The bradley and IFV in general

Just watched that movie about the bradley.
Was the bradley and the IFV concept in general a complete waste of resources. Would armies have been better off just with Tanks and and APC familes variants

"A troop transport that can't carry troops, a reconnaissance vehicle that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance...
And a quasi-tank that has less armor than a snow-blower, but carries enough ammo to take out half of D.C. THIS is what we're building?" .

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Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier#Operators
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Fighting_Vehicle#Operators
vimeo.com/74015908
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

the pentagon wars was the movie

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The movie is hollywood and nothing more.

>A troop transport that can't carry troops
Can if necessary, like a Merkava. Not ideal, but kind of moot because nobody travels alone.
>a reconnaissance vehicle that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance
Armored recon is a thing, and its the only recon worth a shit these days.
>And a quasi-tank that has less armor than a snow-blower, but carries enough ammo to take out half of D.C.
Better protected than its peers (not now, but in the 80s) and able to punch significantly above its weight with the TOW.

Not a perfect vehicle as any crewman will tell you, but perfect for blowing the fuck out of enitire columns of armor of second rate militarys.

>Just watched that movie about the bradley.

You were aware of the movie beforehand which means you knew it was comedy and not a documentary on the Bradleys development.

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for anyone who doesn't know, riding in a brad is fucking MISERY. there's no AC, no air guard hatches to get ANY airflow at all. when you're cruising around in ambient temperatures in the triple digits, it can get literally dangerous to be inside of a bradley, yet nobody can do anything about it because the mission needs to happen. i've seen heatstroke just from riding in the troop compartment. things fucking suck to ride in but that 25mm bushmaster makes it fucking amazing when you need to dismount.

>no air guard hatches to get ANY airflow at all

LARP outs himself

Stop watching the hollyjew user.

The total cost of the program is $5,664,100,000, and the average unit costs $3,166,000.

ehhh top KEK

Assuming you're talking about the Pentagon Wars, everything in the movie is wrong, pretty much. The Aluminum fumes thing, the different specifications for the IDF thing, even the story of how the Bradley was developed is at best completely inaccurate, at worst a flat-out lie.

>Would armies have been better off just with Tanks and and APC familes variants
IFV was literally made to address shortcomings in having APCs accompany tanks

the APC was often used as a light tank, something they were no good for due to weak weapon
disembarked infantry were defenceless, since the APC was often forced to turn back because the situation is too hot for them

IFV had more firepower, so could follow infantry into battle alongside tanks, ensuring infantry were protected, so infantry could protect tanks
infantry could then board their IFV again and follow the tanks forward

the lack of carrying capacity is a compromise they always recognized as a necessary trade off to protect the crew
in any case, the solution is to carry additional IFVs, and therefore more firepower

Why not just MBT , light tanks and a family of APC variants like the he Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) —or CVR(T)—is a family of armoured fighting vehicles (AFV)s in service with the British Army and others throughout the world. They are small, highly mobile, air-transportable armoured vehicles designed to replace the Alvis Saladin armoured car.[2]

Designed by Alvis in the 1960s, the CVR(T) family includes Scorpion and Scimitar light reconnaissance tanks, Spartan armoured personnel carriers (APC)s, Sultan command and control vehicle, Samaritan armoured ambulance, Striker anti–tank guided missile vehicle and Samson armoured recovery vehicle. All members of the CVR(T) family were designed to share common automotive components and suspension; aluminium armour was selected to keep the weight down. By 1996, more than 3,500 had been built for British Army use and export

Because we've come to recognize that having a vehicle that can drop off troops, and also stick around to support them in combat, is a good and desirable thing to have in inventory.

Bradley crewman here. I fucking hate my Brad but I'd rather ride this shit into battle than an M1.

Bradley Cooper here, I fucking hate Lady gaga but I'd rather ride that bitch into battle than a supermodel.

Salty tanker spotted

>pentagon wars
It's a meme
completely inaccurate
IFVs and specifically the bradley in general are a good concept and have seen great success on the battlefield
It allows infantry to keep up with tanks while being protected, and to have auto cannon fire support and ATGMs available for use against other vehicles tanks while the infantry fights dismounted
See gulf war 1 where Bradley's used their TOW missiles and 25mm chain guns with DU ammo to great effect
Tanks and IFVs are the backbone of any mechanized division which is the meta of warfare

It's a pretty decent armored transport and maneuvers pretty well. Also fairly decent firepower, 25mm is pretty effective

I'm confident that the development of any hardware is a multi-decade shitshow of divergent interests and whims from the higher ups. That doesn't mean that the Bradley is bad IFV.

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Pentagon Wars is not a fucking documentary.
I bet you think Forest Gump was a real person.

Just because the end result is great, it doesn't meant that the development isn't a mess with scope creep and cost overruns.

This applies to every industry.

Because you are conflating 2 things
a tin box to drop troops off and withdraw with a vehicle that is meant to drop troops off on the edge of combat

Vs
A vehicle for dropping off troops in close, dismount behind cover in range and fighting an enemy that is set up for anti-infantry work keeping all eyes on it while the infantry can move unmolested

It is true that it was meant to replace the M113 but ended up not holding a section but the rest is fiction, the sad part is because they never replaced the M113 plenty of good men died in aluminium boxes until MRAPs were finally developed.

IMO the way to go is a common chasis with mission specific bodies allowing APCs, IFVs and support vehicles to share drive trains and power packs. Then though various bodies you can have a 3 man IFV with a fuckload of armour and ammo, an APC that carries a full section and gear and a recovery vehicle that can donate parts to the others.

How long till they move away from line of sight Tows. Or Tows that get fucked up if the wire snaps.

The Javelin now has a 4000 meter range, why not have a launcher that can shoot and move

Any ATGM is going to be LOS otherwise how are you going to aim it in hte first place? As for putting Javelins on everything a sniper can now do $180,000 damage with a single round by shooting the missile.

>IMO the way to go is a common chasis with mission specific bodies allowing APCs, IFVs and support vehicles

so you want the stryker

>how are you going to aim it in hte first place?

A Jav is a fire and forget missile. The tow isn't.

There is already a RF Version of the TOW 2B
Here's the thing though - radio jammers can't block a wire

Here's the thing though - a tree branch can't snag radio

You can avoid Tree branches by picking your engagement
You can't choose if the enemy has ECM

>freezer in the cold
>oven in the heat (you can literally cook meals on the armor)
>driver braking makes you face-plant in the turret
>braking while out the hatch can break ribs
>almost impossible to sleep in comfortably
>horrible troop compartment compared to Strykers
>need to oriente turret to reload 25mm and TOW
>"fish-bulb" night vision in ODS, can't see more than five meters ahead at night

The only good things about Bradleys in my opinion is they take IED/VBIEDs a lot better than trucks, and the 25mm is fucking awesome to use.

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>stryker
I was thinking more like the Boxer but with tracks.

Yeah and TOWs being subsonic does increase exposure time but I still don't think putting a million dollars of ATGMs on an IFV is a good idea, if you are expecting to fight tanks send planes and MBTs.

Tyrone and Jamal in Somalia may know how to drive a BTR80, but they do not know how to operate a jamming console

i've got 2-3 large 3inch thick binders of OFFICIAL BAE M2A3 training material still sitting in my trunk from a course i got from BAE guys in 2014-15ish. not just army brand TMs but much more in depth BAE material.

can scan some stuff and make a thread at a later date if this is something people are genuinely interested in. bear in mind the vehicle is braindead easy to learn to drive, and the easiest vehicles in the US military to break into, and learn to drive inside 10 minutes as a civilian with no experience, for reasons you may assume yourself.

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ECM is less common than water, power lines, parked cars, walls and trees, and if you think it's realistically going to interfere with directional burst transmitters with an absurdly low bit rate, you're an armchair general with 0 military and/or electronic engineering experience.

Gunner or driver? I just took gunner and I don’t know shit about the Brad, came from a stryker unit and I miss them

>you're an armchair general

i mean, this is Jow Forums you know

I would be very interested, as for being easy to drive that is something you want on all equipment as it lets to concentrate on the situation more than driving.

just noting that it's infinitely simpler to go from "Stored in the motorpool with a tarp over it" to "driving out of the motorpool" than something like a stryker, only slightly more complicated than driving out of the lot with a HMMWV or LMTV just in terms of number of buttons and switches that need to be pulled to drive out the lot with it.

Timothy McVeigh was a bradalenga as well and look how that worked out.

Bradsters really love to burn kids alive.

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why are these things not drones?

Costs too much guap

All this talk and no mention of this beauty yet.

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>Was the bradley and the IFV concept in general a complete waste of resources. Would armies have been better off just with Tanks and and APC familes variants
What was originally designed and even asked for, was a slightly heavier and bulkier generalist platform that could then have specialized models for certain tasks

a straight up replacement for the Gavinator, slayer of Commies

instead, the retards in the Pentagon fucked around until all they were acquiring was a specialized anti-armor vehicle with zero room for any other variants, because the base vehicle was already specialized

the stupid fucks

and on top of that, Aluminimumnimum armor, which is dogshit and pointless, since the damned thing can not in good faith be called amphibious and struggles with air deployment, and its not just RPGs and big boi explosives, its 20-30mm HEAT rounds that might only cause limited casualties otherwise

and to top it all off, its overbudget, and the Kikes are already ordering there won speicalized version that isnt a deathtrap

The Bradley to start with is basically a new age Tank Destroyer with Light Anti Armor capability with its cannon, and enough men to use infantry ATGMs, then there is the B3, which is EVEN MORE in that direction

Then the Pentagon Wars happens, the real events, then the book, then the movie

And what gets lost in all of this is that the idea, and the REASON baldman is pissy, isn't because he hates a specialized Armored Division version, its because that should have been built later, from standard hulls, and the standard would have focused on moving people and being everywhere and doing many, many different things

And having room for modification without upending the factory floor that produces the BASE model

So imagine Dodge only produces 3500 RAM MEGAPOWERCAB Duelly 4x4(6x6), and attempts to sell that to everyone

That the problem, and it gets glossed over.

ok sparky, or it it blacktail now?

The Bradley is an American BMP designed for the Fulda Gap era. It did it's job, and well.

It was supposed to replace the M113 in every single fucking role.

It couldn't, because the stupid fucks couldn't keep it in their pants long enough for the basic bitch version to roll out and then LATER acquire different, more specialized versions, or modify hulls already built


From Wiki

"but large numbers are still used in support roles such as armored ambulance, mortar carrier, engineer vehicle, and command vehicle. The U.S. Army's heavy brigade combat teams are equipped with approximately 6,000 M113s and 4,000 Bradleys."

Yeah, see that part? All those Support Vehicles that aren't Bradleys and used old and busted 113's?

yo nigga it's a rolling bushmaster, what else do you want?

The Virgin M113 fears the Chad Brad.

>I watched one movie but I’ve never even seen a real Bradley but now I’m an expert.

if they just wanted an armored platform for the bushmaster, they could make something a lot smaller and more armored, if they didn't have to worry about troop capacity

>ok sparky, or it it blacktail now
Neither, and this isnt about the Canadian Turd that was inferior to all of its peers of its age, before, and its peers in weight class
>The Bradley is an American BMP designed for the Fulda Gap era
A highly specialized design for a single role for a single battlefield

Nothing WRONG with that, but the basic Bradley hull was supposed to replace the M113 everywhere, because the M113 might as well be considered unarmored

There is nothing wrong with the Bushmaster, but there is no reason the Bushmaster and TOW carrier should have ever been the standard version beyond the ones directly escorting Abrams into the thickest fighting

There should have been a version, the original, that proliferated to everyone and did every role the M113 "Gavinlord", and every role the M113 was ever nigger rigged into

Oh fucking well

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier#Operators

compare to

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Fighting_Vehicle#Operators

Nobody else wanted the thing, and half the market for it just said fuck it and resolved to design there own, better alternatives

>25mm gun
>can't fit a full squad. garbage ergonomics as is
So what's going to replace it?

We possibly might not ever acquire another tracked IFV

why no ac? wtf??

Cause fuck the dismounts and crew

>Pot metal armor
>Fuel laden doors
>Weak floor that allow's gentle IED's to kill the gopnik crews

Thank god for the BMP as it let thousands of Russians die like the little shits they are.

That's idiot logic seeing how countries like Japan, South Korea and Israel bought those M113s when they had no industry to build those types of vehicles but by the 1980s they could just build things locally.

Have you spoken to anyone forced to deploy in a Bradley deathtrap?

Based

The only ones to stay inside in a fight are the gunner and driver.

It also has top hatches for easier quick dismount.

The rear doors are a reserve and it is supposed to use diesel.

Radio jammers aren't going to do much to an RF beam rider missiles.

>It was supposed to replace the M113 in every single fucking role.

Stopped reading here.

>Bradley replacement

You mean the OMFV? Either the Griffin 3 or KF41.

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whats all that stuff on the armour is that some new tech , been out of loop for a while

Hexagonal camouflage called Tacticam from Armorworks designed to reduce vehicle signature in radar, infrared and visual spectrum (the shadows from the bumps helps).

Because AC was considered a luxury in the 60s,70s, and 80s

and uh, MUH BIG GUNS, MUH BIG ROKKITS
>That's idiot logic seeing how countries like Japan, South Korea and Israel bought those M113s when they had no industry to build
Backs when M113 were top tier standard and reasonably capable for the era, yes they did

And the Bradley was meant to replace it

It didnt

>And the Bradley was meant to replace it
And it did, maneuver units switched over to the M2 decades ago.

I do wonder how the Bradley compares to SnowBradley. The idea of a 40mm bofors armed IFV arouses me

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all the dismounts ride on the roof, it's safer and more comfortable

I'm looking for a video clip from an animated documentary where a Stryker crew member talks about shooting at insurgents in close quarters. He has to grab ammo from outside the vehicle at one point and says whoever thought storing ammo outside was a good idea deserves to get shot. Finally, he goes back to base and is told by a higher ranking member that he should just keep his thoughts and emotions locked away in a metaphorical box until he is out. I've been looking for the full movie for years since it was posted on Jow Forums.

vimeo.com/74015908

kek

Dazzlers can though, and Shtora is designed pretty specifically to deal with that threat.

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naw, army is broke and overhauling everything.

top boomer post

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Shtora dazzlers are ineffective against modern TOW variants.

Yeah, that's the whole point; beam-riding ATGMs aren't any less susceptible to jamming.

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LAV and stryker are way cooler tho

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>narrowly escaped having to do NTC in the Bradley and get to dismount in a Stryker
>either get to stay some what comfy either getting a heater, AC, or sticking my headout the rear hatches

The Stryker can never really replace the BFV, but I do fucking appreciate how much more comfortable it is. Gonna need all the fucking little creature comforts the Stryker has to offer this upcoming NTC.

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Those things are so fucking old, they might as well be scrap. Completely gutless too, you'll get stuck on anything that isn't paved road or well used trail.

It's actually a good mid-weight general purpose machine. The M1 Abrams is VERY expensive and is super focused on head to head combat so it suffers on everything else. The Bradley is useful when you don't know what you'll encounter or need to cover weaknesses.