What are the pros/cons of this concept? They seem useful, especially in asymmetrical warfare. Can be outfitted with a lot of different stuff and fulfill a lot of different roles, all while being very mobile.
Yet only Germany is using them.
What are the pros/cons of this concept? They seem useful, especially in asymmetrical warfare...
Daniel Adams
Adrian Mitchell
>out manuvers you and avoids your HEAT rounds
Nothing personal kid
Wyatt Hall
Pros:
>light
>small
>kinda versatile
>cheap
Cons:
>small
>basically no fuel
>basically no armor
All in all, I like them
Liam Howard
>gets shot with APDSFS .22
>bullet bounces around the cabin and makes the crew into swiss cheese
terrible design
Leo Wilson
>APDSFS .22
Lucas Scott
I still think they are still very good for indirect fire/AA/AT roles
Tyler James
Did you say...
INDIRECT FIRE!?
Julian Lopez
>transport two of them on a single CH-53
>transport them on pretty much anything, they weigh less than a HMMW
>can carry heavy weapons: autocannons, TOW, AA systems, mortar systems, radar
>70 km/h
As for the idea behind the concept:
>The Wiesel was developed for the German Army to meet a requirement for an air-transportable light armored vehicle for use by its airborne troops, as the infantry of the German Bundeswehr, especially airborne infantry, were considered unprepared to successfully fight enemy main battle tanks (MBT) in the 1970s. The requirements were that the vehicle should fit in common NATO transport planes and could eventually be air-dropped. It should be able to fight infantry as well as enemy tanks or aircraft.
Ayden Bailey
some of the cons can be easily fixed.
with 2019 technologies.
You can make a tankette with a front resistant to .50 cal and sides that can resist to 7,62r.
You may have to sacrifice the 20mm, but you can do way better with a package of 12.5+grenade launcher or 7,62+TOW.
The problem with this thing is that they are not made to sustain an IED, and till now nobody has ever made a tankette capable of this, but I believe it is possible considering that an iveco LMV of 7 tons can protect its crew from this threat.
Gabriel Barnes
Did you mean to post this one?
I have seen Soviet cold war tanks being fired and witnessed a 500kg bomb being dropped, the dakka factor of the Phz 2k is still notable. I've seen a demonstration of them years ago at an open day of the Bundeswehr in Germany
Isaac Barnes
They would only be used in combat anyways, and mostly inserted by air I think. IEDs are mostly a threat to patrol vehicles
Thomas Parker
All versions of the MRAPS have a large V shaped plate under them designed to bear the brunt of a blast and also deflect the blast energy making the crew far more likely to survive
Dominic Martin
Wiesel
Jordan Nguyen
Its hard with tracks because of the proximity of the hull to the ground. The V-hull works on wheeled vehicles because you can lift the hull so much higher, but with tracks its really hard to do.
Nathaniel Russell
How have tankettes not been droned yet?
They seem like the perfect vehicle for FOB outward patrols
Thomas Richardson
imagine having to ride into battle in the back of one of these, you don't know where you're going, you're completely uncomfortably cramped into the back with five of your comrades, everything is in the way of everything else, you hear the bullets plinking off outside, expecting an rpg to cause you to burn alive every second
Cameron Cruz
Sounds like an M113
Jack Moore
I've been riding in the back of BMPs and it was just like that, just not as cramped. Plus a constant smell of fuel inside, like they are constantly leaking, but most of the tankers are still permantently smoking inside. It's a memorable experience.
Dominic Martinez
It's very hard to make unmanned ground vehicles work correctly
Zachary Jones
why do so many vehicles still fall victim to shape charges when the countermeasure of outer skirting has been a known thing since the 40s?
Juan Wright
At least in a BMP you can shoot back.
The M113 I was in was a tin can. We stuck additional armor packages on but from what I understood even a large caliber MG would be able to punch through the front. Since it was designed in an era before soldiers were carrying 40kg easy, it's impossible to move inside when you're in gear.
Logan Wright
Cons? Can you not see that shit?
Evan Evans
They will make a comeback as drones 100%
Brayden Fisher
Has no sense to have such small shit crossing the land for days...better pick up a toyota.
This is the most cucked armor system ever
Ryder Miller
>This is the most cucked armor system ever
what the fuck does this even mean you fucking retard, how about you try not talking in stupid memes for once
and like many others already noted in this thread, the whole point of these things is that they fit in most aircrafts and can be dropped from air, nobody is going to drive around for days in them to reach anything.
fucking imbecile
Nathan Phillips
Frenchies have been working on this for some years
Thomas Green
In a real land war, they'd be useful. But in fighting against an insurgency, they're a bit of a liability.
The TOW & mortar variants are pretty great for support and ambushes.
The command & recon versions are useful.
The ambulance is meh...
The air defense & autocanon ones are pretty useless in my book.
They'd be useful in case of an invasion of Germany, but for use abroad against a non-uniformed enemy using guerilla tactics, they're next to useless in direct confrontations.
I guess you could use them for mortar support, but flying them in and putting up a fire base nearby, but why would you bother if you can just call in CAS, helicopters or drones for support?
Pro:
+ Airlift capable (with up to two wiesels in the largest helicopters).
+ Fast & maneuverable.
+ Keep them running with off the shelf VW, Audi or Skoda parts.
+ Diesel is super common in Europe.
+ Moral support cuz super cute.
Con:
- Shit tier armor that's afraid of anything crew served shooting AP ammo.
- Horrendous at withstanding IEDs.
- Fairly low autonomy.
- Cramped as fuck.
If they ever sell the used Wiesel 2s on the civie market, I'm going to be all over that fucking bitch tho.
Ethan Price
They can do rad stoppies too.
Jose Brooks
Jonathan Scott
>Moral support cuz super cute.
kek
>Horrendous at withstanding IEDs.
Again, IEDs aren't really a problem for them as they wouldn't be used as patrol vehicles. They would be airdropped for combat/support, they would probably not drive a long roads a lot
Jayden Nguyen
>Again, IEDs aren't really a problem for them as they wouldn't be used as patrol vehicles. They would be airdropped for combat/support, they would probably not drive a long roads a lot
They are and were literally used as patrol vehicles together with Dingo II's in Afghanistan.
Carter Diaz
This camo is cool, what is it called?
Adrian Walker
Jonathan Morales
I totally agree it is a bad idea, but it appears german high command thought differently.
Joshua Cruz
Oh, ok. I thought I remembered reading something about the Wiesel being pulled out of Afghanistan by Germany because they just didn't find real use for them, but I think I mixed that up with the Leopard 2
Angel Bell
>Oh, ok. I thought I remembered reading something about the Wiesel being pulled out of Afghanistan by Germany because they just didn't find real use for them, but I think I mixed that up with the Leopard 2
I didn't know there had been Leo2s in A-stan.
But yeah, other than looking scary outside some high security areas, I don't see much use for Leo2s in Afghanistan either.
I do have to admit I'm also not 100% sure the Wiesels are still used in A-stan. My info is rather outdated. But at some point they were extensively used.
Zachary Fisher
I wouldn't want to be in the back as the whole thing slams to the ground
Luke Gutierrez
Are tank drivers in the army specialized on one sort of tank/apc?
Do you think a Wiesel driver would get bullied by Leopard 2 drivers?
William Ortiz
But I have heard of Chinese quantum tank drones
Lucas Thompson
>at least BMP can shoot back
But desu.... the VADs tho
Imagine a swarm of cyoot babby brrrrts sweeping across the landscape
David Martin
why not make a really long range gun for the wessel that can shoot it in presision using on bord computers like a special sniper gun. that fire from ranges of more then 2 miles away and have sensors on bord to track peoples and armor.
Luke Mitchell
But then it's not used as an APC, right? If it has a vulcan on top?
Btw, anyone know what this Wiesel is supposed to do? Lay a small bridge or something? Some sort of mini recovery device?
Brandon Roberts
Huh. Why does something like this not exist, or why have I never heard of that? A computer operated long range high precision rifle?
Zachary Ward
An ATGM is cheaper and more effective
Dylan Butler
What about soft targets though
Also it would be cool as fuck
Camden Peterson
>What about soft targets though
Explosive missile. You can fuck up a bunch in one hit
>Also it would be cool as fuck
Agreed but it wouldn't really make sense
Jaxson Powell
>Blocks your path
Tyler Reed
Is that a device to clear mine fields?
Jayden Sullivan
bump for the mistery pattern
David Hernandez
Versatile, light, armored, fast, all-terrain, air-mobile and STABLE weapons platform . Used as a reinforcement for Bundeswehr Falschirmjaeger infantry according to their doctrine. Thei aero-mobile forces intended to infiltrate the gaos between enemy regiments and support the attack of main forces. So they needed this hit-and-run machine. Designed to excel at European terrain. This brat could brrrt you at 2 km and dodge your ATGMs at the same time. Watch the vids when this fu€ker shoots 20mm cannon. It just don't budge. And also note its acceleration and speed forward and backward. And spin. Technicals may go and cry against it. They also have MILAN and mortar variants.
Zachary Murphy
>youtube.com
Aren't you a bit small for that amount of DAKKA?
Hunter Ramirez
>Tiny German tanks that have not seen any real combat
>see real combat
>become known as "Death Buckets"
>only the craziest german soldiers become Death Bucket crewmen.
>Death Bucket gets hit with a anti-tank rocket
>Hanz and Heinrich get immolated but the remnants of Heinrich's foot push the gas, and a tiny tank full of smoldering bodies crashes into an enemy APC then explodes
I...I'm conflicted.
Benjamin Lee
Comfy
Ethan Baker
Yes, I see that. Ignore the voices, and stop posting.
Matthew Barnes
You can hop two of them in Mi-8 or tow one by fucking Huey. It's awesome little brat. Truly aero-mobile.
Caleb Taylor
Ground Penetrating Radar for IED/Minesearch
bundeswehr-journal.de
Jose White
very comfy. but why not just sleep in the apc if it's only the two guys anyways
Blake Thompson
Pro: mobility & firepower.
Cons: Light armor, more expensive to operate than a wheeled vehicle.
Brayden Carter
Adrian Rogers
>I guess you could use them for mortar support, but flying them in and putting up a fire base nearby, but why would you bother if you can just call in CAS, helicopters or drones for support?
Because CAS, helicopters or drones eventually need to RTB to refuel.
Hudson Long
.50 slap and 40mm grenades would chew that up.
Andrew Gomez
both aren't really a threat in asymmetrical warfare
Eli Bailey
Handmade 14.5mm anti-materiél rifles and cheap RPG's are pretty common there though.
Anthony Collins
>revival on tankettes
Yes please
Jose Morgan
You can't transport 2 if them in CH-53. And it has zero armor. She can suffer even at small caliber mortar fire.
Nolan Johnson
TOW Wiesel is 3 personal. And for sleeping, there is not much room for "good" sleep. And for longer trainings you got more stuff inside, like coms, gear, ammo, food/water, extra PzF3 and such.
Samuel Nelson
They're hardly of any use save domestic. Help turn the tide for fallschirmjaeger when they're getting slaughtered by the Dutch.
Elijah Collins
>An IFV but worse
Why?
Julian Nelson
to drop it from planes or helicopters or even tow it with a huey
Adam Sanchez
Life at its best.
Aiden Martin
Even the Bundeswehr could defeat the Dutch. But why would they even ever fight, they are probably the closest friends militarily after the US
They even have binational companies iirc, like with the French
Julian Jackson
Why would you spend the resources to get it to the battlefield in that manner when there is more important equipment?
Jaxson Williams
like, what? you can put almost everything on these things. you can use them for direct fire support with an autocannon, you can fight enemy armor with a TOW, you can use it as a mobile armored machine gun nest, you can fight enemy helicopters with it, use it to extract wounded very quickly, to resupply your infrantry, or just use it for indirect fire support with a heavy mortar
Ian Butler
Artillery, anti-air, supplies.
> you can put almost everything on these things. you can use them for direct fire support with an autocannon, you can fight enemy armor with a TOW, you can use it as a mobile armored machine gun nest, you can fight enemy helicopters with it, use it to extract wounded very quickly, to resupply your infrantry, or just use it for indirect fire support with a heavy mortar
Pretty much everything you just said is wrong.
Colton Jones
I'm talking about the miles type wargaming in mock villages between Dutch air assault and Fj. Read some reports that with the nimble Wiesel with heat reduction, able to cross ditches/trenches with speed etc it could turn up from any side quickly and late to be noticed.
Aaron Turner
No, all of it is correct.
Isaiah Perry
All of it is correct, and it's not even everything that the Wiesel can be outfitted with.
>Artillery, anti-air, supplies
What are you even talking about? What artillery or anti-air system would be inserted by air that the Wiesel would make impossible, in the 21st century?
And besides, all of those roles can be fullfilled by the Wiesel, pic related
Ryder Nguyen
Because it *can* be carried by heli - unlike a MBT.
it's fast, bulletproof, and mobile. it doesn't get stuck in mud or snow like wheeled vehicles, and it's nimble to drive through deep german forest. perfect for ambushing supply lines. think of the wiesel compared to infantry, not vs tanks.
Nicholas Young
>The light, air transportable armor protected engineer reconnaissance vehicle is based on the chassis of the Wiesel 2. Up to today only a total of nine vehicles have entered service with the Bundeswehr. Among other tasks the vehicle can serve as command vehicle in order to coordinate engineer tasks. Additional possible uses of the vehicle and its crew include the construction of own obstacles as well as the clearing and marking of obstacles constructed by the enemy. The vehicle can also be used for reconnaissance tasks aimed to detect enemy obstacles, to find suitable advances routes for own forces and to check out the terrain ahead.
I like this one. Is the Wiesel in the Arma3 bundeswehr DLC?
Easton Foster
This. The Wiesel is a way for airborne infantry to carry crew served weaponry, not a light tank to bolster the ranks of MBT's.
Ethan Kelly
Then we're back to the question why only Germs use this thing. What are US paras using?
Pic related is the result of a Humvee being airdropped in Bavaria. Apparently someone in the plane fucked with some straps.
Caleb Clark
>Those names
What the fuck is wrong with German?
Brayden Bailey
Because the Germs could expect domestic warfare after the Fulda Gap in the Cold War. There's no use for the US which require more range and usefulness in foreign locales.
Kayden Smith
>Aufklärer - Scout
>Maschinenkanone - Machinecannon
>Pioniererkundungstrupp - Pioneer Reconnaissance Squad
>Flugabwehr Raketen Waffenträger - Anti Air Rocket Weaponsystem
>Leichter Panzermörser - Light Tankmortar
What's wrong with them
Connor Wilson
200km range
Yikes nigga
Logan Foster
>Pioniererkundungstrupp
Julian Flores
Germany from West to East is 640km
From North to South 900km
Leo Mitchell
>Then we're back to the question why only Germs use this thing. What are US paras using?
The Germans use it because they have heavy lift helicopters to carry Wiesels, which make tactical sense for their geography.
US airborne doesn't use it because the welded armor tends to break when paradropped. They used to have light air-dropped tanks, and probably will soon again with MPF (and SMET for the cargo side).
Michael Reyes
Are you burger? Do you know your country was very close to use German as state language at the very start? The votes were slightly more for English and now what? You're fucking afraid of German language?
Ryder Perry
>MPF
Disgusting
Lucas Wood
There was no vote and the US don't have an official language user
Jace Russell
>gets shot with .22 ratshot
>tankette literally explodes
Bentley Fisher
>Then we're back to the question why only Germs use this thing.
Because they've not spent the money on replacing them with other systems yet. With current man-portable missiles systems, they have no real role on the battlefield.
Jaxson Wilson
>BAE
No son, GDLS
Logan Adams
>Oberweserdampfschiffdfahrtsvizekapitänprüfling
It's like you can't even into Komposita
Jaxon Nelson
>groundfloor grinding machine rental
Anthony Nelson
based BGS-chan
Christian Barnes
>Do you know your country was very close to use German as state language at the very start?
Sure it was, that's why the Constitution is bilingual. Your language is fucking disgusting.
Caleb Gutierrez
>Oberweserdampfschifffahrtsvizekapitänsmützenkokettenaufnäher