Okay, what's the final concensus on the T-72?

Fucking this

>what's the final concensus on the T-72?
>Posts T-64
The final consensus is that you have to lurk more.

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T-64 was too difficult to mass produce, hence why they made the T-72 in the first place

and the value they applied to the T-64 meant that they kept them in Europe while the T-72 saw real action, leaving the T-64 a white elephant to its nominally inferior brother doing more work overall
even in a hypothetical drive to the channel, the T-72 would have equipped more units and take most of the burden

the T-64 is the bourgeoisie tank that stayed at home and wanked off to gun, armor, speed while the glorious working T-72 actually went out and did real work

>the T-64 is the bourgeoisie tank that stayed at home
>What is GSFG?

poser fags who wanked off for the camera

everyone knew the first echelon was disposable anyway

>T-64 was too difficult to mass produce

Didn't stop them from blowing a shitload of money doing that anyways.

unironically a death trap

Unironically a good, solid tank.

There is good reason why the T-72 (and the T-54 and T-55 which came before it) are so widely used.
In a Soviet/Warsaw Pact combined arms doctrine they were effective.
It's simple enough that virtually any military can operate it, many of which will not encounter anything better.
Enough room and weight capacity that the design can keep being upgraded and modified.
On top of all of that, it's a gorgeous tank.

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Nice T-64 picture, OP faggot.

According to warthunder, it's awful compared to german and american counterparts. but lets be real, that game is kinda shit.

In real life, it's a VERY cost effective tank. It has good survivability for the price. It can withstand RPG's and even some ATGM's at certain angles. It will not survive most modern anti-tank sabot rounds, except for oblique frontal hits. But then if you're getting lit up by another piece of modern armor you're probably fucked anyways.

It has a capable main gun, decent optics, and good reliability. Lots of bolt-on upgrades, if you can afford them.

10/10 would buy. I'd prefer numerous T-72's over a couple abrams.

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>According to warthunder

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>using boreblunder even in irony

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>according to snore slumber
kys

And then you would be killed at night out of your optics range, why the abrams tank commander jacked off.

>According to warthunder

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A GOOD SOLID TANK

in a real life situation, your 2 abrams will never get the fabled last stand against 20 T-72s, where they construct a hull down position from the charred husks of soviet steel

you will leave 1 abrams in europe to secure the front, while the second one is sent to somehow enforce your will on the entire world by itself
while most of your 20 T-72s are sold to friends to pay for the second wave

>Okay, what's the final concensus on the T-72?

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Reminder: Most T series tanks the US faced were outdated export models designed for low-IQ dark-skinned people.

Yikes, so if we were facing the real ones, we might have actually lost one tank.

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the export model wasnt as far in performance from the standard T-72 as most people think

the only difference that would have had a major difference would have been a tungsten APFSDS, which would have given the Iraqis maybe 1 or 2 kills

but the overall issue is much deeper than monkey models
they had bad leadership and bad crews while also fighting the 120mm armed abrams with upgraded optics and fire control, far more deadly than the 105mm abrams they expected to fight back then
even in cases where they had a good, on paper, defensive plan with good positions, their bad crews caused them to suffer horribly

this is not an issue with the T-72, which was doing its best, but an issue with the men inside

They certainly have an aura of utility about them.

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>this is not an issue with the T-72, which was doing its best, but an issue with the men inside

Its a shit tank and lollipops like a fucker. What the fuck are you a use tank salesman? Even fucking bradeys ripped them. Every fucking time rusisan gear fails as usual its the old its not the gear its the operator. It was fucking useless in afghan as well too Ivan with Russian crews. Simple answer is the T-72 is a pile of shit because it was designed and made in russia

>T series tanks
Fucking stop

>that wasnt real socialism
>real socialism has never been tested
lel

When it was launched and for about the next ten years it was a remarkably good tank, especially considering that it was meant to be a mass produced tank for the masses.
But also soviet philosophy meant that it had natural shortcomings (i.e. no armored ammo compartment because it had to be very small and light for what it was).
These design shortcomings meant that it was limited regarding the possibilities of further improvement. Armor, fire control, engine were by far not as easily replaceable/upgradeable as in western tanks.
With the advent of modern western tanks, especially Abrams and Leo 2 it fell short. The more the 80s went on the more it became clear that the "raw" nature of the mass produced tank was too raw for the battlefield. Manual transmission lead to increased driver fatigue, three men crew meant more work for each of them during maintenance.
It didnt help that the soviets fell short when it came to sophisticated electronics - most versions of the 72 suffered from a bad night fighting cabability.

tl;dr: T-72 was a great tank when it came out but its design philosophy along with general soviet shenanigans prevented it from being upgraded enough to stay on that level. By the mid 80s (yes, even the up-armored versions) had fallen back behind their western counterparts

I disagree.

Hopefully for T72 Abrams gets stuck in the proxy's special economic zone port waiting for fuel and fueling ancillaries that were scammed by middlemen and don't manage to arrive before the congress vote. Effects are effects.

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The only truly Jow Forums answer. Makes all the other nu-Jow Forums and summer/k/amp posts here even more stand out like a sore thumb

And check my trips of truth you mongs

Those Leo2s and M1s didn't do any better in sandnig hands.
>It was fucking useless in afghan as well
Of course it was since it wasn't deployed there.

nothing does good in sandhands
nothing

Based and correct yeah poster

Toyotas do if they are fighting each other.

Worst thing T-series has ever faced is Pewdiepie.

Could give them basically anything and in a week you'd see videos of whatever it was abandoned or destroyed due to operator incompetence and cowardice.

>"Every fucking time rusisan gear fails as usual its the old its not the gear its the operator."
Ok heres another way of putting it, imagine the only use of US equipment like Abrams, Leopards, LAVs, Bradleys etc. we had to base off was their less than favorable service in the hand of arab countries, no spectacular Gulf war or Israeli successes in the hands of skilled operators.

Do you see just how much that would skew our understanding of the true value and capabilities of these weapons? In many ways certain Soviet equipment has faced this dilemma, the T-72 is just another on the list that never had a good opportunity to prove itself in the way the Abrams or such have.

>" It was fucking useless in afghan as well"
yeah we already knew you were full of shit we didn't need the confirmation

Tank was fine.

That's a T-64 you mong.

But it was a pretty good tank at the time. It did everything the T-64 did, only simpler, cheaper, better and more reliably.

It also had better frontal protection that the T-80 even, and the laser-beam riding Svir ATGM was a way better solution than the complicated radio-command guided/UV flare in the back Kobra.

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Do you know how I know you're a dumb piece of shit? The T-72 was never used in Afghanistan. For about the same reasons the M60 wasn't used in Vietnam. No point in throwing the best armor against illiterate villagers.

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OC

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OC #2

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A very effective way to give motorifle divisions of the late 70s a decent strength tank regiment, something the T-55 wasn't quite up to anymore even if they still did well for infantry support in most cases..

>According to warthunder

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Based T-62, doing the jobs nobody else wanted to.

I have this book and according to it the T-62 is indeed fucking based.

It was originally intended as a tank-destroyer attached to T-55 units, but became the standard work horse, doing the shit the fancy-pants T-64 was too valuable to do.

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post pics of the book please. Help an user out. I really want to see the content of the book

I don't have it with me. But it's safe to say it covers everything. In-service photos, museum walkarounds, schematics, interior pics, history, design, description of major systems, etc.

Tankograd is pretty good. Another amazing book I have from them is this, this is pretty much the definitive book on MASSTER camo.

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Thanks user. Speaking of Tankograd, I did check out their blogpost. Really nice.

thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html

Sweet Jesus they covered everything about this tank.
Table of Contents

Ergonomics
Commander's Station
TKN-3M
Commander's Fire Controls
Communications
Gunner's Station
Sighting Complexes
TPD-2-49
1A40
1A40-1
Auxiliary Sights
TPN-1-49-23
TPN3-49
1K13-49
1A40-4 Sosna-U
Stabilizers
2E28M "Sireneviy"
2E42-2 "Zhasmin"
2E42-4
Meteorological Mast
D-81T Cannon
2A26M-2
2A46
2A46M
2A46M-5
Ammunition Stowage
Autoloader
Loose Stowage
Ammunition
HE-Frag
HEAT
APFSDS
PKT Co-axial Machine Gun
NSVT Anti-Aircraft Machine Gun
Storage
Escape Hatch
Driver's Station

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The section about the Ammunition and the Armor made me pop a boner

Publishers like Tankograd are more aimed at the hardcore scale model builder, who strives for 100% accuracy. I got most of my books at model builder conventions.

Ridiculously underrated post

I like the look of it, might buy one.

I came here to post this,

shit-64 was a mistake

If the T-64 was much better than the T-72, why are T-72s still so damn common. I know that the 64 wasnt really exported, but surely the Russians would have based the T-90 on the 64 instead of the 72 if it were better

Not great, not terrible.

From how I've read it, the Soviets intended the T-64 as a replacement for their heavy tanks while still being an MBT. The T-72 had less armor and was cheaper to build, it ended up becoming much more popular because they could be produced quickly and upgrades eventually made it just as capable or more.
The T-64 and T-80 both suffered from a similar problem of the powerpack being complex/expensive and political pressure urging something more affordable.

>T series tanks

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>A very effective way to give motorifle divisions of the late 70s a decent strength tank regiment, something the T-55 wasn't quite up to anymore even if they still did well for infantry support in most cases..
Now, obviously the Sovs wanted a real, up-to-date tank to fill tank roles plus infantry support roles with the Motor Rifles. But what if they also kept the older tanks around purely as infantry support weapons? Even an old POS can roll up to a bunker and blast it out of the way. Not worth the fuel&maint costs maybe? Not worth the weight of a T-55 in a unit of BMPs?

Warsaw Pact didn't retire anything, some T-55s and T-62s were upgraded to AM/M standard to keep them around in Central Asian/Siberian districts, the rest went into mothball with the T-34s and T-10s to arm the mobilization divisions that would compromise the 3rd wave.

>1989
>Leopard 1A5, Challenger 1, Chieftains of various marks, M60A1/A3, M1/M1A1 Abrams, AMX-30s
>VERSUS
>T-72, T-64, T-62, and a shitload of T-55/54s, T-10s, SU-100/85, T-44s, T-34-85s, and I bet even a few T-34-76.

Would pay big money to see.

the mosin nagant of tanks

... what keeps the track pad pins in? I don't see a nut.

I think the idea was by the time the antiques are hitting the frontlines, they are fighting NATO's dregs and reservists.

Ok so M47/M48s, Centurions, AMX13s, and Sweden trying to fuck Ivan with IKV103s and Strvs?

Even better show then.

Ferocious for its time, weighed down in current year+3 with features that cannot be changed.

>According to warthunder

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>According to a video game i like to play
your typical ex-commie state fanboy

>Using a biased russian game as a reference for irl performance

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WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

As I understand it, the third echelon troops was never meant to see action if the soviets invaded.
Their role if any would be occupation. The main role they had was in soviet defensive planning, to be used as speed bumps if the West pushed into the Soviet Union, to give more time for reforming and positioning of stronger elements.

>be random Armenian churka in 1988
>stupid faggots in kreml completely blew the invasion of the west
>NATO is now pushing east
>be armed with moist nugget
>ride into battle on the back of a T34-85
>face opponents using Leo 2, M1A1, AH-64 and Bradleys
>blyaaat.jpg

>Strvs
According to Wargame: Airland Battle, which we all know is a 100 accurate and realistic simulation of the Cold War gone hot, the Strv 103 is a absolute murder machine if pitched against cheap slavshit. An exceptional rate of fire, auto loader, small size and decently cheap.

It’s a damn shame the frogs had to fuck up that franchise with the abortion that was Red Dragon.

It was ruined when Airland battle came out and they did the worst possible mechanic for fixed wing that they could think of.

The campaigns where better in EE but as a multiplayer game, AB was better even if air combat was wonky.

Red Dragon made all aspects worse though, with brown and uninspired maps, unplayable naval, cluster arty, broken DLC teams and a host of other bullshit issues.

I have the Osprey book on the T-62, which is pretty good for an Osprey publication. T-62 doesn't get the credit it deserves, solid gun for a tank of that era that performed well in the right hands and gave great service saving newer tanks from having to fight in shitty asymmetric conflicts. I'm pretty sure the Russians are currently offering another round of upgrades for both their own T-62s and those of client states.

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Can confirm, military model books are just about the best source of unbridled tech and spec autism you can get.

>upgrades for their own T-62
Not sure about that, I think it was that Tankograd book that said the Russians only had about 50 in service by the time of the South Ossetia war.

>Okay, what's the final concensus on the T-72?

For one, that's not a T-72 in your image.

Overall, it was light years ahead of what the US had at the same time. Fucking M60s and M48s?

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>thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html

Holy fugg. That's a detailed article!

Apparently they are no longer in Russian service as of 2013. Perhaps it's more to do with making them more appealing to buyers?

Good in it's day, kept in active service a couple of decades too long.

youtube.com/watch?v=F1bt5uafQY4

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SPLITTER!

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-62#Operators

Well the biggest operator right now is North-Korea but their chronic lack of dosh, and the habit of using domestic upgrades rules them out as a potential buyer.

They're probably for Assad. Maybe Egypt, Cuba, or some of the other non-western aligned country could be a potential buyer.