Just how real is this shit Jow Forums...

theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/

Just how real is this shit Jow Forums? Is this just a liberal reporter trying to muckrake the military or is it a legit investigation into how fucked up people get after a decade+ of war? Do you have to be a sociopath to make it into a tier 1 unit and that's why this shit happens or what?

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Other urls found in this thread:

reflexivefire.com/2017/01/11/seal-team-six-when-war-crimes-become-standard-operating-procedure/
thenewsrep.com/72126/military-leadership-to-blame-for-seal-team-six-war-crimes/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>Do you have to be a sociopath to make it into a tier 1 unit

you have to be a sociopath to make it to pretty much anything these days, so yeah I totally buy it

but still, do you really think they were out there beheading people?

reflexivefire.com/2017/01/11/seal-team-six-when-war-crimes-become-standard-operating-procedure/
>In 2014 I wrote a novel called Direct Action about rogue SEAL Team Six operators. The plot of the novel was a work of fiction, but within it I laid out a number of themes, anecdotes, and bits of information which were truthful. Most of my novels are written to be fun reads for a audience that appreciates military fiction, and hopefully educates a little bit along the way. Direct Action was different in that I wrote that particular book in order to speak to the choir.

>It had been my hope that people within the Special Operations command structure would take notice, and realize that some things were leaking out even if it was disguised inside a work of fiction. With luck, maybe someone would have taken action and begun to clean things up before the situation got even further out of hand. In retrospect, I was naive. These commands had already taken numerous steps to systematically cover up war crimes committed by SEAL Team Six.

>I suppose it was inevitable. The truth behind the matter has begun to emerge. Over the last two years the New York Times published a few pieces eluding to a dark under current within the unit. Yesterday, The Intercept published a story titled “The Crimes of SEAL Team Six” which gives a clear picture of how Dev Group operators carried hatchets onto objectives, disfigured the dead, recorded “bleed out” films, engaged in the practice of splitting skulls open, and much more.

>I wish these things were merely a work of creative fiction, but no such luck. What more motivation the Department of Defense needs to begin reforming this unit I cannot begin to fathom. There are still darker secrets that have yet to be revealed in the media and it would be far better to take action now rather than drag this scandal out over the next decade as major media outlets publish story after story.
Jack Murphy is an actual SF vet

kinda just seems like he's pushing his book there desu

I don't doubt that it's true, but it isn't because they're sociopaths, it's because they have very limited oversight and basically get to do what they want to a large degree. You would see the same shit with regular forces if you wrote them a blank cheque for behavioral issues.

SOF is mostly a self-justifying machine at this point. It's a solution without a problem, so it creates problems, like going into villages to root out a HVT and just blasting every fighting aged male indiscriminately, so now that village and every other one nearby hates coalition forces, so now they ramp things up and attack FOBs and patrols, justifying yet more night raids on villages, etc. Or just arguing for more funding and trying to create missions to be completed. It's not all like this, but it's a recurring theme at this point.

It doesn't help that they regularly get their shit pushed in by goatherders in ways that infantry would not and often on missions that infantry could accomplish instead.

Basically, we're spending a lot of money to do something an ineffective way. People with power realized this a while back and are slowly fixing it, look at how SFAB just took a big bite out of what legitimate missions SOF had. I can't speak for other services, but almost all of the major problems the US Army has are being worked on right now.

Cool guy shit is great for recruiting, though.

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>oing into villages to root out a HVT and just blasting every fighting aged male indiscriminately, so now that village and every other one nearby hates coalition forces, so now they ramp things up

has that really happened? These dudes are supposed to be surgical strikes, and they'll just murder everyone on site? How do they get away with it? Wouldn't someone eventually tell?

>are my heroes out in the desert doing b-b-bad things?????

this is you. Nigger you have no fucking idea what goes on out there. War is Hell threads exist on this board for a fucking reason.

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Supposedly. I wasn't there, I've heard about it from people providing security for them, from different sources online, etc. I don't have some specific verifiable source for you, because obviously that wouldn't exist for anything like this.

They get away with it because those people were collateral damage and there's nobody really around to question it, some company commander who got tasked with providing people for perimeter security isn't going to get to go in there and say 'ayo hol up' and shut everything down. Someone up top deemed this kind of thing necessary. Maybe someone did say something, though, because shit is changing.

And it's not like these dudes are purposefully going in to kill people and rile up the countryside as their goal, it's that the missions that they're being tasked with completing rile the shit out of everybody even worse than some retard running over a little kid by accident with an armored vehicle.

i'm not surprised that it happened, just the idea that it could be a long-term normal thing, known among a whole lot of people and kept quiet. these dudes arent as isolated as you think, a lot of people are involved in what they do, it's just interesting to imagine that so many people could be in the know, and it persisted.

what are some other good sources on this? has anyone spoken up about it? or is it going to be one of those things that gets half-mentioned in podcasts or whatever until a bigger expose is done and the truth gets blown out like with Red Wings

It's definitely the second, but I don't think a huge expose will ever be done, and I don't have a list of sources for you. This isn't something I particularly care about or something that I'm trying to spread the word about or whatever, so I don't save these things waiting to link other people to them, they're just what I've read over time in various places. I'm sure you could find more about it if you dug around. I was just answering your original question.

And SOF being a self justifying organization that doesn't actually fix any problems in a lot of cases and has very little oversight was my main point, not just that example.

do you really think a lot of the mission set for SOF could be done by conventional infantry? raids, for example

can someone with a newsrep sub paste this article?

thenewsrep.com/72126/military-leadership-to-blame-for-seal-team-six-war-crimes/

My uncle was in first recon. He had a skull fragment with a 5.56 bullet hole through it hung on top of his retirement paddle.
He said they took the head off and had it fed to ants to clean it. I don’t know man, he did some strange stuff. He was in first recon during operation operation Iraqi freedom I&II. Then he retired and joined black water then when black water went under pretty sure he worked with CIA but he wouldn’t never explicitly say so, he was just out of country a lot.

So I sort of believe him, then when he died and at his celebration of life they had his paddle there and the skull fragment was removed.
I saw picture from his first deployment, you know that dude that got popped in the head with the grenade launcher in generation kill, I saw that dude. I was 13-14 and my uncle brought this disc of picture because he confided in my mom for some reason, the Iraq was leaned against a palm tree and his head was clean gone from the shoulders up it was insane. Lots of other pictures. Lost that disc of pictures. Pictures of staying in saddams palace it was crazy.

This is a..an explanation. Could be right, or wrong. But think about this:
"Special Ops" units are larger and more plentiful than ever before, because the desire/need for them is greater than ever before. Due to the nature of the last 20 years of conflict that are still continuing, combined with the public's desire to see less overt military action/occupation, special ops units are being intentionally bloated and overworked. It's a highly competitive and intense environment that is requiring people to take shitloads of drugs and steroids to keep up, and to fill the ranks, we are allowing people that probably never should have been. People that aren't psychologically fit for it. Even 'well adjusted' individuals will become warped after all the bullshit of a career in SOCOM.

Command might not actually give a shit about any of this as long as the jobs are done.
Some might even encourage it.

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They wear apache patches now ffs, where have you been?

Does anyone know if Deltas do the same kind of shit? From what I've heard, the culture of self-aggrandizement isn't as prevalent among them.

Not that user, but I'd imagine that SOF could definitely be scaled back in numbers and have some of their duties passed to conventional forces. Rangers have already shown that elite heavy infantry can carry out raids.

Rangers are typically described as light infantry.

>can someone with a newsrep sub paste this article?
I got you senpai
crimes

by Jack Murphy · January 11, 2017

Yesterday The Intercept published an explosive article titled “The Crimes of SEAL Team Six” which accuses the unit of institutionalizing war crimes from a former unit commander on down into the enlisted ranks. Many SOFREP readers wrote to us asking if the allegations in the article are correct. While SOFREP cannot independently verify every claim made in the article, through numerous sources we are able to confirm that SEAL Team Six operators have committed war crimes to an extent that it can almost be described as the unit’s standard operating procedure.

These crimes include scalpings, canoeing (by shooting open the top of the skull), the taking of anatomical war trophies, and the needless killing of unarmed civilians. No one was more skeptical of these claims than I was, as this was such a profound departure from my own experience in Special Operations units. Over the years, I have been told of war crimes being committed by the unit which are described in The Intercept article as well as others that are even darker. One SEAL I spoke to described what was going on in the unit as resembling the Cormac McCarthy novel “Blood Meridian.”

I wish I could say that “The War Crimes of SEAL Team Six” is just a work of creative fiction or journalistic sensationalism. Sadly, the main trust of the article is factually correct.

1/2

Kill for a living
>Kill someone too hard
>Liberal cries over their death

Our Special Operations personnel have personal responsibility for any and all deliberate criminal activity undertaken while deployed overseas, however, perhaps what is more disturbing is the fact that dozens of military officers assigned to numerous commands such as SOCOM, JSOC, WARCOM, and Naval Special Warfare, enabled and facilitated these crimes by covering them up. These commands had numerous opportunities to address the issue and begin cleaning things up. Many believe that issues like this should be handled “in-house.” These commands had the chance to keep it in-house but chose to paper over the problem instead. The end result is a media expose.

These officers quickly compromised their integrity, honor, and service to their country for the sake of careerism. They thought they could ignore the problem and kick the can down the road. Meanwhile, the institutionalization of war crimes spread like a cancer throughout SEAL Team Six. To be clear, not every operator in SEAL Team Six committed war crimes. However, every operator assigned to the unit over the last 15 years knows about these crimes. Any who claim otherwise are telling a bold-faced lie.

2/3

3/3
At SOFREP, we tried to take a somewhat more subtle approach, urging the command to clean things up on their own through formal and informal communication channels. I published an article about why we have not been shown pictures of Osama Bin Laden’s corpse several years ago. It incited anger from a former SOCOM Command Sergeant Major who admitted to actually touching the corpse but said it was not mutilated. The Intercept story also contradicts the official narrative, claiming that Bin Laden had been branded by SEAL Team Six with one of their trademark war crimes by canoeing his skull.

The Crimes of SEAL Team Six is a sad commentary on what we have become after 15 years of war. As a friend said, what we have allowed our young men to become is a disgrace to our nation. Many soldiers and veterans will attempt to justify war crimes that place us in the same moral category as our enemies. We have traded our military ethics in for cheap self-satisfaction which served no tactical or strategic purpose, the war crimes being the masturbation of weak, damaged, or broken minds.

It is our hope that SOCOM, JSOC, and SEAL Team Six will now finally take corrective measures because the thought of an elite unit gone rogue is a nightmare on par with our deepest fears about groups such as Al Qaeda and ISIS.

their job and entire existence is about going to exotic places to go kill people in new and exciting ways
of course you're not going to get good people

Then how come literally no other unit but the SEAL Teams have this problem, or at least to this degree?

>SEALS
>heroes

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you don't think it happens?
seals just get the most publicity and thus the most scrutiny

I'm not saying bad things don't happen in other units. One SF guy tried to smuggle a lot of coke, to Marine high speeds murdered the SF guy to cover up their crimes, 75th has a bit of a toxic culture, especially directed at newer initiates.

The difference is, even if a few bad apples may slip through other units, they aren't nearly as often or egregious.

Source on that pic and here's hoping she's not underage

thanks senpai you're the man

I guess the idea is the less oversight you have the more shit happens
Only explanation I can give is the leadership doesn’t give a shit about these things and anyone who criticizes them is some bleeding heart liberal hippy commie (from their point of view) so they resent any sort of interference in the way they run things so shit just gets progressively worse and worse

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This. Send men repeatedly into life or death situations and most will choose life. Be in an environment where every man, woman and child can and will blow you to fuck with a bomb vest, and the distinction of "bruh, not the kids" fades. Ugly , filthy hell of war with multiple deployments into incredibly unsafe areas. Liberals peek through the hole and are horrified by the reality. Hero to war criminal over night. Thank god there are men willing to take these chances. No merit in dying a nice guy when living is an option.

i think the problem is they go too far to the point of adversely affecting the mission, like when they killed those dudes the CIA wanted, or when they canoe'd UBL and fucked up face ID

>liberal reporter trying to muckrake the military
>theintercept
worse, a 'woke-servative' reporter.

you know the hand grenade scene in american sniper is a total fabrication, right?

there's a difference between people just trying to survive through a deployment and then the guys who volunteer to keep doing this kind of shit
in any event we shouldn't be there at all, we can't fight people's wars for them