>UK and Sweden signed a MOU on future combat aircraft technologies but neither Sweden nor SAAB joined "Team Tempest". >no other potential partners >defence minister forced to explain that Tempest isn't a paper plane >announcement of two other projects with hypersonic propulsion and defence space program, despite without meaningful numbers
Can we expect that anything will actually happen with the Tempest or will it and several things slowly get killed by the next White Paper in 2020?
I don't think there is much market left for a 6th gen plane if the American and that France-German projects are already years ahead.
I think it was intended to be a sort of "hail mary" type of thing to try and get the countries that aren't already working on a next-gen fighter together, but the Tempest hasn't really attracted a lot of real interest. >hypersonic propulsion The Bongs are trying for an SR-72 type thing?
But you don't need to read the article past the first sentence
>Britain’s defense ministry is stepping up its interest in hypersonics with a $12 million contract to Rolls-Royce and its industrial partners to develop high-Mach aircraft propulsion systems.
It's a joke.
Gabriel Kelly
Only hope of getting a decent yuro 6th gen is merging FCAS and Tempest tbqh
Luis Phillips
From a strategic point of view it's about maintaining the aerospace capability to build a 6th gen fighter, the main contracts won't be signed for years if ever, but the govt. wants to keep the options open rather than risk rolling up in 10 years wanting a 6th gen fighter only to have RR & BAe turn around and go "well these were deeply unprofitable divisions so we shut them down, now we literally can't do any of that. I hope you guys like buying chinese or american"
You're also forgetting that the Tempest is pulling heavily from the REPLICA expertise and like the FCAS it has been in development for a number of years already. It's not possible to say which program is furthest ahead because it's all being done behind closed doors.
Of course, that's too nuanced for the 13 year olds and russians on Jow Forums that conveniently forget that the UK is one of the largest economies on the earth with one of the most developed tech sectors.
Remember kids PAKFA = GOOD, WEST DOOMED. F35, TEMPEST, FCAS = BAD, WEST DOOMED.
Designing aircraft isn't a linear path. They're ahead in some ways, behind in others. Some are over defensive, others are over critical.
But hey, welcome to fucking Jow Forums, where reasonable discourse is impossible.
Dylan Torres
Tempest hasn't started at all. There is a reason why the defense minister was forced to do that Tempest is not a paper plane speech.
What we know of Tempest isn't more than an industry pitch.
Charles Baker
It's just delusions of a dead empire.
Angel Rogers
What a trash island
Dominic Cox
>American and that France-German projects are already years ahead.
It is years ahead. France and Germany are still discussing their shared requirements. The UK completed that in 2015-2017 and had been working on Tempest for a year before it was announced. The jet is also based on work done in the 90's for the UK's 5th gen programs before they were merged with JSF.
The UK has £2bn of funding and have people already working on the design.
FCAS don't even have a firm concept yet.
This spin on the OP shows how assblasted he is over tempest.
Christian Mitchell
That's some denial
Justin Hughes
>no other potential partners Given how fucked up the eurofighter and F35 development was, this seems like a good thing.
Luis Ortiz
i don't see a rebuttal
Isaac Martinez
You just posted nonsense
Jack Phillips
>The UK completed that in 2015-2017 The Tempest program doesn't have any partners though. If they found a foreign country for team Tempest, they'd have to hash out the requirements that the other nation has for a next-generation fighter. SCAF or whatever the fuck it's called already has Germany,France, and Spain onboard.
Christopher Mitchell
>You just posted nonsense
Which bit specifically?
>The Tempest program doesn't have any partners though.
It has industry partners. Companies who clearly see the financial viability.
The UK is using the F35 model of the UK leading the way with companies and countries who see the benefits join later on in return for some work share.
Isaiah Kelly
its the British equivalent of the F-22. its going to compliment the F-35 much like how the F-22 does for the USAF.
Colton Carter
I'm assuming you meant to reply to me... >It has industry partners. Companies who clearly see the financial viability. I was talking about international partners, who will likely each have very different requirements in a fighter. Defense contractors aren't really relevant to this conversation. >The UK is using the F35 model of the UK leading the way with companies and countries who see the benefits join later on in return for some work share. And how is that going to work? Who's going to even sign up for that? We have Sweden, but they're wishy-washy, and I doubt they'll agree to hand their aerospace industry over to the UK.
Nolan Russell
It's the typical British denial. Like any nation would accept a junior role and accept whatever UK wants and is only there to send them money. After finding enough partners Tempest would need to go through non technical and technical studies like FCAS already did or does right now before any development can start.
And Sweden hasn't even joined Tempest. Saab is not part of Team Tempest.
Luis Cruz
>I was talking about international partners, who will likely each have very different requirements in a fighter. Defense contractors aren't really relevant to this conversation.
Sweden needs a fighter to replace Gripen on the same timescale as the UK needs a fighter to replace Typhoon. The requirments are already alinged.
Italy uses the same aircraft (typhoon, Tornado, F35) as the UK and they need to replace typhoon too.
If you build it they will come.
trying to hash out an aircraft with competing requirements is a proven recepie for delay and failure in Europe.
Kevin Allen
>the UK imagine they have the position and geopolitical weight to attract junior partners the way the US can.
Adorable
Grayson Anderson
>please based Empire, accept my 40 billions so you can do whatever you want with it
Says no Sweden ever
Levi Scott
>i am just going to write my fanfiction strawmen of things that the British aren't doing
Nathan Wood
>france builds a fighter >Jow Forums doesn't care >sweden builds a fighter >Jow Forums doesn't car >uk builds a fighter >REEEEEEEEE u-cucks are cucks mohammed jooz loisense am i rite?
Landon Young
I love how two weeks ago we had buttblasted euros saying Sweden would never join. Now that they have it's just more seething jealousy.
Europe has never collaborated on a successful aircraft project without the UK.
Dominic Gray
Lmao
Dominic Davis
>Europe has never collaborated on a successful project
fixed
Henry Rogers
Sweden hasn't joined.
Wyatt Flores
you can keep saying that as much as you like.
But Sweden has thrown it's lot in with the UK and there's literally nothing you can do about it.
Logan Gutierrez
>Sweden needs a fighter to replace Gripen on the same timescale as the UK needs a fighter to replace Typhoon. The requirments are already alinged. And Sweden has a large aerospace industry that can develop fighter aircraft and are keen on export. Why would they just give that up for the Tempest? They already have a future fighter program of their own- The Flygsystem 2020. >Italy uses the same aircraft (typhoon, Tornado, F35) as the UK and they need to replace typhoon too. Italy does not have the money to develop a new fighter. Nor have they shown any interest really, outside of the UK division of Leonardo being involved in the industry consortium.
In any case, even if either of these nations join, there still wouldn't be enough money to develop Tempest; both of these nations have relatively small fleets that need to be replaced. A much larger partner would have to be found.
I know that facts and Bongs aren't the best friends
Liam Edwards
>And Sweden has a large aerospace industry t
They really don't.
> that can develop fighter aircraft and are keen on export
Sweden have some of the most restrictive arms export laws on the planet. Gripen was also a UK design.
>Italy does not have the money to develop a new fighter.
Good thing they only have to contribute rather than fund the whole thing.
>Nor have they shown any interest really
Your head is in the sand. italian industry has been screaming for Italy to join for a year.
>In any case, even if either of these nations join, there still wouldn't be enough money to develop Tempest; both of these nations have relatively small fleets that need to be replaced. A much larger partner would have to be found.
I don't think you have a clue about the figures you are talking about.
The UK is perfectly happy to pump billions into a project if it means putting continentals in their place.
Wyatt Gray
Sweden and UK just signed a MOU to check if both countries' requirements for a next generation platform can lead to a joint development.
William Myers
France and UK had several MOUs which didn't lead to anything.
That one news report two weeks ago was quite misleading.
Elijah Reyes
They should maybe put some of that money to have more than a handful tanks or ships to actually be able to protect their own waters.
Ordering more than 48 F-35B would be a good start too.
Isaiah Parker
RENT FREE
Jordan Campbell
Tempest needs Sweden, Italy and Japan to be sustainable.
And none of those nations will want a junior role.
Ayden Carter
>Sweden have some of the most restrictive arms export laws on the planet. Gripen was also a UK design. That doesn't change that they're keen on exporting it. And I'm going to need a citation on the UK designing it. >Good thing they only have to contribute rather than fund the whole thing. Given how stretched the UK defense budget is, they'd need to fund quite a lot. And really, what does joining Tempest offer them, as opposed to joining the FCAS project that's farther along? >Your head is in the sand. italian industry has been screaming for Italy to join for a year. Who has been "screaming" for Italy to join other than that think tank that wanted the two projects merged. >The UK is perfectly happy to pump billions into a project if it means putting continentals in their place. Oh, I'm sure. That's why the UK has transferred their entire land defense industry over to Germany.
Sebastian Phillips
Not gonna happen.
Chase Robinson
UK is actually rather butthurt that France went with Germany for FCAS.
Jayden White
>That doesn't change that they're keen on exporting it.
To fewer countries.
>And I'm going to need a citation on the UK designing it.
P.96 and P.106 were designed before Gripen and were brought back to life by BAE when SAAB and Sweden paid BAE for design work.
Gripen was a design partnership for a long time until BAE sold it's shares once Typhoon entered the market as they couldn't split resources between two competing products.
Literally everything you're saying has the dumbest anti UK slant. if you can't have a discussion without your preconceptions and feelings getting hurt then you really shouldn't be posting.
Except it was the UK that told France it wasn't going to continue with FCAS (or the french variety of it) and it was the UK that decided not to contribute further funding.
The UK even stopped replying to France's messages
>I never had a clear answer to that question," he says. "I have tried to meet with the Ministry of Defence, with the secretary of state and the people in charge of procurement in Whitehall.
They were literally ghosted at the same time Tempest was already underway in secret.
Noah Sanders
>To fewer countries. If that was truly the case, then they would not have sold Gripens to Thailand. >P.96 and P.106 were designed before Gripen and were brought back to life by BAE when SAAB and Sweden paid BAE for design work. That isn't what I asked for, I asked for a source. >Literally everything you're saying has the dumbest anti UK slant If you want to get angry that's okay. Your lack of any rebuttal is rather telling though.
The basic design of the Gripen was designed by Volvo, Ericsson and FV Aerotech in 1981 - long before BAe decided to go with the German delta canard TKF-90 design.
Jaxon Clark
i've given you all you need, i'm not here to spoon feed you. If you didn't know that Gripen was a UK design then you're really not qualified to take part in a discussion on European combat aircraft.
Ethan Rodriguez
>butthurt reaction >can't even read the article
Christopher King
Not really. What you've done is skirt around my arguments and now are attempting to change the subject to something unrelated (what you claim to be British influence towards the gripen design without any source), it is really rather pathetic. But if you want to live in your delusions that's fine by me- I'm sure those partner nations will start lining up any minute now.
Alexander Richardson
That article is great. The British side tried to twist it as if Sweden and Tempest was a clear thing. While Sweden actually only want to look a little bit and maybe get something out for Gripen first
Jason Sanders
>possible emerge 2021
That means that if there is no other delay by other nations. Tempest would be in 2021 there where France and Germany already are.
Joseph Scott
I think that's just an attempt to scrounge up military funding for the SABRE hypersonic-dual mode thing for that SSTO space plane that britain had started funded with the eye towards it becoming the ESA's main light launch vehicle... back before all this brexit shit, obviously.
With RR not delievering turboshaft engines to Turkey anymore I guess Turkey as potential Tempest partner is dead.
Ethan Perry
So how far along are the mutts in all this? We have maybe two 6th gen programs on the continent yet they've got two programs for one military. How many years beyond us are they?
Hey, there's a chance of it coming to ace combat so that'll be pretty neat
Hunter Gray
>European collaborative projects
Aren't these things always catastrophes of French seething, German miserliness, Italian uselessness and British meddling?
Bentley Ward
It's why the arabfighter typhoon looks like an ugly 50s era delta-wing tragedy
Daniel Ward
no
Europe just developed the best WVR and BVR missiles.
Colton Harris
>Wahabi and Bismilahi visual range missiles
the PL-15 is in all aspects better than anything that some pathetic european conglomerate can develop.
Ryder Thomas
When the killzone is larger than the CEP, aiming becomes optional.
Ayden Morris
>So how far along are the mutts in all this? For the Navy at least, the F/A-XX was being planned as far back as pre-2008. If we take the ATF and JSF programs as past examples expect to see a prototype fly-off in the early-mid 2020's.
It's more like >Stop asking logical questions about the viability of the Tempest! British are so oppressed on this board
Adrian Diaz
okay
Samuel Turner
Brexit in a nutshell
Colton Walker
Only wings gonna become the greatest fad.
Benjamin Taylor
Seems like a vanity project to me. The Italians are likely to drop out (with a bunch of hand-wringing and excuses) after the inevitably predictable conclusion of the whole Brexit fuckfest come November. Salvini is a loudmouthed cunt, but he's aware that Italy needs to remain in the economical good graces of France and Germany. The only people who would be left hanging in such a case are the Swedish. Due to their doctrine, twinjets are a nonstarter for the Flygvapnet, and the FCAS is firmly a twinjet design. They need a monojet design, and right now there isn't one that would be also politically palatable.
Dominic Moore
>>no other potential partners Italy may join. >Can we expect that anything will actually happen with the Tempest or will it and several things slowly get killed by the next White Paper in 2020? It will be made even if it is shit or hugely over buget or both.
Xavier Anderson
>based on a 5th gen design
Trash
Connor Lee
Why don't they just join FCAS or ask America?
Gabriel Perry
National ego.
Jonathan Stewart
>Why don't they just join FCAS You don't really know the bongs well, do you.... >or ask America Why bother involving the Brits in PCA/NGAD?
Liam King
>just join FCAS It'll be a fifth gen
>or ask America? They wouldnt be allowed to join.
John Russell
>It'll be a fifth gen *sixth gen
Cooper Fisher
Look at the design requirements. It's a 5.5 gen at the max.
Michael Lee
Is it an AI spamming these threads of
>IMAGE WITH WHITE BACKGROUND >RANDOM QUESTION
???
Julian Young
Because UK is world leading or something like that
