>an AV-8B Harrier (which is STOVL like F-35B) with a gross weight of 29,000 lb (13,000 kg) on a 59 °F (15 °C) day and a 35 kn (40 mph; 65 km/h) wind over the deck would require 400 ft (120 m) to take off using the 12° ski-jump ramp.......The same plane would use the entire 750 ft (230 m) length of the Tarawa class's flat flight deck. U.S.
>....marine aviators who experimented with takeoffs.........found the improvement to be "nothing short of amazing." The United States is the only country which operates STOVL aircraft from carriers without a ski-jump ramp.
>Murrikan pilots now wish to imitate navies of third world muslim shitholes and add ramps to their ships
burgers are finished.
Josiah Richardson
It's got the "wee" factor if all you're doing is taking off with no payload. Kind of sucks to have to stop and refuel 2 minutes after takeoff combined with reduced payloads.
Gabriel Gray
The problem with ramps in this regard is bringback.
Ski jumps are basically deck extensions in lieu of adding an extra 50 feet of runway. The drawback is that you still need a length of runway just to get enough speed to climb the ramp.
The Catapult ultimately wins out because it takes up maybe 20 feet total of deck space while still allowing heavier take offs
Leo Bennett
Sweet ramp Hitler, mind if I do some jumps off it?
>he didnt even think about what happens when you add a payload to the plane when taking off from a ramp why am i talking to a vatnik? im not going to get a good response no matter what is posted.
Joshua Bailey
Have food
Tyler Baker
>F35 gets launched into the atmosphere
Nolan Moore
Who would've that the ramp meme wasnt real?
Noah Hill
Sure, ramps are great for fighters. I can see how that might feel like an improvement when you're in something that is capable of shooting itself off with the amount of runway that a carrier provides.
Now launch an AWACS off of that.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Charles Stewart
You see, the problem with these ramps is that it puts heavier aircraft into an immediate stall.
Jonathan Cruz
What if they used a half pipe? Go down and build speed, go rocketing off the upward slope.
Angel Walker
Try launching an AWACS off the Tarawa/America class. Go on, I'll wait.
Jackson Roberts
>Sure, ramps are great for fighters. yeah, it sure is great being forced to take off with less fuel and armament than you otherwise would...
it would have to be large to make any significant difference and its huge size would make it a pain in the ass to have to constantly raise and lower. the rate that the carrier could deploy its aircraft will be even more pitiful than just having 1 ramp.
Carson Powell
carrierborne AWACS is pointless for any country that isn't America.
let me guess. you cant afford sidewalks, but waste money to build little fake public services?
Matthew Martin
Why not a catapult and a ski ramp at the end of it?
Elijah Reed
There are easier ways of performing zoom climbs.
Parker Brown
and what was your point?
Owen Russell
The best part is that an LHD with a ramp would BTFO Queen Lizzy.
Christopher Brooks
how? its smaller with a smaller air group.
Brody Fisher
Not really. The QE class is a step forward in traditionally powered carrier tech. It has a smaller crew than the America class, carries nearly 3x as many F-35s and has much better over all tech while not costing much more for the overall program while having a much lower ship count. If anything, the US would be better served by buying 11 QE carriers than the LHDs on order, reducing the entire program cost and strengthening the ties between the US and UK and providing more tech share as with the F-35.
Ethan Stewart
Why not combine the catapult and ramp to maximise the take-off weight?
Logan Jones
Have less food.
Evan Ortiz
carrier aircraft have very low stall speeds, a catapult has no problem taking you to that line or above it.
Camden Scott
But with a ramp you can go even heavier. A ramp is just a gently curved part of the runway and should be easy to add to any carrier design.
Owen Gonzalez
>But with a ramp you can go even heavier.
It doesn't work like that. The ramp gives the aircraft more time to accelerate before it hits the ocean and the cat accelerates the aircraft directly to a speed where it can sustain flight.
A longer runway after you are already at flight speed doesn't help. If you have a cat you don't need a ramp.
Noah Parker
retard, most european cities are ancient and predate pedestrian codes lol
Henry Wright
The argument against ramps isn't as you seem to think it is. It's not that ramps aren't better than no ramp, it's that the host country is so poor they can't even afford to equip their flagship with nuclear powered steam catapults, which are objectively better than ramps for a number of reasons. Not only that, but the argument extends to the fact that The United States of America has 11 - ELEVEN of them and is in the process of building more but those other "superpowers" [read: poor-ass ghetto nations] can't even build one
Jackson Robinson
ramp is trading forward momentum for a momentary positive rate of climb. that extra bit of push that is received from the momentum transfer may be just enough to send it over the precipice where combined with the directional thrust will create a moment where the aircraft is weightless and able to accelerate and recoup the speed lost from momentum transfer
not a good idea for planes that do not have vtol/stol capabilities purely because it requires a pitifully small load out + the lightest fuel state you can get to keep drag low and thrust to weight ratio high as possible
i'm more than certain everything i just typed is wrong though.
Partially because shoving a 30 metric ton Hornet up a ramp isn't fun. Partially it feels like your pussyfooting around to launch silos which are awesome in their own right but a bit too sci-fi for right now..
Mostly, nobody has figured out how to curve the catapult runs along a ski jump without getting snagged and nobody is interested in figuring it out.
Luke Butler
>being this fucking ignorant
Thomas Foster
>nuclear powered steam catapults, which are objectively better than ramps for a number of reasons Blatantly incorrect, and shows low cognitive abilites. You can't even build you carriers with two islands.
Jaxson Morris
he's not wrong. i bet you can't even find a video or an image of any aircraft that even has all its pylons loaded doing ramp launches.
vatnik cope
Josiah Rogers
>i'm more than certain everything i just typed is wrong though You are. The only loadout not carried is the 2000lbers. The origin of this myth seems to be the differences in take of weight. The majority of which is the weight of airframe for Cs being increased to withstand the stresses of landing. The seconds being the lower fuel capaicity because the engine takes up the third fuel tank space.
Leo Evans
>stealth aircraft >using pylons, forfeiting its intended advantage
>vatnik cope Wrong, but seing as how you're too stupid to fathom the disadvantages of nuclear and catobar, expected.
Lucas Jones
>be tranny mutt navy using steam catapults in 2019.
kek
Asher Cruz
>steam catapults, which are objectively better
maybe if your a retard like trump, who ordered the navy to keep using them vs electromagnetic catapults.
John Price
What about putting the whole suite of AWACS sensors into an Osprey? Then you need zero runway.
Blake Ross
Ramp allows the F35B to launch at a much higher combat payload than using its vertical launch. This is basic bitch knowledge.
Nolan Baker
This meme only applies to Slavshit. Harrier and F-35B are proper STO aircraft that can take-off with full fuel plus weapons
Bentley Rogers
>12° ski-jump ramp Dude what if we tilt the whole ship 12° with ballast tanks?
>pilots flying the worst variant of the F-35 find the worst flight deck configuration "amazing" Color me surprised
Evan Walker
>Pilots flying the most aesthetic VTOL plane off the right carrier configuration love it and realise that they've been doing it wrong for decades
Brandon Stewart
A ramp placed after an acceleration area converts speed into altitude. You'd just be launching aircraft uphill (unless the power/weight is under 1:1, then you'd be launching subs at a not so hihg speed)
Josiah King
OP's a retard, those would be marine pilots not Navy.
Ryder Thompson
>the most aesthetic VTOL plane Considering that the Harrier is ugly as shit, I'll give you that. But it doesn't change the fact that it has less fuel, a smaller payload, and less flight hours per airframe due to the structural aberration that is the gaping fan hole. And all of that so that a branch so pointless it threw a tantrum to have written, in law, that it "cannot be reduced to a symbolic size", can keep its gimmicky "jum jet" ability.
I was talking about the gorgeous harrier, as I read OP and understood it. >Thinks STOVL is a gimmick We're done here.
James Phillips
They loved being able to drink more.
Noah Mitchell
But not as much as the CATOBAR F35C with a catapult.
Owen Long
Seems that this is all rocket assisted. Not that rocket assisted takeoffs are bad but you could vertically take off a C-130 with enough rocket assistance.
I was under the impression that it was in current use.
Jacob Hernandez
You might be right, wiki says there's one surviving one. > As of February 2008, the other surviving Operation Credible Sport aircraft, 74-2065, was assigned to the 317th Airlift Group, 15th Expeditionary Mobility Task Force, at Dyess Air Force Base, Texas, in gray scheme with blue tail band.
>comparing an europoor aircraft carrier to an amphibious assault ship >implying the US of A is in desperate need of putting more firepower on STOVL planes when a single american supercarrier has more planes than the entire airforce of most countries
Wasn't the F/A-18 pitched to India with the claim that it could launch with a full combat load from their ramp carrier?
Jaxon Gomez
>Navy experiments with new uses for the Zumwalt
Ethan Edwards
Not even close. The exact wording wasn't full but something like "relevant" weapons and fuel load-out. Boeing has only ran simulations of it and never actual tested it but depending on WOD expect around 17-20ton takeoff weight. I.e couldn't even take full internal fuel load.
Carter Price
I think the F/A-18 is certified for use on ramps, but I doubt it can carry the same load it’d have on a cat.
Christopher Nelson
lol
Thomas Jenkins
Found the American
Kayden Rogers
It hasn't been bolted down but also isn't stolen
THIS SCARES AND CONFUSES ME
Daniel Morris
OP is citing Harriers flying on a Spanish carrier in the eighties.
Alexander Bailey
Why not just have a 20ft runway that tilts so you catapult and take off already at an angle?
Michael Roberts
Post teeth you insufferable tea nigger
Jayden Cruz
>launch silos All my yes.
Chase Perry
Ecats don't work
Xavier Edwards
It saw use, but iirc one of the airframes got busted on a bad landing.
Zachary Moore
Not really sure how this is news, for STOVL aircraft a ramp provides greater lift for heavier loadouts than a conventional flat decked LHA/D. I never understood the phobia of them. >Pic related
You'd think with all the mobility scooter use you murricans would like ramps a bit more
Liam Thompson
It's probably the precise reason why we hate ramps, actually. We naturally associate them with poverty and obesity.
Xavier Mitchell
>New study finds that Naval morale has increased dramatically aboard the new USS Barak Obama due to, quote "sicknasty jees" and the crew putting quote "fags in orbit" >when asked what this coded language meant, Naval aviator John Smith responded only "weeeeeee!" as he skipped away with a smile
Lucas Howard
It provides no greater lift directly. Instead it puts the aircraft into an aerodynamically stable arc in the air. This effectively gives more time to reach flight speed by giving the aircraft more time before the aircraft's path would intersect with the water, when compared to flying off the end of the boat without a ramp at lower then flight speed.
The problem is a pretty simple one: There is a minimal required thrust/weight ratio for the aircraft to take off with the ramp because all of it's acceleration is coming from it's own resources. The maximum load with a ramp is restricted by how much thrust the aircraft can generate at afterburner, meaning the aircraft has to go light and burns a nontrivial amount of fuel taking off.
The cat simply accelerates the aircraft to flight speed directly, with no real concern for the aircraft's own thrust/weight ratio. This means you can launch from a cat with much heavier stores.
Americans prefer their flat tops as they expect LHD to mostly operate helio that obviously don't have any use of a ramp and have catapult equipped carriers if they need to launch heavy loaded aircraft.
Ryder Reed
so like a spring board that pops up when the aircraft is on it
Eli Gray
Do you know how long 20 feet is? Because I don't think you do.
