Given that you can load some revolving arms (that do not use self contained cartridges) without the projectile, propellant or grease ever comming in contanct with the muzzle end of the barrel until the firearm is discharged, would it be fair to say that they are not muzzle loaders?
If so, then what would be a good replacement for the term "arms that are loaded via both the front and back end of the chamber" or "arms that are loaded via the front and primed via the back end of the chamber? Since that is what they technically are.
who gives a shit? sounds like you are trying to get around some countries definition of muzzleloader. nothing you say will change their definition.
Nicholas Hughes
It’s not a breach loader
Luke Walker
yeah
Matthew Morris
I am trying to create Taxonomy tree but for firearms, this is mostly of academic interest and my own curiousity, would like to know what the branch should be called. Might just get rid of the idea of having a seperate branch for those types of revolving arms.
Easton Johnson
a revolver under the ATF is its own firearm category, BP or otherwise. the only difference is that as a BP you can technically own it as a felon.
Jackson Carter
it's definitely not a muzzle loader then, the loading process isn't complete until you lever-swage the ball in AND cap it.
Christian Howard
it is normally placed in its own category of revolver. because of the trickiness of the firearm and its existence of pre-ATF definitions and gun regulation, no one really gave a shit, therefore a revolver is neither a breach loading weapon nor a muzzle loading, it is a revolver.
as a technical and manufacture point of view the BP revolver is a type of sliding block breech weapon, that is a weapon whose breach moves separate from the barrel. revovlers came from two schools of though, the pepper box/duck foot type, that use several barrels, and the sliding block breach that use a sliding or rotating block that is aligned with the barrel. the first kind was the "multibarreled" type having origins in the development of firearms, where in several muskets were strapped to a rig and fired in a single-volley. this developed into the volley-gun, pepper-box, and duck-foot some of which are often invented, forgotten, then reinvented. the revolver was made and used shortly after the development of the fire arm with examples from Germany using a matchlock and revolving block for a rifle.
the traditional revolver as we know it didn't form for about 200 years after the invention of the firearm with the wide spread use of cap locks. the old flint locks generated some problems with sliding blocks making the whole arraignment unstable and prone to misfire due to misalignment. the most prevalent revolver we thank of, being the model used in the civil war, was invented and spread Samuel colt in 1851 as the ranger. it was not the first but it was a viable model that featured easy to interchange and service parts, here is a video with a demonstration as to why: youtube.com/watch?v=bouVqY6jrbI, the revolver was popular in the same way the AR15 became more popular than the M14 and mini 14.
Christopher Lopez
Thank you for the reply it was usefull and I apreciate it.
Isaiah Wilson
Edit, I also should have mentioned that my taxonomy is not about ATF regulation, federal or state law. The history is still interesting.
Jonathan Lewis
the single action army revolver simply adapted the reliable revolver design to be able to shoot center-fire cartridges. these early guns preference rimmed cartridges as they were easier to extract and capture via the multiple mechanisms.
the revolver line is generally accepted to have reached peak design with the Welby and Smith and Wesson model 10. the former being a break action reload and the latter being a side gate reload, with all future designs just being scaled or slightly modified forms of the prior with no major innovation.
Taxonomy is often defined by the authorities that use them. therefore the ATF is a legitimate source of professional definitions both is creating them and lending credence to the origins.
Austin Howard
as a side note there were other styles of revolvers that existed at the time than what you think of as a revolver with revolvers that spin on an axis 90 degrees of the axis of the barrel as appose to the more preference type you think of, this may either be vertical or horizontal. they lost favor due to the complex design and danger to the shooter with a chain accidental discharge. I think the common term for this type of revolver is a turret revolver or turret gun.
Given that the ATF does not differentiate between a short recoil locked breach vs long recoil short breach if it, roller locked vs roller delayed vs gas operated rotating bolt etc. Point being, I want to get nomenclature based on mechanical differences not on court rulings, state or federal law.
The ATF does not care what delaying or locking mechanism a firearm is using. Or if a repeating arm is lever, pump, or bolt action. And thus their terminology is of little use to me. Unless of course they have definitions, such as bolt carrier group, bolt, breach block, direct impingement etc. But I rather not involve legal definition into my project.
Hope that clarifies it.
Christian Roberts
there was a lot of patent fuckery on bored through cylinders that influenced design.
Christian Brooks
explain I'm not certain I know what you are talking about
still talking nonsense. I don't understand the significance. it was a paper cartage, a short lived invention that was replaced by the more effective brass cartage.
