Writefag here, working on a fairly heavily Jow Forums setting based in the 19th century, inspired by the voortrekkers, the British in the middle East, oregan trail, and that kind of caravan/wagon train aesthetic
Would the airguns of the period be viable for use for hunting and warfare if gunpowder arms were unavailable? I understand that they were a lot more expensive and harder to manufacture - would that be the only limiting factor?
Other urls found in this thread:
m.youtube.com
youtu.be
twitter.com
The airguns of the period were really, really expensive.
Plenty powerful enough to hunt and fight with but the air canisters for them only held enough air for like 20 shots, and to pump up the canister to full pressure you needed to connect it to a really shitty inefficient hand pump that took like 2 or 3 THOUSAND pumps to fill the canister.
There were some pretty advanced firearms by the mid 19th century that were much faster to load and shoot than traditional muzzle loaders. There were breech loaders, paper cartridge guns, needle guns, and even pinfire guns.
For most purposes those were more practical than the air guns, and they were much more powerful.
>Would the airguns of the period be viable for use for hunting and warfare if gunpowder arms were unavailable?
the girandoni was viable in an era when black owder rifles were available. so yes.
First poster covered it pretty well. Airguns were plenty good enough to hunt with, but not as powerful as a powder firearm, dreadfully expensive, and a pain in the ass to pump up.
Also keep in mind that in many places (mainly Europe) they were looked down upon as ungentlemanly. A gentleman would use a proper hunting gun (rifle or shotgun depending on the game), while the air gun was the silent weapon of the sneaky poacher.
Thanks, makes sense - in a similar vein then, what weapons do you think would we have advanced to if we didn't have gunpowder? What alternative propellants would we have used, if at all?
full automatic crossbows
[Van Helsing intensifies]
Watch m.youtube.com
>them only held enough air for like 20 shots, and to pump up the canister to full pressure you needed to connect it to a really shitty inefficient hand pump
you could easily carry additional canister and it's hard to imagine how you would need more than 20 shots in early XIX century trail firefight. A guy with 4 loaded Colt revolvers can carry only as much and you can double his capacity with small ball in your sidebag.
I've seen FW's video on it already - that was what piqued my interest in it originally. I thought it might be interesting as a frontier weapon, if gunpowder was scarce, since you could carry shot and refill it whenever you needed. I understand that the cost would be the more prohibitive factor though, like others mentioned.
I was also thinking it'd be interesting to have the types of firearm be opposed - one was used more in the frontier and was associated with the trekkers that pursued more nomadic/ colonialist lives, while the powder rifle would be linked more to the big cities - I understand the difficulty with that would be the durability of the air guns, unless I'm mistaken?
i just saw Ian review on of these. pretty cool.
He also reviewed a *repeating flint lock* pistol
Yeah. The Giradoni air rifle was used by the Austrian army for decades. Lewis and Clark carried one. Seems like a great system to me, especially in large scale combat, make more balls and rifles with that you save in powder. Most of all, no smoke, so you can fire with full accuracy.
Thanks for all the replies everyone! Cool to know that there is so much diversity in answer - if it would help with discussion, could we narrow down the time period to early 19th century?
Here's a historical tidbit that you might run with:
Lewis & Clark brought an air rifle with them on their famous expedition. They'd often demonstrate it to the various native tribes they encountered. The tribes, being ignorant of how firearms worked, assumed that every gun that the men carried were capable of discharging multiple shots without reloading just like the air gun was, and thus L&C could make their group appear to be much better armed than it actually was.
The high cost would mean that air guns would never have been used en masse, but I'm sure you could write one into an old west story pretty easily. It could have belonged to someone from a wealthy family going exploring, it could have belonged to a rich cattle baron or oil tycoon. Perhaps it was thrown into the pot in a high-stakes card game, etc.
I thought it was Holy Roman Empire, pre Hapsburg Family tree becoming a ladder?
Thanks for the idea! Basically, the main character receives an air guns as a gift from his father - it was supposed to be a strange, weird thing, but in my hand I needed to justify its existence in the world. I'll probably have them as interesting oddities that find their way around.
Here's the passage where I first introduce it - thanks to everyone for the help!
I would like to being something like the giradoni into the story, but this one is based on the outside lock in link below. I'm pretty sure that it's not super historically accurate, but I like how it reminds me of the Burnside as this weird, thin gun
“Girl.” His low voice rumbled in her ears. “Sit.” She sat beside him, waiting patiently as he finished scribbling something in the book before setting it down beside him. He picked up the package, paused for a pensive moment, then handed it to her carefully. It was heavy for the fourteen year old. Gloriosa pulled at the cord tying the canvas together, unveiling what looked like a long, thin rifle. A metal club-like cylinder wrapped in brown leather made up the stock. It connected to the receiver at a sharp angle, and had a long, thin, barrel with no handguard beneath it.
“It looks different than yours,” Gloriosa was entranced by the thing. “I’ve never seen you use this one.”
“I never have. It was waiting for you to be ready,” Father said simply. “These are very rare here in Away, and rare still back at Home. They require a skilled hand to make, and cost much in man-hours and coin. Treat it well.” Gloriosa had never been Home before. Father had told her it had been a place of war and conflict even before she was born. The Wars made it hard to get powder - she had heard people complain about it before. “It is a fit introduction for a fourteen year old - it will not waste our supplies if your aim errs." He tapped the cylinder with his finger, and it rang hollow. "The book and tools you will need to prepare it are by your things. Have it ready by sunrise. You are not to fire it until morning. Do you understand?”
As if any poacher could afford to use an airgun.
They would use traps, bows or just go loud with musket if they could risk it.
>paused for a pensive moment,
Why use the word pensive? You just come across as a writefag trying to show off their fancy vocabulary.
'had a pensive pause' or just paused for a moment would be fine
I mean you're not wrong, I do sounds like an asshole now that I'm reading it
Thanks, fixed
your girl has stupid name. also if no powder is available, steam powered cannons would be in option
Name is from the Latin name of the fire Lily - just thought it was pretty and would be a nice nod to rhodesia's national flower, especially when I go heavier with the south African/voortrekkers influences
Probably air, followed by steam weapons for larger crew-served weapons that would launch chemical projectiles like thermite, or possibly dynamite if nitroglycerin explosives are still a thing, which roughly the same effects as conventional artillery. Machine guns would eventually happen, but probably decades later then they did IRL because the mechanics for a working steam-powered machine gun would be a magnitude more complex, closer to a modern motorized gatling in construction.
Eventually, science might advance enough that nitroglycerin-based compounds might become a practical replacement in certain applications, but by then air and steam weapons would be well entrenched in doctrinal use and logistics.
One thing's for sure: wars would be a lot quieter affairs.
>As if any poacher could afford to use an airgun.
You'd be surprised.
The book Firearms Curiosa shows some very fancy bespoke poacher's guns made by high-end London gunsmiths. It confused the fuck out of me the first time I read about it too. But it is a thing.
it's just i hate names with L coming after consonant, hearing someones names like that sounds like he/she is gargling with a dick, stupid L's