Redpill me on 32ACP

Connor Myers
Connor Myers

Is this an acceptable round for a holdout pistol?

inb4 CENTIMETER

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Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=Aw0BPSnrENA
youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts
youtu.be/Fdwb6WRJB5Q
genitron.com/Handgun/Ruger/Pistol/LC380/380-Auto/Variant-1

Justin Myers
Justin Myers

Yeah, .32 is good enough but .380 is probably better if you don't mind snappy.

Colton Moore
Colton Moore

Eh, bare minimum .380 these days and at that point you're just a hair away from a compact 9. They're neat and that lel kek is fun for about a magazines worth of noise, but why worry about two guns when you can carry an extra magazine for your main?

Christopher Cooper
Christopher Cooper

Great round for building up your bullet resistance when you’re ready to move up from a 22

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Wyatt Powell
Wyatt Powell

Not OP but in warmer climates pocket pistols are a good option.
Epic.

Samuel Russell
Samuel Russell

Anything is better than nothing and 32 used to be a standard police calibre. Box of Truth found that it could be stopped by denim. Granted they were using True Religion but you get the idea.

Carson Baker
Carson Baker

Denim could not stop it lmao, pic related, by 32 baby

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Adrian Hall
Adrian Hall

I toss a shield in the pocket of my dollar store cotton shorts and walk the dog. Don't even have to tie them. I used to use a pocketlite .380 but it's just a dust collector now.

Benjamin Murphy
Benjamin Murphy

I've been carrying one around the house or those few situations where it fills the "I don't have a gun, gun" role for years. Works fine, easy to shoot, points well for it's task of mag dumping into someones face at somewhat close range.

Benjamin Nguyen
Benjamin Nguyen

I have a kektec 32, it’s a great gun for asscheek carry level concealment. Just make sure you google ‘kel-tec fluff n buff’ and follow along. Factory finish level leaves something to be desired, especially regarding the slide/frame interface points. 800 grit buffing paper will slick the function right up

Adrian Foster
Adrian Foster

Evan Marshall/ed sanow book

.32 acp Winchester Silvertip had 66% one shot stop in 151 shootings with an average penetration of 9.2 in.

.380 acp federal hydra shok had 71% one shot stop in 96 shootings with an average penetration of 9.4 in

Take that data for whatever its worth.

Logan Ward
Logan Ward

The fuck is that sexy little thing?

Ayden Gonzalez
Ayden Gonzalez

I dunno if I'd trust the keltec

How about seecamp?

I'm sure beretta tomcat was reliable, though way bigger.

Oliver Gray
Oliver Gray

The round that failed to penetrate denim was a squib and they state as much. They were also shooting milk jugs full of water for "penetration testing" and using JHP like retards.
Zastava M70

Carry FMJ in your 380 and below pocket gun. JHP tends to either act like FMJ anyway or it expands and doesn't go deep enough.

Andrew Williams
Andrew Williams

Zastava m70?

Yugoslav .32?

Gabriel Peterson
Gabriel Peterson

Modern jhp designs has evolved so much

I'm wondering if jhp in .32 and .380 is a much more reliable penetrator than before

Chase Lewis
Chase Lewis

Jow Forumslassy .32 carry gun thread?

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Grayson Williams
Grayson Williams

I'll take that beautiful beretta

84/85 in .380

I'm assuming 82/83 in .32 acp?

Juan Thompson
Juan Thompson

One of the funnest guns I own is in .32ACP

pic related

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Carson Ross
Carson Ross

81 is the double stack 32, 82 is the single stack. 83 was a slightly shorter gripped 380 single stack similar to the 85 but holding 7 instead of 8.

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Andrew Wright
Andrew Wright

Gotcha

Thanks, fren

Gavin Robinson
Gavin Robinson

OP here. Thx all. Buying a 32 for sure now. Which one though?

Angel Scott
Angel Scott

I've seen gel tests that at least imply that .32acp may actually be better and at least as good as .380. I don't know how true it is though.

Adam Cook
Adam Cook

Can anyone give me a size comparison of an M70 and an LCP? (Gen 1 or 2, doesn't matter)

Ryder Wright
Ryder Wright

It really depends on what you want and what your budget is. The Kel-Tec P32 is hard to beat for the super small carry gun you seem to be looking for. The other option is pic related, a seecamp, or a Beretta Tomcat.

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Oliver Jenkins
Oliver Jenkins

bare minimum .380 these days
humans havent evolved kevlar skin, .32 ACP is just as effective as it was when introduced, possibly more due to modern loadings.
youtube.com/watch?v=Aw0BPSnrENA
also dont forget .32 ACP has some nice looking guns

Attached: Feg37M.jpg (147 KB, 1800x1350)

Asher Myers
Asher Myers

I believe the beretta tomcat is better but also a bit pricey. If you don't mind shilling like 450 shekels for a sexy 32 go ahead.

Wyatt Stewart
Wyatt Stewart

people are taller and fatter due to changes in nutrition.

Jordan Jackson
Jordan Jackson

a holdout pistol
WTF is a "holdout pistol?"

Noah Rivera
Noah Rivera

They are honestly very close comparing FMJ from very small guns in gel. Good quality .32ACP tends to get close to or slightly over penetrate. 380ACP tends to be a little beyond that closer to consistently slightly over penetrating. Longer barrels like in the Beretta 81 vs 85 tends to change it up a bit with good JHP. 32ACP will be a bit shallow with ok expansion but still in the acceptable range, 380ACP will tend to expand well and fall right in the middle of FBI gel requirements.
I prefer .32ACP just because it's so much easier to shoot well very fast. Pictured target was point shooting a Beretta 81FS loaded 12+1 at 10 yards starting at the chest A-zone and transitioning to the head. I was just sighting down the top of the slide and firing as fast as I could pull the trigger.

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Jordan Sullivan
Jordan Sullivan

my carry gun is a cheetah 81, unironically, it's a great gun.

Jack Anderson
Jack Anderson

true, .380 and bellow should only shoot fmj's, also I don't think they make good pocket guns, real pocket guns should be .25acp and .22lr, no more, no less.

Lincoln Cruz
Lincoln Cruz

well, that's fair, but it doesn't make enough difference to rule out the performance of .32acp, or even .22 short, for that matter.

Joshua Powell
Joshua Powell

They are awesome guns. There is only one other gun I would consider putting ahead of the 81, and that's pic related. The CZ83 has a great trigger and in .32ACP holds 15+1. It's only held back by two things really, lack of a decocker and the .32ACP version being stupidly hard to find.

Attached: CZ83-765mm.jpg (1.88 MB, 3072x2304)

Ryan Jackson
Ryan Jackson

Not only that, but some guns are also better in .32acp, like the walther pp and ppk, much more snappy when chambered in .380 acp.

The cheetah, on the other hand, carries one extra round in it's .380 acp variant, so that's a good plus, I have both but I use the .32acp, but I mean, whatever.

Thomas Williams
Thomas Williams

not to the extent that I would expect it would make any real difference when getting shot

Mason Gray
Mason Gray

Better than nothing but personally I wouldn't carry anything below 9mm. There are plenty of single stack 9s that are easily concealed. 10-15 years ago it was a different story.

Camden Jones
Camden Jones

I have some experience with the cz 83 in .380 acp, a friend has one of the latter models with the combat trigger guard, it's a very nice gun, although we always got into discussions of which was better, since both me and my dad carried cheetahs and he had a cz, lol, I personally prefer the beretta for the reasons he liked the cz better, the cheetah is smaller and lighter, but he liked that the 83 was a military sidearm, with higher capacity and steel frame instead of the alloy frame of the beretta.

Honestly, the only thing that puts me off about the cz is the lack of a frame to rest my left hand thumb while shooting, It's a very interesting gun.

I have seen one or two .32acp variants for sale, but I would never buy one unless it came with at the very least three mags, but it's a gun I would enjoy to own in .380acp.

My dad's 84f has a decocker, and my 81 doesn't, doesn't bother me one bit, really.

Luke Clark
Luke Clark

The only problem I see with carrying a 32 is the cost of ammunition. But I’d also carry a .22lr or a .25 and pop off on niggers without hesitation.

Gavin Harris
Gavin Harris

Hello again /32/. One of my favorite threads.
One of these days I'll test the Phillips head meme rounds on a pig head or something to see if they're better than FMJ and HP.

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William Moore
William Moore

shooting goats

Adam Barnes
Adam Barnes

They do make good .380 ammo and plenty better than FMJ, here is a video summarizing a whole playlist worth of testing a guy did with .380 out of smaller pistols like the LCP, P3AT, etc: youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts

Do make sure you find ammo tests that usefully match the pistol you plan on shooting out of, a bunch of the rounds he tested likely would work fine out of a 3.5" barrel but out of the smaller 2.75" guns they don't work.

Isaac Baker
Isaac Baker

bump with .32 family photo minus the P32. Had the settings wrong and details turned out blurry but I can't be assed to dig them all out of the safe again.

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Bentley Barnes
Bentley Barnes

.32 is a decent enough self defense caliber. Its light as hell but that allows for soft recoil and easy follow up shots. Theres only a handful of decent guns to choose from for it though.
Then theres .380, kind of the same idea but more options for platforms and is arguably better in terms of ballistics
.380 is better then .32
.38 special is better then .380

after that its really just splitting hairs

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James Long
James Long

Couple of muh 32s. That CZ is ugly but it's a shootin' muthafucka

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William Russell
William Russell

It's great for classy carry.
Ballistics are fine if you purchase premium defense rounds like cavitators.
I make that my +1 and follow with a magazine of smooth loading FMJ.
No JHP.

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Samuel Moore
Samuel Moore

youtu.be/Fdwb6WRJB5Q

Daniel Mitchell
Daniel Mitchell

CENTIMETEEERS

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Nathaniel Turner
Nathaniel Turner

I mean, only exception to my rule would be hornady critical defense in .380acp.

By the way, I just realized they make them for .32acp, but I think, as sexy as it sounds, I'll stick to good old proven ball ammo.

Each to their own, of course, but as I said, the only .380acp jhp I really like and trust 100% is critical defense, for .32acp I'll get magtech, s&b or pup.

Colton Taylor
Colton Taylor

Ones you can take into casinos.

Oliver Kelly
Oliver Kelly

adequate =/= optimal

Justin James
Justin James

I feel like you didn't do any research into this at all and are going off old fuddlore or something.

.380 ball ammo gets 25+ inches of penetration and this is really just too much and will all too likely exit the target. That critical defense is the opposite problem with barely 9 inches of penetration possibly not reaching vitals if you have to shoot from a sub-optimal angle.

There's a reason the FBI recommends 12-18" of penetration and only a few bullets can manage that in .380 through pistols with ~2.75" barrels.

Christian Perez
Christian Perez

Any love for .32 S&W in the thread too?

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Josiah Watson
Josiah Watson

posted the wrong one, fugg

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Bentley Johnson
Bentley Johnson

It's probably more ideal as a deep-concealment caliber than .380 but there are like 2 guns you can buy so might as well get a .380. Just like 327 mag it is a better caliber for the purpose but not enough of a difference for people to switch to it.

Caleb Phillips
Caleb Phillips

No, really, I've been carrying .380acp and .32acp my whole life, years of carrying my cheetah 81, not only that, I have seen more real life cases than most people ever will, and .380acp is probably the most used caliber by civilians where I live.

Now, one thing I will say is, backgrounds are different, I don't have such a cheap and easy access to ammo as americans have, less variety, so, today, fmj would be my best bet, regardless of what FBI gel tests say.

I really like critical defense, yes, that's personal and I'm not saying it's the best, matter of fact, any modern jhp will pretty much work the same, bonded or not, winchester white box or sig sauer, you'll be just as dead, let's not get technical here, I didn't state I was right or wrong.

Another thing, I'm not talking about short barreled firearms, as I said, I don't think .32acp or .380acp make good pocket guns.

Bentley Long
Bentley Long

Nice! Kinda want something more modern in .32H&R mag or .327 so I can shoot pretty much anything .32 out of it.

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Jason Campbell
Jason Campbell

Fair enough then, I was doing my research around smaller pocket guns as they are what I can easily enough carry with my work dress. Small pocket pistols leave a lot of hollow points working just as well as FMJ hence why I was harping on paying attention to specific tests with them. Anything with a longer barrel leaves you with a much larger selection of ammo that works well.

Adrian Fisher
Adrian Fisher

I own a CZ-83 in .380 ACP - the new production ones that CZ's put out in the late 2000s and early 2010s.

It's truly a hipster gat; a commercial version of a relatively unknown military side arm - people always mistake it for a Makarov. Scored mine for $500 with night sights and 8 magazines.

I'd love to buy the .32 ACP version just because I like the idea of such a solidly built steel gun throwing such low recoil projectiles - it would be something of a step up from using a .22 target pistol or .25 ACP for defense, but not as much recoil as a 9mm or .380. Magazines for them are still super common - you can find the .32 ACP mags with a simple Google search and on Gunbroker, though they run $35 to $40 a pop.

Even then though I'd still love to buy it, because it's really the only gun in its class: a double stack steel .32 ACP. (The VZ61 doesn't count; it's really not something you'd want to CCW either.)

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Caleb Gonzalez
Caleb Gonzalez

Well, as I said, different backgrounds, different ways of viewing things.

For pocket pistols, I thinks guns like the lcp, tcp, g42, g43, tomcat, j-frames and such aren't good pocket pistols you want to be carrying around.

If you're considering something this caliber and size, you might as well go subcompact with more capacity and bigger barrel, and if you want something on you 24/7, light and quick, concealable, then something like a beretta bobcat, seecamp, fn/colt vest pocket, beretta jet fire, etc, etc, etc

Personally, I would suggest a 21a bobcat in .25acp, much like the h&k mp5, it is, even after all these years, the best tool for the job.

You could have 3 or 4 extra mags on your pocket without any problems, that's a LOT of firepower for the size

Jackson Scott
Jackson Scott

32 is fine and better than 25 and 22

380 is better than 32 :)

here's some recoil numbers

keltec 32 3.61
ruger lcp2 4.73
ruger lc380 3.08 <-- I have 2 of these and love them

ruger ecs9s 7.24

yes there really is a noticable difference shooting every 1 of these guns

numbers courtesy this cool website

genitron.com/Handgun/Ruger/Pistol/LC380/380-Auto/Variant-1

Julian Robinson
Julian Robinson

That's just like the one my friend has, cool gun, and you got yourself a great deal.

Well, even .380 acp mags are hard to find where I live, and very expensive, as you said, it's a hipster gat, no doubt about it.

And yes, I don't know many other .32acp firearms like it, the cheetah is a bit smaller and lighter, the only larger gun I know of is the taurus pt57, which is a 15-shot beretta 92 copy in .32acp, pretty cool gun, I like them a lot.

There is also a smaller 57 which is a bit bigger than the cheetah, so roughly the same size as this, called the pt57 sc, but it only holds 12 rounds.

James Edwards
James Edwards

Bare minimum 9mm. It’s 2019.

Adrian Torres
Adrian Torres

.32 ACP is acceptable for people who psychologically dread being shot. I would be very uncomfortable trusting it to physically stop someone.

I would be much more worried about .32 being stopped short by a rib than I would 9mm.

Joseph Diaz
Joseph Diaz

nice, i didnt even think about getting something that could shoot all of it. good idea user.

Brayden Nguyen
Brayden Nguyen

hundreds of thousands have died as a result of .32/7.65 in both of the great boogalo's but according to sweaty tacticool fags, if you're not packing a handcannon of at least a .357mag, you're not prepared enough to get your house broken into in the middle of the night or getting robbed in the parking lot by a nig meanwhile the humble, yet effective .32/7.65 has seen full scale war across the world in trenches, freezing winters, scalding deserts, salty waters,etc. and proved effective.

I personally carry a p32 and fine with it. The common criminal doesnt give a shit if you shoot them with a .32 or a 10mm.

Ethan Parker
Ethan Parker

9mm is obviously much more powerful but .32 will have no problem reaching vitals with precise shot placement at least.

Brandon Fisher
Brandon Fisher

I'm sorry are we as a species slowly developing immunity to bullets as the century moves forward?

Joseph Hernandez
Joseph Hernandez

The average american today has several inches of ballistics gel protecting their vitals.

Jaxon Ward
Jaxon Ward

The .32 is fine for anything you'd realistically expect a pistol to due : act as a tool to kill or disable an attacker. Many European armies used them through both world wars. It's perfectly acceptable for CC, provided you can do one thing - hit what you aim at. Whether it's a 45, a 380, a 9mm, or a .22, if you can't get shot placement right, you might as well not carry a gun.

bottom line - .32acp is fine.

Luis Edwards
Luis Edwards

Here's your gun then

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Jonathan Taylor
Jonathan Taylor

why go for .380 when you can go for the best of both worlds?

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Blake Ross
Blake Ross

I agree and I think we should kick off the .32 revival here on Jow Forums. The .32 makes more sense in a lcp sized pistol and .327 nets you a 6 shot snub.

Henry Jones
Henry Jones

kick off the .32 revival here on Jow Forums

I think it's already underway everywhere, and with this batch of 81s that Sweaty Ben is pushing I think it'll keep building steam.

Luis Kelly
Luis Kelly

Is that one of the new production 1903s or just a really clean old one?

Angel White
Angel White

Criminals are catching onto the bullet microdosing secret

Kevin Price
Kevin Price

.32 revival
I'm currently in the middle of making a .22 TCM conversion barrel for a G43/48.
Three of the projects in the running for next project:
.32 ACP barrel for LCP
May also need a modified or scratch-made extractor, etc.
Haven't done preliminary testing yet.
.32 NAA barrel for LCP
drop-in fit, but no capacity gain; likely alternative to .32 ACP depending how extensive the required work is
".327 Super" wildcat barrel for G19
I don't reload, so big learning curve there -- realistically, this is more a summer project than a couple weekends in the fall.
But dad used to reload, has a bunch of gear sitting in the basement.
So (relatively) low cost to get started, just need dies. May be able to modify .30 Carbine dies or some such...

David Gutierrez
David Gutierrez

better than nothing. just make sure to use non-expanding rounds, fmj or hc. same goes for .380.

Henry Flores
Henry Flores

I wanted a Beretta Tomcat 3032 until I finally got to hold one. Controls don't work well for a leftie and it's slightly bigger than my LCP II. Sad, because I really liked the look of it and the hinged barrel idea.

Jeremiah Phillips
Jeremiah Phillips

if 32 auto has such awful penetration why do people use jhp and make the situation worse?
why not fmj?

Luke Diaz
Luke Diaz

seecamps suck because they only feed hollowpoints, so practicing with them is quite expensive.

Blake Bell
Blake Bell

you either have FMJ .32s that do nothing if they hit someone or HP .32s that do something assuming the target isn't wearing much clothing.

Thomas Long
Thomas Long

a .32" diameter hole through vitals kills and worked fine for the prime years of 32 auto. Id rather it than something that expanded to the size of an fmj 9mm and couldnt reach anything important.

Sebastian Barnes
Sebastian Barnes

Unfortunately those with infected wounds die extremely high rates trying to build up a lead immunity, some studies show up to 40%

Elijah Turner
Elijah Turner

I would invite anybody considering a 32acp for self defense to watch Paul Harrell's video on 32acp on YouTube. No, 32 is NOT good if you have other choices. In that vid you will see the lack of penetration and hollowpoint expansion of .32acp vs good penetration and hollowpoint expansion of .380acp. There is plenty of info on this subject out there that confirms that .32 can do the job, but there are much, much better choices.

Eli Evans
Eli Evans

keyword is 'through the vitals'. if it was that easy we'd all be using .22s

Gabriel Hill
Gabriel Hill

yeah the only excuse for .32 is if you are carrying a literal pocket pistol because anything else will be too big.

Ethan Barnes
Ethan Barnes

why worry about two guns when you can carry an extra magazine for your main

If your main pistol gets lost, breaks, falls down a well or whatever then I can see the desirability of having a 2nd pistol.

Grayson Garcia
Grayson Garcia

.22 Magnum > .32 ACP

for a pocket gun at least

Ian Hill
Ian Hill

rimfire for self defense gun

Nah. You sound like my Fudd father in law

Kevin Allen
Kevin Allen

Practicing with storebought .32 ACP is always expensive, for half the cartridge of 9mm it's funny paying 30-50% more.
ISTR hearing about someone loading flat-nosed cast bullets to .910"-ish OAL and getting good results in a LWS32, think they were using a Ranch Dog mold maybe.
But that doesn't help unless you already reload, or feel you need another hobby.

Asher Scott
Asher Scott

M1935 Italian police

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Adrian Ramirez
Adrian Ramirez

i guess some people are clueless and just assume hollowpoints are always better or they fall for the marketing

people seem to underestimate how more shot placement, penetration and number of holes matter, than the diameter of wound channels.
here's a question: would you rather have both your arms cut off or one and that one cut in two?

Christian Lee
Christian Lee

Why bother with .32 when the world's best .32 is also the world's best .380?

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Mason Phillips
Mason Phillips

The year of the lord 1819+200
Claiming rimfire is unreliable
Okay, I bet you don’t even clean your guns.

Jace Russell
Jace Russell

It's a restored old one because it was originally broken and trashed. The barrel was heavily pitted and the replacement is also threaded. It's really fun suppressed.
Paul's video on 32 is unfortunately one of Paul's worst videos. Mainly due to his insistence on using ammunition he finds locally. Ammo selection is key with small calibers and he picked awful ammo. All US domestic brands of 32ACP are substantially weaker loaded than typical for the caliber. He also attempted to test JHP out of a very small gun. Basically the absolute worst combinations of gun and ammo he could have made. Not even getting into the usefulness of comparing soda jugs.

Benjamin Jones
Benjamin Jones

I agree, just sayin that the level of confidence it provides that a reasonably placed shot will penetrate to the vital organ, and allow the subject to bleed out, is lower than I am comfortable with.

95% of people will nope out just because it's a gun. Half the people undeterred will stop when shot because, "I've been shot!" The other half will stop when they are physically unable to continue. Those are the ones I'm referring to.

Jacob Jenkins
Jacob Jenkins

TOMCAT
O
M
C
A
T

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Ethan Myers
Ethan Myers

TL;DR of it; both need good shot placement, have enough penetration to get the job done with such, and .32 has a bit less recoil (read: a bit more ease of second shot good placement).

Wyatt Ward
Wyatt Ward

it could be stopped by denim
And katanas can cut machinegun barrels, right

Sebastian Sanchez
Sebastian Sanchez

No, but back in the day when 32 ACP was a military cartridge, it wasn't exactly having to put down motherfuckers on PCP or meth, besides the occasional German on Pervitin.

Jayden Perez
Jayden Perez

I was carrying a .32auto every day for a couple years. Always have +p FMJ loaded in there. I stick to store purchases because some people tended to have a habit of doing things to tamper with my mail otherwise I likely would have picked up some cavitator's.

I really don't trust a lot of ballistic gel tests, but all the ones of .32 I've seen consistently fail outright or hardly meet the minimum. At 50-60 grain HP's I really question just how useful the expansion is for it's size. In FMJ, it's at the upper end for penetration in gel. Sure it'll ice pick but it's cruising at about a thousand feet per second, I have no doubts it's going to poke a hole through something, and I don't think a bone will stop that. At best maybe the round nose ricochets off a bone and changes it's trajectory a bit creating a longer wound channel giving more space for them to bleed from. Hollow points do the same thing just by making a larger hole instead of a longer one. I'm a lot more confident with the FMJ loadings than HP's in that caliber. Although the meplat flat nose on HP's I've picked up before would be kinda nice in an FMJ if it didn't expand just worked like a regular FMJ just not a round nose.

Jeremiah Diaz
Jeremiah Diaz

Only time it won't be useful is if someone high on bath salts tries to cut your balls off with a spork or if you don't practice enough with it.

Why not just stack FMJ's and hallow points to get the best of both worlds via a mix of penetration and expansion.

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James Gonzalez
James Gonzalez

Those nails
Fucking disgusting.

Grayson Hill
Grayson Hill

because even .25 fmj's can overpenetrate. the point of defensive jhp's is really to eliminate potential collateral damage from on-target hits.

Cameron Perry
Cameron Perry

Hell yeah scorpbro
When I got mine I ultimately decided on getting it in .32 for the aesthetic of the curved mag.
Thinking of getting one of the 9x18 or .380 ones now, are they any good?

Owen Phillips
Owen Phillips

It’s tradeoffs as in anything. Muh wound channel is only one consideration.

Caleb Evans
Caleb Evans

Hell yeah. I think the lcp idea is the most practical. Many people who own them don't shoot them often enough do to the unpleasant recoil.

Eli Roberts
Eli Roberts

I'd rather have a good hit with a .32 than a miss with a .380. .380 is too much for the lcp and that little bugger jumps around in your hand like nothing else.

Dominic Cox
Dominic Cox

I wouldn't say the guys who need a CNS shot are common. Most of those guys are being apprehended by LEOs so those chimps will fight to the death. Most opportunists who are out mugging don't have that same psychological profile and since you aren't trying to arrest them they tend to scatter.
Nevertheless, carry yhe big iron if you can.

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