Saudi Patriot & Aegis don’t match their advertised properties, unfit for real comb

Is this true?

>Patriot and Aegis air defense systems don’t match their advertised properties – they are inefficient against small-size aerial targets and cruise missiles.

on.rt.com/a20m

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Other urls found in this thread:

defence-blog.com/army/u-s-army-conducts-intercept-of-cruise-missile-at-record-distance.html
theverge.com/2017/3/16/14944256/patriot-missile-shot-down-consumer-drone-us-military
twitter.com/DuitsyWasHere/status/1174557248061722624
twitter.com/julianborger/status/1174704244060016640
defenseone.com/ideas/2019/06/us-wants-sell-taiwan-wrong-weapons/157630/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Saudis don't have Ageis Ashore??? and Patriot is intended for BMD, not lowflying cruise missiles.

>rt

>is this true?
No one will know because no one will admit a fuckup. At the same time the opposition will latch on to anything that makes the other look weak.
Read a story that implies Saudi defenses were actually Soviet 400s. Possible with Saudi military spending being the third highest, but we saw what happened when India bought them. BUT that might have not had the shit flinging because they are a far more important to the US. What's true? Fuck if I know I don't live there

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I can't even imagine having to worry about another country cruise missile-ing my country. I bet insurance doesn't cover anything either. I wonder if someone made a fuckload of money off of that attack

>Is this true?
It’s RT, so probably not. Also, Saudis don’t use any Aegis system as far as I’m aware.

US SAMs are generally shit because they aren't a major part of their stratergy.
Also systems tend to preform significantly worse in the real world where the targets can manuver and shoot back.

>and Patriot is intended for BMD, not lowflying cruise missiles.
This.

I really don't understand this gripe; the attackers chose an attack method that the Patriot system isn't meant to work against at all. This whole meme is just as stupid as saying that level 4 plates suck ass because they don't protect against flamethrowers or nerve gas. Patriot was never designed to counter small, low-flying, threats like drones.

Or maybe there was a gap in the defenses

It’s also worth noting that the Saudi’s defenses at the site for small, low-flying projectiles consisted of AA guns and some pretty dated French platforms.

So what you're saying is that PATRIOT isn't designed for modern warfare and is unfit for combat? It sounds like all Ivan has to do is launch a cruise missile at a PATRIOT station to disable it

Yup. Something I think is a little more embarrassing would be for something like a Pantsir being destroyed by a glide bomb it's intended to defend against...

proof is in the pudding.

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Odd choice, you would think they would run something like the Phalanx CIWS for point defence.

I’m not really sure how well CIWS would perform against cruise missiles with terrain in the way. They’ve been falling out of favor with naval planners over the years due to their relatively low effectiveness compared to missiles, and that’s in an effectively ideal environment for air defense, with no obstructions.

>So what you're saying is that PATRIOT isn't designed for modern warfare and is unfit for combat?
No, I'm saying it's suited for shooting down an entirely different class of threat than small drones.

Exactly.

Patriot PAC-3 MSE has been successfully tested against cruise missiles, Saudis only have PAC-2 which only work against ballistic missiles and aircraft. Suicide drones are usually a lot smaller than cruise missiles, especially Russian ones. SHORAD like the Pantsir are needed for small drones, but as Syria has shown us that doesn’t always work out.

defence-blog.com/army/u-s-army-conducts-intercept-of-cruise-missile-at-record-distance.html

I personally think that a CIWS type system is the future for drone defense, but on a very different scale than extant systems.

I'm imagining a much smaller system, probably laser based, deployed in large numbers.

Do the Saudis even operate any systems meant to defend against low-flying cruise missiles?

True but it's also against anti-shit missiles that tend to have a supersonic terminal phase rather than a glide bomb that only gets slower as it gets lower.

Yeah, I think lasers will eventually be the way to go with that as well. Small, slowish, low-flying targets are kind of ideal for lasers to deal with.

Swiss sky guard and French crotale.

They're suppose to handle small, low flying objects not patriot.

This, literal vatnik feel-good propaganda

They’ve ordered Patriot PAC-3, but that hasn’t been delivered and I think they have some Pantsir systems?

>theverge.com/2017/3/16/14944256/patriot-missile-shot-down-consumer-drone-us-military

Patriots have shot down quadcopters in the past. But they aren't designed to do it, or to hit cruise missiles.

When drone swams are a legit threat lasers will be the way to go as the drones will have to be cheap (ie. plastic).
But for bombs you are always going to need a projectile to get though ~1 inch of steel fast and detonate the HE.

The cost ratio for that has to be insane. Guns and lasers are definitely the way to go over missiles for drone defense.

Agreed. Plus, lasers are able to be used in close proximity to infrastructure without causing major damage. Imagine what would happen if you spray a bunch of 20mm (or larger) APFSDS rounds in an oil refinery... All those rounds have to come down at some point. A laser capable of icing small drones wouldn't be particularly hazardous if you were to miss, at least not compared to an autocannon round. And if you're firing at any sort of upward angle you likely won't hit anything at all in the event of a miss.

>Guns and lasers are definitely the way to go over missiles for drone defense.
Depends on what you mean by "drone".
Small drones? I totally agree. Big drones like the Reaper? Missile is good for that.

Also true. The Phalanx C-RAM seems effective enough at defending airbases from mortars and rockets, so there’s probably some value in gun-based defenses.

twitter.com/DuitsyWasHere/status/1174557248061722624

Here’s a really good Twitter thread on why Abaiq’s air defences failed. It blames the failure on multiple factors:

1.) Patriot isn’t designed to shoot down small drones.
2.) Satellite imagery shows the Patriot radar was pointing south to Yemen not North.
3.) The radar was not located above nearby buildings, cluttering it’s view.
4.) Imagery also shows that it could have possibly been switched off at the time of the attack because Saudi incompetence.

Yeah, I was mostly referring to the idea of a multi hundred thousand if not million dollar missile being used against an off the shelf quadcopter.

>than small drones.

I thought we were talking about cruise missiles that can come all the way from Iran? They are back to being small drones now? This story is changing more than the list of genders

The curret official story is cruise missiles despite the fact the parts shown look like the back of a glide bomb and in reality SA probably blew it up themselves and are just blaming Iran.

>lasers
The future is now. These are being fielded selectively already and headed for mass production.

> source: I am a laser

The debris the Saudis displayed included both Iranian cruise missiles and drones.

>pesa radars cant pick up low flying targets fast enough

call me suprised we know this like forever patriots are for spot defence against aircrafts and nothing more

0.) It was a cruise missile sent by the CIA

Saudi Arabia did not destroy their own infrastructure, cutting the country’s production in half immediately before Aramco was about to hit IPO, you fucking retard. The Saudis are shitty people, but the absolutely like money, and wouldn’t do something that’d intentionally cause them to lose it.

Jesus, what is going on? This has to be the most intelligent thread on this incident I've seen the whole week. Wish there was more of this.

It ran out of ammo. So what?

Great for drones but I have serious doubts about lasers against bombs and aircraft. Give you bomb terminal spin by putting the fins hard over and now the laser can't just burn a hole in the case but must fully cut the bomb in half to detonate the HE. As for planes ablative armor should be pretty easy.

i mean you need to activate the pantsir first to see if it works not hear the missile coming and then run on the truck to activate it

It’s lunch time on the East Coast, maybe?

This. Iran initially tried to use cruise missiles, but that was promptly repelled by the Patriot missiles. So they used the gun show loophole to have houthi terrorists use small drones like on tremors when they used RC cars

Iran and Syria are both in the way of a natual gas pipeline that would run from Qatar though SA into Turkey. Losing a few months of production for decades of gas that can't happen until Iran is gone is an investment.

Maybe not them but the two other usual suspects are the U.S. and Israel.

This is a gayop to justify a western war against Iran. Iran has the absolute least to gain from attacking SA.

>Russia Today

Or Iran could have just done it like usual.

It actually is really looking like this incident will pass with nothing more than sanctions, so these conspiracy theories are looking pretty silly

not really we know that france russia china usa and i think greece(?) are actually working on way to slap bragg mirrors on small suicide drones there are many problems to solve obviously but lasers for sure wont be effective for much longer against small drones

It’s thursday so glowniggers are working from home

>like usual
Name something they did before 6 months ago. Personally I find it strange that "Iran" is suddenly doing all this shit that gains them nothing.

It's a Gayop every time, retard.

Iran is testing the resolve of western institutions. Bolton’s during is an example of Iran’s enemies buckling under the threat of IGRC global terror, rather than address the issue.

Iraq, Afganistan, Syrian and Iran stood in the way of the Qatar / Turkey pipeline 20 years ago. Strange that those 4 nations have had some changes since them.

>if a psyop isn't successful it never happened.

I doubt this will end up working. You'd have to completely cover every single part of the drone with the bragg coating; if there is even the tiniest bit left unprotected then the drone is fucked.

Anyone with prior knowledge of the attacks could have made a fucktastic amount of money from financial markets by exploiting the oil price spike that surely follows such an attack.

Mirrors are of limited utility against laser weapons. Even if they’re designed to reflect as much of the weapon’s specific wavelength as possible, the small amount of energy that’s absorbed by the surface will quickly char, reducing its reflective properties and quickly increasing energy absorption. A better solution is some sort of ablative material that burns off into a cloud, like a spacecraft heat shield, diffusing the beam and carrying heat away.

twitter.com/julianborger/status/1174704244060016640

Jup, looks like we're not gonna do shit.
So how's this one supposed to work out for Israel/Saudis, again?

HAHAHAHAH

>Let's get some misconceptions out of the way:
>-The Saudis are not incompetent
>-Patriot is not useless
>-The attackers were not merely "lucky"
>-I am not actually air defense expert

He then inadvertently proves that every one of those statements is false.

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all you need is a rotating mirror not an entire missile covered on it

>we

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God, at least we went about 10 minutes before the first da joos poster showed up. Well done, nue-Jow Forumsk.

Saudi's the bitch here. Just got half their oil production knocked out and they're about to do nothing in return.

>the intelligence services never fuckup predicting the future
Just because they though it would work doesn't mean it will.

It’s because the saudis are incompetent, and the Patriot missile has a 120 degree field of view, I mean it was switched off, Imran it’s because they were drones which were too small, but wait it was Iranian cruise missiles that went into stealth mode, I mean it’s becausr Saudi didn’t have enough units, or they were turned off, I mean they were actually using Russian systems

As shocking as this may be. Directional anti ballistic missile systems with their radars and launchers pointed south aren’t particularly well-suited for intercepting low-flying cruise missiles coming from the north.

>Anyone with prior knowledge of the attacks could have made a fucktastic amount of money from financial markets by exploiting the oil price spike that surely follows such an attack.
So it was DEFINITELY the CIA or Israel.

They didn't even think it would work. Their plan is to keep doing false flags until one of them finally does.

See this? This is what has killed rational discussion on this board.

Nothing ever happens. It's the Jews or CIA. Obviously.

Also in their minds jews don't also control Russia for some reason

Why cant they just put those radars on a turntable? For hundreds a million dollar a pop you would have thought these things would come with complete accessories.

>rt
lol

We have steer-able rail guns now which sooner later will be used for missile defense as well as be used to blast meteorites before before they impact the planet.
t. Contractor that tests shit

Russia is too corrupt for even the Jews to control it. Like a house being too dirty for roaches to live there

Railguns are easy; just attack from two directions simultaneously its not like the barrel can be trained instantly.

Whether or not it works, the US selling faulty ewuipment to other countries, allies included is not news.

Why give them a tool that they can turn agaisn't you?

Wrong. The source in the OP is from RT (RUSSIA TODAY)

Read that again:

RUSSIA
TODAY

Stop being retarded.

Lol

Nigger, you need to look at a map.

sounds like a design flaw to me

You okay user? Did you read the headline of ?

This is the problem with Russian propaganda, it spreads to other sites to launder their anti-american agenda.

>So it was DEFINITELY the CIA or Israel.
Nope. Even random terrorists could profit from something like that.

>Hey Ahmed
>Yes, Mohammad?
>Have you bought those oil futures yet, Ahmed?
>Inshallah, it has been done.
>Wonderful, I shall launch the attack now.

In fact, it's entirely possible that such an operation might be done with the sole purpose of manipulating the oil market to make money for a terrorist operation.

Use your brain.
Any system that wants to shoot down a rapidly approaching missile (etc) has only a few seconds, if that, to react. If your radar happens to be pointing the wrong way at the moment the threat is incoming then you're fucked. The radar needs to be "seeing" the threat constantly for it to engage. It's not like air traffic control radar where it doesn't matter if a target is out of sight for a few seconds before the antenna spins around and picks it up again.

Of course, you could have multiple radars facing multiple directions, or you could have a search radar coupled with a fast-reacting targeting radar. The only problems with that is cost.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the CIA gave the drones to the Yemen’s to use against SA. America is pretty much energy independent these days but the economic pressure on China would be extreme. They import the most oil on the planet so an attack like this only makes their grim economic output even worse.

It’s probably why Trump seems like he doesn’t care, since it effects China so much more than America. It could also increase Chinese efforts to find oil in the South Chinese sea and other places.

Go shoot some more krokodil

It's propaganda, all propaganda, the US feeds everyone propaganda, Europe does, Russia does, China does, during peace and war. Statics are bullshit and made up and none of it is worth arguing. Only the internal R&D Teams know how good their shit preforms and they keep it a closely gaurded secret while they improve it, test it, then field it. Everything else is just third parties making guesses based off propaganda people are too fucking stupid to fall for

/thread

defenseone.com/ideas/2019/06/us-wants-sell-taiwan-wrong-weapons/157630/

Still waiting for any proofs on that.

It would not be a stand alone system numbnutts

No clicks for you vatnik. Maybe try for some rubles tomorrow

You're fucking stupid if you think that the trojan horse strategy is still not used.

It is on most installations like destroyers.

>Saudi

found the problem.

A naval cannon application has nothing whatsoever to do with using small railguns as a sort of CIWS.

>US SAMs are generally shit
Because its insurance against mutinies and internal revolts.

In the case of Turkey, most likely, but generally, they just serve as a way for countries to delay the loss of air superiority when the Americans invade at a cheaper cost than having a well-trained air force for the Americans to shoot down.

Or just use the 76mm Otomatic Italian gun.

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That's an incredibly plausible scenario. If those people weren't 90 IQ sand people.

In reality we both know it was Israel.