For all the discussion of firearms and topics related to them, I don’t see much about marksmanship or accuracy goals/standards. In terms of actually using firearms, being able to hit your target is the most important ability, and should be the most important thing to train as a shooter. Jow Forums has the 1/2/3/4 strength standard for the compound barbell movements, for example. I think it would be great to get something similar here. What sort of groupings, from what ranges, and what stance should each Jow Forumsommando strive to achieve with pistol and rifle? My preliminary Googling on military marksmanship standards doesn’t yield any hard numbers on the groupings or ranges, just breakdowns of the different qualification courses, so I’m unsure what to use as a starting point.
Here’s a starting proposal loosely based on my own shooting. >10” group at 20 yards with handgun (standing) >4” group at 20 yards with rifle (standing) >4” group at 100 yards with rifle (bench rested or prone) >Hit a 16” steel target 50% of the time at 250 yards (bench rested or prone) Obviously there would need to be some accommodation for irons vs. optics/scopes at longer ranges. I’d like to hear y’all’s thoughts on this.
there is no standard every state, every police department, every military has a standard for their firearm/ammunition combination.
you cannot hold a person shooting a PCC to the same standard as a person shooting a handgun or shotgun or a sniper rifle.
There is no one single stance that is best. Weaver, isosceles they all have a place depending on the situation. Same with standing, sitting, prone.
There are too many variables to create a standard.
Hunter Wood
minimums, not good, but minimum.
centerfire rifle >8" free hand 100 yards centerfire pistol >8" free hand 20 yards benched centerfire >within 0.5MOA of mechanical accuracy inside 100 yards
someone who speed shoots drop their opinion on drills.
Lincoln Nelson
like said there is not real shooting standard because of so many variables in stances let alone varibles in Jow Forums's aresnals. But I think just encouraging Jow Forumsommandos to work on marksmanship is a great idea.
Anthony Walker
>hey guys! I see everyone has different standards and I wanna collaborate and see if we can set some sort of standard so people can have a measurement of performance
>everyone has different standards
Thanks for the input user! You've bumped the thread! Much like your irresponsible mother bumped your head when you were a newborn and still had a soft skull.
My only question is do you think .5 moa is possible when using the psa ar15s and the steel cased 55 gr .223 that 90% of Jow Forums users are shooting?
Asher Sullivan
>within half moa of mechanical accuracy as in, if you have a 3 moa rifle, you need to be able to shoot 3.5 moa I think is reasonable
Xavier Brown
>every state, every police department, every military has a standard for their firearm/ammunition combination. You're mistaking my question. I'm not saying we standardize equipment or grip method. I'm saying there is a minimum level of accuracy all proficient shooters should hold themselves to achieve with each sort of weapon, and I'd like to know your thoughts on what that is.
When you say "free hand", do you mean unsupported? So someone could shoot crouched or standing as long as they aren't bracing against something else like a bench/wall/ground? If so I like those two. >within 0.5MOA of mechanical accuracy inside 100 yards While I appreciate that you're trying to accomodate variable levels of quality in the guns and make it all about the shooter, this is hardly easily communicable like the 1/2/3/4 strength standard. Absolute standards like your first two are better than relative ones like your first two. If mechanical accuracy is a limiting factor on a *minimum* acceptable standard, that's a REALLY bad gun.
>So someone could shoot crouched or standing as long as they aren't bracing against something else like a bench/wall/ground? yes, but I had standing in mind. I think it would be good for other unsupported as well though. Only points of contact being hands and shoulder and those may not be braced on anything either. Not leaning hands on knee if sitting for example. >this is hardly easily communicable Youre right. If you can shoot well enough to determine mechanical accuracy theres no way of knowing where you are. Say carbine inside of 3.5" at 100 yards? It might be unfair to those using AKs compared to a gucci freefloat ar15 but it's a combat capable minimum. I recently tried to group an sks with irons and it seems mechanically a 5" gun qnd id thats all someone has it might be hard to judge their own skill.
Juan Cox
*cant shoot well enough
Adam Anderson
Oh! Gotcha. Thank you.
Christian Reyes
>Say carbine inside of 3.5" at 100 yards? Sounds good to me as long as it can be bench-rested or prone. Unsupported, that's a stellar shot. Desu I think it should be about the results of the shot rather than the comparative virtues of what you're shooting with. Like if you can say you can run a 5-minute mile, that's a far clearer standard than "well, my mile time is 8-minutes but I'm 100 lbs overweight so if you remove that factor it's basically a 5-minute if I had the same physique as someone who runs track regularly."
Noah Parker
>Sounds good to me as long as it can be bench-rested or prone benched under ideal rest 3.5" at 100 yards >Like if you can say you can run a 5-minute mile, that's a far clearer standard than "well, my mile time is 8-minutes but I'm 100 lbs overweight so if you remove that factor it's basically a 5-minute if I had the same physique as someone who runs track regularly." Im all for larping but are we building a fighting force requirement or helping Jow Forums understand what's an acceptable standard for personal marksmanship? Tbf, I do hope everyone has a rifle capable of 3.5" at 100 yards though.
Any thoughts on a more speed related drill thats simple and can easily be set up?
James Roberts
>Any thoughts on a more speed related drill thats simple and can easily be set up? Hm. Speed is so very relative. Hard to compare someone with a Nugget to an AR in terms of either successive shots or reloading. You'd need separate categories for bolt-action and semi-auto for sure. The only universal setup I can think of is something like >one round in magazine >timer starts >must put shot on target within X parameter (big circle) >load new magazine/clip/round >put second shot within same parameter >timer stops Personally I think accuracy>>>>>speed. I love going fast but it's a lot more important to put your shot where it needs to be. And that's a lot simpler to gauge across a population. I like this video on it - youtube.com/watch?v=gCOGhiaW5SA
Use the US Alt C course and MP pistol and shotgun qualifications. They list ranges and other standards.
Aaron Bailey
I qualified for expert at the pistol range in boot if that means anything.
Jayden Morgan
Man sized target, 0-300 yards, repeatable center mass hits with SOMETHING that you can afford to stock a decent amount of ammo for
Ryder Kelly
not everyone has 300 yard ranges but most people have 100 yard and do you mean standing or benched?
Jacob Campbell
it doesnt
Kevin Lee
SLOW FIRE: -5 shots in 6” at 25yds any handgun -5 shots in 10” at 100yds offhand rifle any optic -5 shots in 12” @200 prone with irons -5 shots in 18” any optic 400yds
RAPID FIRE: Handgun: Draw to A-zone hit @5yds in 1s Draw from concealment to A zone hit @5yds in 1.5 Draw to 5 A zone hits @7yds in 3s
Rifle: Low ready to torso target hit @100yds 2.0s Low ready to 5 A zone hits @15yds 3.0s
Jace Fisher
you can tell which one values rifles over pistols and pistols over rifle
Nolan Peterson
if you can shoot 6” at 25 with a pistol then 6” at 100 with a rifle shouldn’t be a problem.
Owen Bennett
Maybe do something like the Appleseed AQT?
Make a target that is supposed to be posted at 50yds.
Have silhouettes of a man on them scaled to mimic certain distances
Post times and round counts to hit each target >ie 10 rds standing into the 100yd silhouette in 30 seconds >ie 5r5 into 500yd prone in 45 seconds
Jordan Edwards
Okay retard
Elijah Evans
I just hit the target. I don't care about groups too much. But mine are pretty tight. Generally I score 100% on my qualifications for work. But my groups are "meh" tier.
Connor Ross
>Generally I score 100% on my qualifications for work What do you do that you need accuracy with firearms for work?
Hudson Rogers
>Oh man its almost as of we had a drill of the month thread that challenged Jow Forumsommandos to run a variety of drills used by mil/leo/comp all over
Doesnt matter, no one on this board is shootgunz anyway
Aiden Long
pistol technique carries over to rifle technique
Levi Lopez
putting this as my desktop background
Army standard is fine for me.
Connor Morgan
Sadly, i know that i'm awful but i can't practice because i don't own guns.
Christian Evans
Im not a great shot but I like to use cans and try to hit them consistently and thats the highest my standards really go
Evan Lewis
Seems kinda weird. When do you shoot at 20yds with a pistol? Faster accuracy at 10yds and in makes more sense. >50% at 250yds You could probably do better. But I guess that's okay if you arent using magnification.
