Hanomag or M3?
Which was best halftrack?
Nicholas Reyes
Aaron Lewis
depends
Joseph Martin
Different roles?
Benjamin Wood
different construction philosophies, but the germans were more aggressive with their half-tracks and used them as fighting vehicles, whereas the americans viewed them generally as simply transport
Colton Ross
The Germans liked the M3, they captured a lot in North Africa.
Sebastian Fisher
The might SOMUA MCG wins hands down
Jaxon Wright
all half-tracks are death traps
Landon Edwards
vice versa as well re: captured sd.kfz.251
Gavin Diaz
Have any cites or stories sempai?
Charles Rodriguez
I think it goes without saying that the Germ*ns in particular would have captured every wheeled vehicle they could get their hands on, due to their general lack of transport vehicles for troops and logistics.
Thomas Cooper
cant even censor properly, r*ddit refugee detected
Bentley Thomas
Shut it white b*y.
Easton Ross
>In comparison to the most common Allied half-track of the war, the M3 Half-track, the Sd.Kfz. 251 was slower and lower-powered, but with thicker, sloping side armour provided better protection
as general purpose vehicle for every role, the M3 is better
for use as an APC, hanomag
i will say the 360deg M2 browning would have been more useful than the 2 180deg MG42 mounts on the hanomag
Noah Reed
The gun shield on the german vehicles though.
Ryan Bailey
I assume the longer track on the German apc would help it better get around in mud/winter conditions in east while the M3 was a great and chill vehicle for a vacation across france.
Ethan Hill
the front wheels were unpowered on the german half-tracks, though, which hampered steering etc in the mud
Sebastian Miller
der neger fears the bavarian
Kayden Rogers
Correct me if I am wrong, but the hanomag could demount the MGs without tools whereas the M3 could not
Alexander Price
counterpoint: the german mounted MGs were man portable to a degree that mounted M2s are not
Leo Taylor
You're corrected.
Demounting an M2 is just pulling out 2 pins.
However, using it required mounting it into the tripod with abother 2 pins, whereas the MG34/42s could be used off their bipods or mounted to a tripod
Angel Young
Ease of "taking the guns off and running away" isn't usually a design feature in planning an armoured vehicle, it's just circumstantial.
Lucas Wright
the squad already has an MG42, there isnt really a point to taking the gun with you
the M2 browning on the M3 seems a bit better for suppressing, since it has more range and penetration against hard cover
half tracks need to dismount troops 100m from the fighting anyways, so the extra range will be even more useful
having 2 guns in opposite directions only really seems useful in a total desperation situation, like a flanking attack or urban fighting, places that a half track is already at a disadvantage in
having 1 big gun that can fire anywhere is more efficient most of the time
Josiah Nelson
The Germans pushed it into a lot of roles by necessity
Charles Howard
>half tracks need to dismount troops 100m from the fighting anyways, so the extra range will be even more useful
How does extra range matter within 100m ?this isnt a video game
John Thompson
>the squad already has an MG42, there isnt really a point to taking the gun with you
>"no hans, dont bring another mg42, we dont need another mg instead of a k98"
or
>"gee hans, how comes the sql lets you have 2 mgs" ?
Evan Bailey
I wasn't saying that that the infantry /need/ to take the MG with them, I'm saying that the machinegun itself was designed to be carried by infantry unlike the M2, who's design lends itself more to be a vehicle mounted machinegun rather than one lugged around by infantry.
(I know it was used as an emplaced machinegun in defensive positions by infantry, but offensive use of infantry carried .50s wasn't common)
Josiah Gonzalez
We had the 42 vs 50 discussion so many times and the outcome usually is:
42 > 50 for infrantry use
42 > 50 logistically
42 = 50 for mounted vehicle use ( 42 < 50 on planes )
42 = 50 for suppression
42 < 50 for anti vehicle/emplacement use
Noah Mitchell
>(I know it was used as an emplaced machinegun in defensive positions by infantry, but offensive use of infantry carried .50s wasn't common
that's probably why they slapped the .50 on to every vehicle that could carry it
germans apparently despised the .50 cal, due to it being able to chew up infantry in cover and light vehicles with ease
Eli Reed
and the americans made special training videos because of the mg42, nobody likes getting wrekt by mgs
see
Jason Jenkins
Why is the '42 always compared to the .50? Isn't the '42's counterpart closer to the .30 or is it just shit that it just becomes irrelevant?
Liam Sullivan
because boomer muh .50 mentality and the .30 being outclassed by the 42
Wyatt Turner
the .50 is more iconic than the .30, so it ends up being prime comparison, and the MG42 was used in roles the .50 was used in, like vehicle mounts
as vehicle mounts go, the extra weight of the .50 was less of an issue, and compared to the MG42 trades fire rate for power and range
the MG42 has higher probability of hit, but the .50 can penetrate more kinds of cover, light armor, and can suppress enemies outside their range
US was also more aggressive with using mounted weapons, mostly because they had more vehicles and could afford to lose a few
Luis Foster
A challenger appears:
Kino Japanese Hino Type 1 Ho-Ha
Joseph Price
It looks aesthetic at least
Blake Morris
it really annoys me that the front wheels are completely useless on German half track, they had tank steering for the tracks for god sake
I don't understand why they didn't just removed them and went full APC
Landon Ramirez
kinda liked the Ho-Ki more desu
Michael Sanders
I think the Sd.Kfz. 251 was complicated and expensive to produce due to the interleaved wheels
the M3 was probably cheaper, simpler and thus better suited for mass production
in practice they probably performed very similar
Carter Robinson
>best half track thread
>posts full tracked truck
Dishonourabu
Ayden Parker
I liked the version with six giant bombs strapped to the side. Bet the landser were thrilled about riding into battle in that.
Angel Jackson
They didn't have tank steering per se. What they had was a system where turning the steering wheel engaged the brake on one side causing the tracks on that side to slow down (and turning the vehicle).
Brayden Sullivan
Actually trained on using it offensively in inf combat when i did my conscription. Sucked hard
Nathan Evans
>Japanese Hino Type 1 Ho-Ha
"Driver, get me closer - I want to hit them with my sword!"
Nicholas White
I didn't know the Japs had such things.
Nathaniel Barnes
>overlapping road wheels
This kills the field repair
Dominic Smith
Probably the USA. Germany always start good but ends up bad and the US basically overtook them in most departments but looks
Aiden Peterson
OUT OF MY WAY HALFTRACK FUCKING SHITS.
Daniel Price
yeah that's exactly what most tank had back in WW2
transmission going into a differential and break on each side, you turn by breaking one side, steering wheel just make it easier, the wheels where completely useless on theses
I just don't get why they didn't go full apc like the British or for a real half track like the US
Elijah Brown
This post-apocalyptic vehicle is the best half-track.
Easton Morris
this is idiotic
Blake Howard
Ok why?
Jayden Watson
The Kraut tracks were also ridiculously overcomplex.
You had a steering wheel at an odd angle for the front wheels, then steering/braking laterals for the tracks.
You sit at a weird angle, with poor back support, and horrible visibility.
They also used a stupidly complex close pitched wet-pin track, in lieu of the much simpler "rubberband" of the French or U.S.' tracks.
William Roberts
>half motorcycle, half tracked vehicle
>can’t do motorcycles things
>can’t do tracked vehicle things
>limited transport capacity
They look cool, but I don’t imagine they were practical outside of very specific situations. Why not just stick with whatever the German version of the Jeep was?
Carter Butler
overly complex with little actual use case
and furthermore why the fuck does it have this fucking front wheel ?
Kevin Butler
Modern militaries use quad bikes for the same roles.
Dominic Walker
quad bike is significantly cheaper and simpler
Aaron Jackson
Yes it is sad. Would be great if my parents could have afforded to by one surplus Kettenkrad for me when I was young.
Hard to say if it was needed for towing 2cm and 3.7cm guns, but pulling cables in places where other vehicles can't go is great.
Mason Rivera
This is like some evil droid from star wars.
Likely turned thousands of jews to dust with plasma fired from that eye.
Logan Miller
the 'krad was actually fantastic.
The 251... WHY WAS THE FRONT AXLE UNPOWERED
WHY
Austin Nelson
>I just don't get why they didn't go full apc like the British or for a real half track like the US
You're absolutely right, why the fuck would you have forward steering wheels on a half track, if the tracks themselves have differential steering and braking.
The answer is: because the Germans were fucking retards user. They had absolutely no sense about how to make a cost-effective vehicle- every good thing they made was just dumb luck and desperation. Making a half track with tank steering makes total sense if you're in a country run by delusional megalomaniacs.
Benjamin Rivera
>Making a half track with tank steering makes total sense if you're in a country run by delusional megalomaniacs.
I mean it makes sense period, it's the part where they didn't bother to bolt just one more transfer case onto it to drive the front axle as well that doesn't make any goddamn sense. It's a net loss over just making a front live axle and not controlling the rear tracks at all, like the M3.
Zachary Martin
You’re a retard
Kevin Moore
>Actually trained on using it offensively in inf combat when i did my conscription. Sucked hard
What army? and how the hell do you hand-carry a ma deuce from place to place in an assault?
Jayden Davis
Kubelwagen sucked hard compared to US Jeep too.
Owen Morgan
>then steering/braking laterals for the tracks.
nigger what are you smoking?
Brandon Perez
>You're absolutely right, why the fuck would you have forward steering wheels on a half track, if the tracks themselves have differential steering and braking.
because the tracks are fucking long and the wheels themselves would have been pretty ineffective without the differential action of the tracks
Grayson Bailey
kek
Mason Russell
I think the Krauts used up all their allotted powered-steering ration on pic related
Jordan Anderson
Practically? M3. Aesthetically? Hanomag.
Chase Turner
The M3 is a better platform operationally and strategically. It's cheaper and easier to produce as well as being more reliable and easy to maintain. However, tactically I'd take one of the German halftracks. The Germans designed their halftracks to support their infantry directly. You've got a much better armored vision slit for the driver than the Americans had, as well as an armored gun shield for the mounted machinegun, and then plenty of different variants of them that had larger weaponry to support them, such as the Stummel with the short 75 or the 251/10s with the 37mm guns that all the platoon leader tracks were supposed to have. Additionally, the interlocked road wheels should lead to lesser ground pressure.
The Americans never wanted to use their halftracks in serious combat. You were supposed to dismount a good ways away. The Germans intended for their halftracks to fight. Two different design priorities, with each edging out the other in what they're better at.
Lincoln Rivera
What made Hanomag less reliable? All I find is M3's rear idler breaking all the time in rough terrain. Sure 251 has those cursed track wheels, but they weren't anything as heavy as in tanks.
The Germans also got many other halftrack models for logistics and to carry heavy guns.
Julian Johnson
I never knew that the German halftrack could steer via braking a track. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a halftrack? I always thought they were a compromise with the tracks allowing for a heavy vehicle that's off-road capable while the front wheel steering makes it cheaper and training simpler.
Gabriel Cruz
I believe that the Kettenkrad was particularly useful on the Eastern front. There it would effectively replace motorcycles/sidecars which couldn't deal with the snow.
Blake Smith
It's because they were too stupid to just use a live front axle. Such an easy solution was beneath them.