Redpill me on the SAW

It's not a PKM

Attached: PKM Aesthetic.jpg (794x597, 117K)

If I had a nickel for every time I heard every soldier claim that it can't feed mags reliably. I've ran senpai fire ranges where we had to dump thousands of rounds of ammo so we didn't have to deal with having an ammo detail. The 5 saws we had set up had a grand total of 0 stoppages from magazines. I have heard and used to think the same thing. Experience, however, says otherwise. Also, while the reliability isn't as beefy as the 240, it's still not as bad as people claim. Keeping them cleaned and well maintained goes a long way towards having them running smooth.

Fair enough. I mostly was just baiting.

Hard to clean, jams a lot, heavy af

You forgot
>Belgian

I love waffles

Thanks for making Jow Forums a better place

Just doing my part *sips*

I spent four years in the army.

My favorite memory is how we’d make the new guys disassemble then saws and we’d all laugh when the spring would pop back and hit them in the face.

This should inform you how depressing my time in the army was.

Don't worry I understand. I hope you at least got that government money for it.

Not really. 0% from the VA. I never wanted to let my boys down so I never went to sick call or got a profile, despite the pain.

First time I popped an M249, the spring never popped back desu. Same with the M240.

moves back and forth and cuts things
some can be had from FN
others from home depot

Because you didn’t cock it like a fucking tard before opening the back up. Some kid in my infantry OSUT shattered a tooth because he did a function check on a 240, didn’t ride the bolt forward after, and tried to disassemble it.

It's trash and pic related is far superior .

Attached: best_GPMG.gif (320x240, 2.7M)

What gun?

Was okay if you didnt get a beat to shit one. I'll take a 240beast mode over it any day.

I've heard when they're new and aren't worn out that they're great. None of the ones I've seen, at least when doing shit with muh Marines, were new, and they were pretty shit guns.

The M27 is definitely a much better autorifleman weapon. Not too sure how much I like the choice of everyone having one in a rifle squad though

Wtf is that?

Favorite thing about the 240B/L
The gas regulator has three settings.
Clean, dirty, and "my AG is dead and can't clean the regulator on the spare barrel please help"

In a clean gun, thos settings are:

650 RPM- "Not great, not terrible"
750 RPM- "Adverse Conditions"
950 RPM- "COWABUNGA IT IS"

That last one makes the gun beat itself to death, but whatever.

Looks like an MG4

stay mad kid

There are fucking links trapped in my magazine port. That's the redpill.

mg4 ?

t.neverserved

This

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Originally released in the 1970’s as the FN Minimi, the US uses the M249 though IIRC that is being swapped out for the M27 IAR. You can purchase your own semi auto version for about $5,000, which would still be a better and less expensive investment than buying it in Counter Strike. Not *as* big or heavy as an M60 so people tend to like carrying it for long distances more, and 5.56 being lighter than 7.62 real fuckin’ NATO means overall lighter shit to deal with while still able to sling bullets downrange willy nilly. Generally speaking the reliabilty is alright, but you need to make sure it gets cleaned and maintained, especially in places like Afghanistan and the Middle East. Overall not too bad of an LMG.
I would rather have FN make a bunch of stuff available to civilians than constantly getting cock blocked by HK.

GUNSTORM

Sadly, they've begun to phase those out in favor of the "make machine gun math easy" single gas setting of 750 rpm.

>the US uses the M249 though IIRC that is being swapped out for the M27 IAR
Are you being retarded on purpose

I think the M27 concept would really only work if everyone in the squad had it. The 249's biggest advantage is that it can feed from a belt. The downside of it is that now you need an assistant to handle spare barrels, help load the gun, and carry ammunition. With the M27 you don't need an assistant but you're restricted to box magazines, so might as well just give everyone the IAR to maximize on its strengths while addressing its weakness of magazine capacity.

THE M27 WAS A PLOY TO GET NEW RIFLES.
NOTHING MORE.
THE AUTOMATIC RIFLEMAN SPIEL WAS A LIE.
NO M249S HAVE BEEN REPLACED.

Mk46/48 have been around for years, m249 is still decent though provided it has newer parts.

Is this not a waste of taxpayers money?

I'LL SHOW YOU WHO'S BOSS OF THIS GYM

The 249 originally had a gas regulator for adverse conditions as well (pic related).
But your average grunt kept the gun on the highest (1000 RPM) setting all the time such that the guns beat themselves to shit.
With the PIP upgrade, rather than instructing operators properly the military decided "you can't have nice things" and a non-adjustable gas regulator (the one with the round knob) came as part of the new barrel assembly.
Nowadays 249s have some self-regulating system that you can't even disassemble

I'm pretty sure that most other countries that operate Minimi have kept the adjustable gas regulator.

Attached: gasreg.jpg (1200x795, 64K)

>Intermediate cartridge = Full size cartridge

^This the only victor units I've seen that don't use SAWs anymore are the ones that go on MEUs to places like Japan and Australia.

That is what happens when 2 decades of war force you to keep dropping standards. They are giving it to people who are incapable of understanding simple machines so have to lock them out of everything possible.

Your average grunt is better educated and trained than any other time in the military history of the United States. The gas regulator didn't work as intended and using appropriate lubricant like ALW will do the same thing while reducing complexity of the weapon.

People are just idiot gate keeping neverservdes on this board.

>Your average grunt is better educated and trained than any other time in the military history of the United States
Really?
I am legitimatly surprised given that standards have been dropped:
usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/10/army-accepting-more-low-quality-recruits-giving-waivers-marijuana-hit-targets/750844001/
theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-recruitment-problem-the-military-doesnt-want-to-talk-about/

I have never served but I'm amazed that 2 decades of active duty hasn't ripped the army a new one and it's only the new guys that have no idea how far it's fallen.

Yes, it is, but it's what they had to do when Congress kept cockblocking them on getting new M4s and M16s. So they made up some crap about "automatic rifles," had a shitshow of a competition, dropped all the "automatic rifle" requirements and got a ton of rebranded 416s out of it.

Worst thing is they still dont always put it on either/or so it still smashes up the regulator.

>I have never served but I'm amazed that 2 decades of active duty hasn't ripped the army a new one and it's only the new guys that have no idea how far it's fallen.

If anything the wars created a surplus of white, well-educated, urban and suburban kids joining combat arms and SOF to see what it was all about. The only time standards really "dropped" was during the Surge and they were still higher than they ever had been before. Neverserveds like you talk shit because you look at WWII war porn and seem to think that it was at all realistic when it wasn't. Most of the WWII forces were drafted (or defacto/rush joins) that had an average of a 6th grade education and 8 weeks of standard training.

Rose tinted glasses suck.

Dont forget McNamaras Morons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_100,000

I'm not comparing today to 80 fuckin years ago, I'm comparing it to 20 years ago.

>The project was ended in December 1971

Okay

20 years ago was 1999. The Army was composed of people who couldn't find a job in an outstanding economy and who spent more time polishing floors than they did training, all led by SNCOs and Officers that had never once done their job live or fired a shot in anger, just like the two generations of soldiers that followed before them.

Rose. Tinted. Glasses.

>They also included a special category made up of a control group of "normal" soldiers
Jesus, can you imagine being sent to nam as the "control group" in a platoon of retards. A fate worse than death.

>In a series of decisions the Pentagon lowered the required score to as low as 10 on his Armed Forces Qualification Test (perfect score: 100) and still be inducted—a 6% drop[3] (as of 2019, 10 remains the minimum score required for induction).

>people who couldn't find a job
Is that really who makes up the US military? Here in Australia the vast majority in the military actually want to be there rather than being civi-street dropouts.

I think he meant that, specifically, the Marine Corps at one point had the SAW phased out of the automatic rifleman billet in a traditional 0311 fireteam in favor of the more lightweight IAR. It was then repurposed as a 0331/Weapons Company weapon, as it's an LMG. However, non infantry units that still served a combat role (confirmed this with the arty guys I was on ship with) still used SAWs among 240s and heavier crew serves like the Mk 19 and the Deuce. Then the Marine Corps, in typical autistic fashion, used their already (relatively) small budget into replacing the fucking ~$600/unit M4 with the IAR for 03s. It has been largely horrendous in terms of results both efficiency and reliability. The Marine Corps is often completely fucking retarded, and I'm glad I'm out.

The SAW is old news. The USMC is replacing it with the superior M27 for enhanced mobility.

>Is that really who makes up the US military? Here in Australia the vast majority in the military actually want to be there rather than being civi-street dropouts.

Cold War Era, yeah largely. College wasn't wide spread as an option yet and people that joined were basically too poor or dumb to do anything else. These days basically everyone has the option to go to college at one level or another so the only people that join are the ones that are that want to. Yeah there's still trash, but it's at much lower levels than it was 40-20 years ago.

The guy I'm responding to is just looking back with nostalga and no real understanding of what US Forces looked like during that era.

>They also included a special category made up of a control group of "normal" soldiers
Jesus, can you imagine being sent to nam as the "control group" in a platoon of retards. A fate worse than death.

youtube.com/watch?v=_J2VwFDV4-g

Youre a fucking idiot.

it shoots many 5.56 in the direction of bad guys. can jam, can literally deadline itself inside 100rds from a state of 100% clean and functional while at the range qualling on it.

the ability to use stanags is a gimmick, absolute last case scenario "we're all going to die if the team doesnt toss their mags at the SAW guy to continue his supression" levels of desperation.

"joke":
>yooo how many "SAWWW dudes" does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
none brah, it's already LIT

>That is what happens when 2 decades of war force you to keep dropping standards
The change to a non-adjustable regulator was in like 1993/1994

Thanks user, it is amazing that the project was continued beyond the vast majority failing basic marksmanship.
In a fair world McNamara would have had 70 IQ doctors looking after him in his old age.

Interesting, was it a result of the Gulf War?

How is that a bad thing? I want one.

>Stanag mags don't work in the SAW
m.youtube.com/watch?v=llVEKL5ePcc

>they arent pumping out cheap $800-1000 original pattern FALs on their no doubt expansive manufacturing tools made specifically for FAL creation
yeah, heheh, civilian market, totally
these are the guys who wholesale weapon platforms for indefininite periods of time to major NATO powers, not smith and wesson or remmington. FNH is a big boy arms industry player, not a gun company

ok, thats a cool video that i didnt click on, but myself and every other person in the army who has ever needed to load a STANAG into one of these pieces of shit will promptly tell you to fuck off and get that shit away from their SAW

way too heavy for a 5.56 lmg

>The downside of it is that now you need an assistant to handle spare barrels, help load the gun
uh, what???

I hate to give them too much credit but the Negev is exactly what a 5.56 LMG should be.
The Ameli is what it ought to LOOK like though.

you are confusing the m249 with an m240. you build an entire squad per platoon around the 240s. you need a gunner and an assistant gunner, along with a bipod and ~1000rds of belted 7.62. a 2 man job.

SAW gunners are literally just some poor dickhead joe who pulled the short straw and has to carry a SAW around isntead of an m4, with it's spare barrel in your bag, and a bunch of ammo. it's not fucking 1k rounds of 7.62, it's not a 240, and it's not a crew-served weapon. literal subhuman 4'10" pinoy animals enlisting for citizenship in the army do this daily.

I love and hate the saw. It sucks to carry around. Fuck trying to move anywhere with it. Get stuck in a spot it's great to shoot.
240's are great till you see another vehicle, then you're going to want a ma duce. A saw can probably light up most of those things spectacularly. Except their dead vehicles are going to be points for cover and they're going to over whelm people throwing bodies at it using the disabled vehicles as cover.

>Interesting, was it a result of the Gulf War?
I think the proposals for the PIP program were there before that, but didn't start to get fielded until after the Gulf War.
1991 manuals depict the PIP configuration with the buffered fibreglass stock, heatshield over the barrel, and updated barrel assembly (the folding carry handle is the easiest thing to spot on later barrels).
You can find images of deployed guns with the PIP fibreglass stock and heatshield from late 1991 onwards, but they always seem to have the original barrel assembly (inc. gas regulator) until around 1993/1994. And you still see some barrels of the original type, even later on.
Though it's probably the case that they were simply shooting out stores of old barrels before switching to the new ones. The post-1994 images tend to be at places like Camp Lejeune

t.pog or neverserved

It's a okay concept. I would prefer to lug around the saw and all the shit associated with it while complaining the entire time unless I had someone with a MK19 or something to back me up.

>0% from the VA
Shocking, truly shocking

wtf is up with the USMC, weapons COMPANY?! I thought we figured out way back in WW2 that having a pure rifle squad with no MGs was a bad idea.

Kind of off topic, but I hate how smug gun youtubers will say BS like "Automatic fire is unnecessary and a waste of ammo when it's the #1 most important thing on the battlefield. Really nobody seems to understand small unit tactics on youtube, even so-called intellectuals like karl and ian.

You’re showing how retarded you are here.

Every rifle company has a weapons platoon. That’s where the company’s GPMGs are. They’re organic at the company level on paper and effectively organic at the platoon level because guns section is usually very spread across the rifle platoons.

Weapons COMPANY is where they keep the .50s, heavy mortars, TOW, and now Javelins.

>PKM weighs only 16.5 pounds with bipod
>only an extra two to three pounds with 100-150 round box added
>Being this much of a skinny manlet that this is an issue for you to carry
>mfw even when loaded, the PKM is still lighter than a SAW

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>all led by SNCOs and Officers that had never once done their job live or fired a shot in anger

>Panama
>Desert Storm
>Somalia