Here's the quick rundown:
>Wood panelling all over the walls and floor, with paper screens over all the windows
>It being an office means copious amounts of paper material everywhere
>No sprinkler system in place
>Spiral staircase was not separated from rest of the floor by fire doors
>Spiral staircase just acted like a chimney and helped the fire spread
>Apparently these spiral staircases should have a shutter in Japan, but was deemed "unnecessary" for the building
>The office had passed 14 previous fire checks or whatever
>Office had an ID security system in place, but they had disabled it because they had visitors on the day which is why the suspect got in
>The suspect literally walked through the front door with a bucket containing gasoline on a cart and was never stopped
>They managed to somehow fit 71 employees in a 3 floor office yet had virtually no fire safety in place
How would you save the day in this situation Jow Forums?
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Meaning it met Japan's laughably low standards of fire safety. How I would have saved the day was writing fire codes worthy of a First World nation after the Sennichi and Taiyo department store fires 45 years ago.
1) Somebody--preferably a trained security guard--should have been attending the door if the ID card system was deactivated. They don't even have to be armed.
2) If an employee had a CCW it's possible, but unlikely they could have stopped the arsonist before he lit the fire. Of course that's illegal Japanese law.
3) better fire codes are the obvious one. Extinguishers, sprinklers, exits.
4) employees should have practiced drills regarding not only fire evacuation, but also dealing with a hostile individual.
sprinkler system is supposed to fix such things
Oh, and I forgot one:
5) the company had received death threats a few days before the incident. That should have been taken more seriously. Police involved, defensive plan discussed with employees, security guard.
You’d really think they’d have pretty good fire safety standards after the whole kerfuffle in the 40’s.
It's not just the 40's, they've had horrible fires many many times throughout history. For some dumbass reason they keep making the same mistake over and over.
If they had a well-armed receptionist, the end result would have been one dead NEET and ten gallons of free gas
>Runs in with open fuel container. Read: A fucking bucket
>"YOU DIE!!!"
>Guard shoots NEET
>Gunshot ignites gasoline vapor
>Building burns down
Japs seem to think that all they need is space between buildings to serve as a fire break.
>"The lives of those inside are unimportant onii-chan."
>For some dumbass reason they keep making the same mistake over and over.
Japanese are laughably retarded. They're very good at certain fields but generally unintelligent because thinking differently will risk bringing great shame on someone else
So most of them died in a crush trying to get to the rooftop?
>Gunshot ignites gasoline vapor
t. noguns and nogas
I posted this a couple days ago, but it's worth a repost here:
One reason why the KyoAni fire was so deadly was that the Japanese are fucking retarded with fire safety. True story: When I was on JET, the second story in my school had a glass door that simply opened into nothing: a two-story drop onto gravel. Finally curiosity got the best of me, and I asked what it was for. I was told it was a fire exit. But, I protested, it was always locked. I was told that the vice-principal had the key, and that he'd unlock it if there was ever a need. But, I protested, his desk was on the first floor, in a different wing of the building. I got that look the Japanese give you if you start complaining too much about the way they do things - it was the same look I got when I asked why my local bank closed their ATMs at night and on the weekends (this was 20 years ago, in a small town).
Unable to restrain myself, I asked why at least there wasn't something more pleasant to jump onto underneath the door. I mean, gravel would kinda suck, especially for girls in uniform skirts if they ended up landing on their feet and falling forward onto their knees. I was told there was a mat that could be put down there over the gravel if need be. Where was it? In a utility shed about 200 feet away. Yes, locked, but the vice-principal had the key.
At which point I just gave up and accepted it.
The article I read said he filled two cans of gas, it was not an open container.
Second, it's highly unlikely that a gunshot would ignite the gas. Technically possible, very unlikely.
The wierd thing is that for other sorts of disaster stuff they are amazing. Their G-CANS flood control system is nothing short of mindboggling. They are among the world leaders in Earthquake safety. But for some reason they suck at fire.
Another user joked in a previous thread that it would be unfair if all their elemental resistances were so good.
Please bring a five gallon bucket of gasoline with you to the range.
>The article I read said he filled two cans of gas, it was not an open container.
Me read op
Demolition Ranch demonstrated shooting a pistol literally *submurged* in a 5-gallon bucket of gasonine on Youtube. Gun went boom. No fire.
It's gasoline vapor that ignites, not gasoline. The fire them creates more vapor faster
>Things that do not readily ignite: Liquid Gasoline
>Things that do readily ignite: Vaporized Gasoline
>Things that vaporize at room temperature: Liquid Gasoline
Please fire a gun above a bucket of gasoline and post burns.
>a fucking pistol going off submerged in gasoline doesn't vaporize any of the gas
>71 employees in a 3 story office
they live so close together a sword is a totally viable self defense option.
they have a scenario like this in Ajin demi human where terrorists just collapse a taller building without security onto a shorter building with proper security. so its not like they hadn't thought of it.
It's possible for a gunshot to ignite flammable vapors but it's not all that likley, the blast tends to happen so fast that the fire can't spread. It's sort of like how they can use dynamite to put out a raging oil well fire despite there being oil mist everywhere.
> Lat: 34.9330474
> Long: 135.7929626
Doesn't seem like a very large building, I'm shocked so many people weren't able to get out ... or at least jump.
There was only one door, it was right near the stairs, and that's where the fire started.
People would have had to run through the worst part of the fire to escape thru the door or to reach the stairs.
Now why people didn't bust the windows and jump out I have no idea. a 1 or 2 story fall is no joke but it's better than burning to death.
That's precisely my thinking
t. high school drop out
Its a pretty small building. Note the spiral staircase of death in the top pic, and the "smoke barrier" mandated by the City of Kyoto to meet fire codes
>English assistant teacher knows it better
Playing that stereotype straight
>there's no air present when a big fucking explosion blasts a visible spray of gasoline all over the place
Fire safety codes aren't designed to protect against gasoline fire.
Gasoline smoke is so heavy and toxic that only taking a few breaths will take you out. One only needs to check out gasoline fires on youtube how badly gasoline fires can end - there is a reason why you get told never start a grill or camp fire with gasoline.
>fire starts on first floor
>no fire escapes
>unbreakable Windows, in case someone tries suicide
>can't go down have to go up
>try to get onto roof
>door locked, in case someone tries suicide
>can't go down, can't go up
>die from smoke inhalation
Whole thing was BS.
Yeah, I knew enough to know that a locked door on the second floor with no easy way to get down didn’t really make for an effective fire exit.
Sprinklers could have helped by tamping down smoke and making all that wood and paper less flammable. ABC extinguishers would have been very handy. Windows not covered by paper screens sure would have helped, as would have fire doors, a fire escape, and not allowing that spiral staircase that turned into a chimney. Not allowing piles of flammable paper, celluloid, and paint to be stacked around probably would have been a good idea. And mandating fire drills every so often would likely have done a lot of good, too.
> How would you save the day in this situation Jow Forums?
Burn down the city (again) and tell them to get their fire codes right this time.
>there is a reason why you get told never start a grill or camp fire with gasoline.
There is, but it's not the one you think it is.
Gasoline is extremely volatile, so if you try to use it to light a grill there's a really good chance it will flare up and burn you when you reach over with the lighter or toss a match. Gasoline smoke is not a concern for a small amount of gas in an outdoor setting, and the smoke from lighter fluid or kerosene is just as dangerous. That rule is about flare-ups and burning yourself, not anything to do with smoke.
You're otherwise correct.
The windows were not unbreakable
The door to the roof was not locked
Sprinklers wouldn't have saved everybody, I think. But they sure as hell would have helped reduce the fire's spread. They wouldn't put out the burning gas but they certainly would stop the fire from spreading to other areas of the building where the was no gasoline.
>no sprinklers
>one entrance
>spiral staircase
>no extinguishers
arsonist or not, that place was a serious fire hazard
No, there isn't you dumb nigger, where do you think the air would come from? The temporary cavity would be filled with burning gunpowder, gasoline fumes, and no oxygen. This temporary cavity collapses, extinguishing whatever fire remains. This occurs before oxygen can enter the bucket.
ironically, shoot the glass
There are enough cases of people killing themselves with using a grill in-door.
People those days aren't aware how toxic smoke is because we aren't using open fires on a daily base anymore.
And now add gasoline fire which will spread fast as fuck with its smoke being toxic as fuck.
Wood as building material isn't really a problem . In fact you can actually reach a high fire protection class for smaller and medium buildings with wood as with many other materials.
The main problem in this case was that the building wasn't large enough to provide two isolated escape routes.
They couldn’t break the glass because it was suicide, meaning it wouldn’t break.
I think its just an issue of limited space and using using a lot of wood based materials to deal with earthquakes. Everything is so cramped and flammable.
>wood
>flammable
Yes, wood is flammable, As is paper, celluloid, and paint, which there was lots of in that office. Piles of, just sitting around, as is typical in Japanese offices. Decent fire codes wouldn’t allow it in an occupied office.
One of the reasons the Ghost Ship in Oakland went up like a tinderbox was that it was full of wood sculptures and furniture, paint, paper... all strewn around, much like the KyoAni offices. At least here it was illegal, even if the laws were ignored.
>How would you save the day in this situation Jow Forums?
Aggressive interior fire attack, ladder to the roof, force entry to the top floor while placing additional ladders to the first and second floor. Proper fire prevention and better building codes could have helped, but given the fact it's too late for that, what I posted above would be the best option.
>Wood as building material isn't really a problem
It most definitely is a problem but not in this case. Modern "wood" is part of the reason why you have 5 minutes before your house is fully engulfed in flames. Modern construction uses too much glue to hold the wood together and instead of using straight lumber which lasts longer in a fire.
Wood isn't a problem for fire protection. in fact wood as structural element has massive adventage over steel for smaller buildings - because steel would collapse fast while wood would first slowly burn around first.
>in fact wood as structural element has massive adventage over steel for smaller buildings - because steel would collapse fast while wood would first slowly burn around first
This is true if the structural elements aren't made of OSB and other stupid shit that people use to cut costs.
Wood after getting ignited forms a protective layer around itself.
That's the most retarded thing I have ever heard. No it does not. That's not how combustion works. Modern wood filled with glue and and structural elements made with OSB burns hotter and puts off more toxic smoke, and also loses it's structural integrity very fast compared to traditional lumber used to build homes. Combine that with how quick gusset plates fail and you have a structure that loses structural integrity after 5-10 minutes of fire, as opposed to 30 minutes 40 years ago.
>What is char layer for 500?
Uncharred wood remains at moderate temperatures even in long fires due to the high heat losses from the char layer
Char layer does not come into play in most structure fires as the majority of buildings do not use heavy timber but rather light construction materials that fail incredibly fast and lose their structural integrity in minutes.
Let me rephrase, char layer does not positively effect the outcomes from most residential and commercial fires to the point it can be even considered for structural integrity. Most structural integrity loss in a fire results from the failure of gusset plates or lightweight trusses used to build the structure.
Dude, shit the fuxk up you retard.
Americans trying to tell the world something about functional building codes.
So yeah the architect of the building should be arrested and punished for these fire code violations. They did it with that night station club fire and I'm sure the past century with other notable fires.
in Japan?
In Japan, evacuation stairs are required on the 5th floor and above 2nd basement floors of buildings, and special evacuation stairs are required on the 15th floor and above 3rd basement floors In addition, it is required to install stairs (direct stairs) leading to the ground directly on the third floor and above of the building that meets the regulations such as floor area
No in the US but that should be a standard practice worldwide. In the early 1900's they could've used the excuse that exit doors opening inwards was common before fires. Not having modern fire safety regulations should result in the architect/owner of the building being punished as well.
>all these armchair structural engineers
Guys, you know that no one planned on a demented NEET throwing literally 15 gallons of gas at the entrance of the building and lighting it on fire, right?
>muh papers
Every office has papers, it's not like they were strewn around the floor like some stupid stock exchange
>muh wood
Wood itself actually isn't the main problem, it's all the chemically treated plastics and laminates that are chock full of petroleum-based stuff that the smoke from that can kill an elephant, much less a little Japanese person in less than a minute.
>muh guards
They had a security system, it's just the guy struck the day it was offline because of media and bigwig guests coming over. Whether the guy knew that or it was the most unlucky combination in history, we won't know till the fucker wakes up from his coma.
And yeah, everyone basically got trapped in the upper floors and probably got overcome by the fumes so quickly, it wouldn't have mattered with half of this training or planning you guys are saying.
The door wasn't locked, it must have been jammed or the people got overcome by the fumes before they were able to get to the top.
The windows were breakable, and open-able, apparently. Reports are a few females jumped from the 2nd story, though it's unknown whether they survived or not still.
This, this, this.
We can do all the what-if's we want, but at the end of the day, 34+ people are dead and a company destroyed. We can only hope that Japan takes a serious look at their fire codes now, but it's possible nothing serious will come from this (like most tragedies).
The elephant in the room is: giving every animator a handgun.
How Jow Forums thinks every building should be built.
>Guys, you know that no one planned on a demented NEET throwing literally 15 gallons of gas at the entrance of the building and lighting it on fire, right?
Literally every emergency measure exists to save you if something you didn't plan for happens. That's why they call them emergency measures and not normal shit measures. Nobody plans to crash their car, either, but we still make car companies install seatbelts and even make people wear them under penalty of law.
>Every office has papers, it's not like they were strewn around the floor like some stupid stock exchange
There were piled-high stacks of them everywhere, which you don't find in offices in America - partly because we're not stuck in 1985 technologically, and partly because no fire marshal here would let it happen.
>Wood itself actually isn't the main problem, it's all the chemically treated plastics and laminates that are chock full of petroleum-based stuff that the smoke from that can kill an elephant, much less a little Japanese person in less than a minute.
So your point is that all wood isn't the problem, just the wood they actually had? Okay, I guess.
>it wouldn't have mattered with half of this training or planning you guys are saying.
Bullshit. There's a reason schools are required to have fire drills.
it's like complaining to a car company why the windows aren't bulletproof because someone got shot through a car window.
There is a reason why fire protection code isn't designed around the worst possible case but around a reasonable risk analysis.
Structural analysis is the same.
And an animation studio with a three floor building is generally not rated as possible target for a terrorist attack.
Well, the structural integrity of the building was never in danger, that means the fire safety code worked here.
The problem was the attack with gasoline and the highly toxic smoke.
>that first statement
Wew, man. Do you plan for a swarm of locusts to invade your home? Do you prepare for a meteor strike?
That's how crazy you sound. This isn't a normal "preventative" incident, this is totally a unplanned tragedy. What about you? What if someone walked into your place of work and just started spraying a liquid around? How would you react? I'm gonna be 9/10 you would just sit there and wonder what the fuck he was doing or maybe start feeling a little anxious.
>implying modern offices in the US don't have stacks of paper in various areas
While we are moving towards a more digital workplace, there's still tons of paper around an office building.
The wood thing is some studies done to show that fires that started in modern buildings usually flash over very quickly due to the building materials we use today like synthetic fibers and treated woods. Older houses would take a while longer for those fires to start.
This video is kinda what I was trying to say:
youtube.com
Yeah, fire drills are nice for if a simple little fire starts in a wastebasket in one room of the building, but when the entire floor is engulfed so rapidly that people become entrapped, that training goes out the window fast. They had an exit on the first floor, but guess what was there? 40L of burning and smoking gasoline.
The windows? Some of them did jump out of them, but many probably overwhelmed so quickly that they had no time to react.
The roof? With what we know, a ton of them tried that, but for some reason the door was jammed. My sad guess is that one or two of them who got near the top of the stairs collapsed and caused a backup, causing people to panic more and eventually pass out as well as they tried to push upwards.
Bleh, it makes me depressed again just typing all this. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, but I'm just using what information I've learned to try to figure out why all of this had to happen.
>Do you plan for a swarm of locusts to invade your home? Do you prepare for a meteor strike?
"I don't understand what probability is": The Post.
You can't possibly completely prepare for every possibility, but you're a fool to not prepare for the more likely ones. There's a reason why every civilized country has strict, strongly-enforced fire safety codes but not strict, strongly-enforced locust or meteor codes.
>While we are moving towards a more digital workplace, there's still tons of paper around an office building.
Not as much as in a typical Japanese office, or especially at KyoAni
>Yeah, fire drills are nice for if a simple little fire starts in a wastebasket in one room of the building, but when the entire floor is engulfed so rapidly that people become entrapped, that training goes out the window fast.
You literally have things completely backwards. The worse things get, the *more* important good training becomes. Everything from air crash investigations to military experience in combat shows us that this is true. No, good training won't save you from *every* bad situation. But it shifts the odds way more in your favor.
A terror attack is likely
Uncontrolled burning of gasoline produces large quantities of soot and carbon monoxide.
You are not designing a mere office building around a gasoline attack.
>Uncontrolled burning of gasoline produces large quantities of soot and carbon monoxide.
As opposed to which building fires that don’t?
Stop trying to excuse Japan’s third world-tier fire safety standards.
you forgot a tiny tiny tiny small detail
while nobody really cared at some point you see the firefighters removing the cannister from the arsonist
if you look closely it was a preheated cannister that is only used for heavy fuel (it doesnt open otherwise unless its heated to a certain temp)
if he actually poured heavy fuel on that building nothing would have saved them no matter where they were
if they were dead from the fire they most surely would have boiled out from the heat
and those that managed to survive would have died from the smoke itself
and the few lucky ones that made it to the roof they most surely would have died from the so2 that comes out of that kind of fuel
>As opposed to which building fires that don’t?
like all other not fuel caused fires
>how would you save the day
people still don't seem to realize that smoke is the only real danger in a fire. You can see the problem in every thread talking about the disaster. Pro tip: going to the roof is suicidal. 20 people were found who had tried going up instead of out.
A 1000°C hot fire cutting your way sounds dangerous too.
it's obvious that the most victims were on the third floor.
All other ways were cut and first and second floor were engulfed in flames and smoke.
Is there any info how long he spent setting it up on the ground floor? I saw some posts saying he had a knife as well or something? A lot of these type of things could be stopped by anyone just fighting back at first, in places with low amounts of violent crime most people just freeze when someone walks in and starts preparing an attack.
>but it's possible nothing serious will come from this
Nothing will because it will cause too many people to lose face
So wood isnt the problem, shitloads of plastics and glue is. And retards that dont protect steel connections.