>Place steel core 5.56 into 7.62 sabots
>Load sabot into .32 SW long cartridges
>load the cartridges into double action revolver
Thoughts? Would it be useful for anything besides flexing on cast lead normies?
Place steel core 5.56 into 7.62 sabots
Xavier Reed
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Elijah Ward
Sabots for 223 really suck is why
Jack Allen
>Would it be useful for anything besides flexing on cast lead normies?
Yeah, it's very useful for getting rid of unwanted cash.
Logan Miller
There's no real point. You won't be getting them going fast enough to do much of anything.
Maybe if you had a really stoutly built .327 Fed Mag and cooked up some pissin hot handloads you could get enough velocity to do something interesting, but I doubt it. And even then you'd have shit-tier accuracy; .22 cal sabots blow.
Gavin Jackson
I actually just ran some numbers in Quickload for the hell of it, assuming a 10" barrel.
With .32 S&W long you'd only get 1300 fps loading to max pressure and assuming the projectile plus the sabot weighed 60 grains. Total energy about 230 ft-lb. Weaksauce.
If you did it in .327 Fed Mag you could push it to about 1900 fps, or 486 ft-lb, which is not exactly weaksauce, but crappy for a highly customized load in a huge revolver.
John Thompson
Considering someone tried loading pulled SS109's in the .22TCM boltgun (which has a 24" barrel) at thermonuclear levels and it didn't do shit to an NIJ III plate (which regular M855 fucks up and M193 penetrates), I doubt you could get enough velocity from any of the common handgun calibers+sabot to matter.
Ryder Richardson
Interdasting. Cant say im not surpised that I cant use my grand pappys problem solver to penetrate plates. Thank you for the input. Would there be any cartridge that a sabot would actually be useful in?
Lucas Miller
Theoretically you could build enough velocity to matter with some of the big ultramag revolver calibers and sufficient barrel length, but sabots aren't commercially available for them. Same with wildcatting them into bottlenecked rounds.
Alternatively, something like a sabot in 7.62x25 at proof-load levels or loading straight in something like a .22TCM at proof-load levels with a high quality true-AP bullet (pulled M995 or similar) might do it.
The .22TCM manages 2800fps with a 40gr softpoint from the 24" boltgun at factory pressures. If you load long and single-feed and load hot enough you're popping primers you could probably get 2800fps with a pulled M995, which should get decent armor pen, but that'd be both dangerous and damaging to the gun.
Dominic Jenkins
Super overly complex cartridge with a bunch of potential failure points
Why? I understand wanting to sabot. But this is ridiculous.
Jayden Collins
Just for shits and grins I tried it with .460 S&W magnum. This time assuming a 12" barrel and 70 grains total weight (projo + sabot) loaded just under max pressure with an unusually fast powder for that cartridge and got 3700 fps. I have no idea how that compares to the velocity the TCM dude got.
Luke Wilson
You're loading sabots, just do what that one meme user says in all these threads and load a 6mm hardened tool steel, cone point grub screw. No need to worry about the bore.
Wyatt White
Significantly faster. Factory ammo thru that boltgun is 2800, a bullet half again heavier would realistically be in the 2500-2600 range even at higher pressures.
The S&W mags also have a significantly higher max pressure than the TCM.
Ethan Walker
The real problem with the .32 S&W long is that it's a really old cartridge with a very low pressure rating. You can't do a whole lot with it in an old gun because of that pressure rating. That said, if you found a really strong revolver like a Manurhin MR73 in that caliber then you could get a lot more oomph out of it.
This guy knows.
Caleb Wilson
>The S&W mags also have a significantly higher max pressure than the TCM.
Yeah, that load I just played with was 60k psi.
Joseph Gomez
Yup. I'm not comfortable going over an estimated 40k PSI in my boltgun with .22tcm. My hottest load, 9.6gr of lil'gun with a 40gr fbhp Varmageddon, chronos at 2860 from the TCM bolter. And that flattens FGMM primers, and requires modified mags since I seat long.
Chase Miller
>.32 SW long
>Not .327 or .30 carbine
... why?
But yeah, you could do it. You'd have a better chance of punching through soft armor than with pretty much anything else you can put in a .32 S&W Long. Note that even plain ol' FMJs at subsonic velociities can punch bare-minimum IIIA through the power of sectional density:
youtube.com
However, if you're picking this cartridge because you already have an old .32 to play with, please don't. That gun, no matter how shabby, deserves better than the inevitable end of this road.
No loading data exists, so good fucking luck keeping it to the right pressure. Blackpowder revolver cartridges run at such low pressures that all your usual "pressure signs" are useless, you're way past proof load levels (and destroying your gun with every shot) before any noticeable changes.
But SS109 is crap for armor penetration, the tip is just mild steel, and not very much of it.
Actual AP bullets with a long, hard penetrator do better, and especially ones with tungsten carbide penetrators (M995 etc.) can be effective at relatively low velocities; if 10mm can push a 60gr bullet to 2400fps from handguns or 2800fps from carbines (Liberty Civil Defense), a 70gr load should not be far behind, and should be adequate for level 3 at short range.
The area between a .224 bullet and a .400 bore is about 2.5x the area between a .224 bullet and a .308 bore. Since your normal "accelerator"-type .224-to-.308 sabots are 6 grains, 15 grains should be close for a .224-to-.400 equivalent. This leaves 55gr for the bullet, for reference M995 is only 52gr.
Benjamin Lewis
Yeah, the problem is getting a bullet with a hardened steel or tungsten penetrator. SS109 is the best readily available.
Andrew Morgan
That's not hard at all with some basic machine shop skills.
Jackson Martinez
>Sabots for 223 really suck
Could better sabots be 3D printed, say by SLA?
Gabriel Martinez
That would probably make them worse. 3D printing produces lower quality parts than injection molding. Lower precision, worse surface finish, weaker material.
Jacob Morris
>Thoughts? Would it be useful for anything besides flexing on cast lead normies?
Being the solution to a fictional murder mystery
Jayden Brown
to add though: the program testing the 223 sabots is something like 30 years old at this point. I'm sure advances in FEM (for better design) and better polymers, like PEEK, might solve the problem.