight back against almost anything americans throw at them, they do fuck goats tho.

>Am I missing any actually impressive successes
Air Force are the silent heroes

Attached: Battle of Do Ab.png (317x732, 219K)

the NVA would wipe the floor with them

has the taliban ever overrun a rifle company?

OP mentions that mate.

As the other guy said, if lutrell was in a big ass ambush, shouldnt he have used more than 2 or 3 mags? or was he double tapping every insurgent he saw with precision shots until he ran away, singlehandedly fending of the 100/75/12 taliban soldiers?

According to himself, the latter.

Seeing the SAS documentary on SAS operations really puts a perspective on operations just 20 years ago and today. They packed a shit load of firepower and were well aware that if they were spotted, the chances of getting killed or captured was really big.

The NVA was literally an army taliban are just a bunch of guerrilas and they sitll have managed to do some crazy shit.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Chapman_attack
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Camp_Shaheen_attack

>The NVA was literally an army taliban are just a bunch of guerrilas
So I was correct in saying that vietnam-era special forces fought a more formidable enemy.

Who cares if they pull off a suicide bombing or kill a bunch of afghans. It's irreverent to the point I'm making.

They are tasked with increasingly diverse and difficult ops. This is partially because of boomer mentality that SEALs are unstoppable. Also because American sentiment is against using large conventional forces to enforce American interests. Special forces have to pick up the slack.
Saying SEALs are incompetent is hilarious. Name me one group who could do it better. Anecdotal video game evidence need not apply

>or was he double tapping every insurgent he saw with precision shots until he ran away, singlehandedly fending of the 100/75/12 taliban soldiers?
nobody does this

>Name me one group who could do it better
Green berets

Probably would still have been, but when every operation involves helicopter shootdowns, you should probably rethink their usage

>Name me one group who could do it better
1st SFOD-D

>Name me one group who could do it better.

Small Scale DA: Raiders/MARSOC, Rangers, Group CIF

Large Scale DA: Rangers, Raiders/MARSOC

FID and UW: Group

SR: ISA, RRC, Airborne LRPS/LRS, mid level Army RSTA,

SAR: Rangers and PJs

That's their four primary missions and they're all done better by others at this point. Even Raiders are out of the shit of TF-Violence and preforming well at this point. The SEALs keep fucking up, having massive OPSEC breaches, and sour operations.

>helicopter shootdowns
how about not fucking land 3km from the target and get spotted in a fucking instant.

Wouldn't need helicopters there if you don't fuck up.

>taliban are just a bunch of guerrilas and they sitll have managed to do some crazy shit.

Are you an afghan native? Nobody thinks this. Sorry.

Yes, that's my point. They use them like they're invulnerable.

i have also noticed that in that video that all the bodies are not close together/shown on film, so it begs the question of just how close where the 3 when they were killed?

in this video, vimeo.com/113090312 starting at 11:43, all 3 of the seals bodies are in very close proximity to each other and you can clearly see some of the wounds they sustained and they look gruesome, in particular dietz and murphy.

there is also some great info from a podcast that I would suggest you listen to if you are interested in getting more information about red wings. ed darack attempted to recover a lot of information from the people that were involved in the recovery operation.
sofrepradio.com/episode-315-writer-ed-darack-truth-behind-extortion-17-operation-red-wings/

skip ahead to 1:01:10. that is where the red wings conversation begins. some very juicy info. such as the idea that they found no 5.56 ammunition casings anywhere, which is kind of hard to believe considering that you definitely can hear an suppressed m4 in the video.

all in all those poor bastards got completely romped and it's a damn shame that they had to die because of shitty planning and hubris.

They had tho I know they are all just a bunch of pedophiles and goat fuckers but cia training really help them a lot.

>be seal
>be steroid drunk asshole
> fall out chopper
> air group has to recover the fuck
> airman say ok let do it, provides cover.
> airman gets knock out, seals says fuck him let get out
>airman wakes up and COD more terrorists.
>get denied medal for saving a drunk, and be left behind by the same fucks you saved.
>they get a medal of honor.

FUCK THE SEALS, a corpsman is better than any seal.

that the green berets nigger. you got army and MC for recon. Then you got the Seals, why is the like the only branch that is not combat troops, SF considered the best? I don't expcet the air force to be as good, as army or MC, but I expect them to be the best paratroopers. But the navy? They got the marines.

green berets = us army special forces

You're on Jow Forums. Give it a minute.

don't forget the bin laden raid where they managed to crash a helicopter despite facing no resistance whatsoever

seals weren't piloting the heli

>muh 200 Taliban

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Helicopters are best used for loud, fast raids under cover of darkness
Unfortunately, the military has decided that they are flying nuke bunkers

Sea, Land and Air.......but just the sea plz

>North Vietnamese army
DUHHH no shit you fucking stupid fucktard
Maybe compare them to a similar insurgency force like I dunno.... The fucking Kong
Utter moron

SOF teams are basically just special because of the amount of training they receive. Saw a deck seamen drop a rolling pallet full of birthing line down the hangar bay ramp to the lower v's and it almost took out an entire group of seals and some other foreign sof guys because they were all to busy literally arguing about who had the better luxury car.

> me and some of my buddies online found Shia lebuttfucks flag one time so I am totally qualified to criticize a behind enemy lines hostage extraction with real bullets flying.

I haven’t watched this yet but I have had the tab open for a few weeks. Hope this is it.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee20ZBedevk

You are fucking retarded.

We rarely see bodies before they've been looted and tampered with, and they often put rounds in the corpses

>This
The talibans fight 24/7 they have a lot of experience in combat with a superior enemy , and friendly reminder the 90% of Jow Forums are just civilians with guns and not operators and have 0 experience in any class of combat

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The only retard here is you. The point I made was that vietnam era special forces fought a tougher enemy than special forces do today. By your own admission the NVA is the superior enemy. That being said the viet cong were probably much better than the taliban too. Utter moron.